Anti cycling school policy

Breezer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Of course its about control: school is an institution for children and control is necessary.

And its not a new rule, simply enforcement of one which the young person and their parents knew about when they enrolled.

School is also supposed to be a place where people are educated, including in how to look after their bodies, and in how to question authority in a reasonable way, and contribute and shape the society in which they live.

Of course there needs to be some control over children, but really this is nuts. We’re talking about a young woman wearing appropriate clothes for one situation, arriving at her destination, changing into clothes appropriate to the next situation, and wanting to not do so at the side of a road in all weathers. It’s not exactly free for all anarchy.

No harm in the student raising the issue. Although you’re right, there is a bit of an institutional mindset by the looks of things, so I think parents will more than likely need to get involved if it’s to go anywhere.

cletus

It's not anarchy, but it is about implementing rules across the board. It's very difficult in a school situation to make allowances in the rules for one student, or a specific group of students.

Kids at that age have a finely honed sense of right and wrong, and if this girl is allowed to l break rules that were, apparently, in place prior to this, you invite a host of other kids attempting the same because "she was allowed to, sir"

Uniforms are a constant battleground, and if kids see any opportunity to skirt the uniform rules they will.

It's one of these cases where a rule that is implemented for all students doesn't suit a very small group, but that's life, unfortunately.

magicbastarder

It's not rocket science to put in a clear cut exception for cyclists though.

cletus

magicbastarder wrote: »

It's not rocket science to put in a clear cut exception for cyclists though.

In my experience, regardless of how well worded and explicit the exemption would be, you'll have parents and students in arguing the odds that if so and so can do it, my Johnny can too.

It's not worth the hassle from an administrative standpoint, so the easiest thing is a blanket rule that everyone wears the full uniform all the time

Breezer

magicbastarder wrote: »

It's not rocket science to put in a clear cut exception for cyclists though.

The rule appears to be that uniforms must be worn on the grounds. Allow all students to arrive to school in good time and immediately change if necessary. It’s students’ responsibility to ensure they have enough time to do this before class. Done.

World gone mad! There’s a childhood obesity problem in western countries and this numb-nuts is worried about the clothes people are wearing when cycling- what a 24 carrot plonker.

saccades

This would piss me right off - proper go around and makes things worse.

As much as my kids school is a pisstake with the number of rules, they class the gym kit as school uniform.


My missus doesn't let me talk to the teachers though.

Wishbone Ash

Breezer wrote: »

..Allow all students to arrive to school in good time and immediately change if necessary...

But they ideally have to access a school building to change. Therefore they have already entered the school grounds. It wouldn't be appropriate to change at the school gates.

Bubbaclaus

magicbastarder wrote: »

Sounds like she doesn't need parent teacher meetings either?
We all know that a parent ringing would have much chance of being given a fair hearing than a pupil objecting.

In my school the parent teacher meetings stopped once the pupil turned 18. At that stage they were legally an adult themselves so what would there be a parent teacher meeting for?

I assumed that was the same everywhere.

Wishbone Ash

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

In my school the parent teacher meetings stopped once the pupil turned 18. At that stage they were legally an adult themselves so what would there be a parent teacher meeting for?

I assumed that was the same everywhere.

When I applied for my first real job, the application form had to be signed by a parent/guardian even though I was over 18. A girl who started with me was married with children and had to get hers signed too.

spurious

Go back to school when they are open.
In a calm manner, ask for an appointment with the Principal.
Discuss the issue like adults.

Flickerfusion

Sounds like the usual standard of petty ridiculousness that goes on in Irish schools.

We used to have a teacher standing there looking to see if anyone has a printed T-shirt that might be vaguely visible through your shirt.

I also remember being made take my socks off and spend a day with none on because they were striped and I got endless abuse over stubble, which I wasn’t able to help in 5th and 6th year. I’ve pale skin and dark hair and no matter how much I shaved one teacher kept giving me hell about it.

I wore suede black shoes to school because I couldn’t get anything else easily as I had big feet and the principal handed me shoe polish and made me coat the suede which wrecked my shoes and I only had those or runners as we didn’t have the budget and the aim was that I could use them for both school and casual wear.

I also went to school on the continent too and frankly, Irish schools are run like prisons in comparison. OK they don’t hit you anymore but they certainly were a world of petty rules, lines and arbitrary, often grossly unfair enforcement. We seem to have never really gotten over the authoritarian approach to schooling.

Sorry Ireland but the schools here are very weird and most of you don’t realise it because you’ve never been to school anywhere else.

The cycling thing doesn’t surprise me at all. There are plenty in the education system here who would only care that the uniform is worn correctly. Health, the environment, personal safety, education etc is all secondary to that objective.

Welcome to boot camp!

magicbastarder

I was the first person in our school to wear a bike helmet. It once disappeared from my bag in German class and ended up in the head of the class joker and was confiscated. I went up at the end of the class to ask for it back and was refused because 'you know school policy is not too allow cycle helmets into class' . To be fair, me laughing at the teacher for saying that didn't help my cause.

Flickerfusion

And the lesson learnt from that: humour is banned? Rules will be enforced entirely arbitrarily and unfairly?

You’d wonder sometimes.

What gets me on the transport issues here is how dramatically bad the impact of schools going back is every year.

They flatly refuse to engage on issues like proper drop off points, school cycling schemes and school transit.

I mean if you look at the cluster of schools in the middle of Cork City, all of which are a short walk to public transit, why is there an hour long traffic jam through all the streets leading to them every week day morning 9 months a year?

There’s talk but nothing is ever done to address the situation, yet the same schools will be lauding all sorts of environmental policies like recycling.

karlitob

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Of course its about control: school is an institution for children and control is necessary.

And its not a new rule, simply enforcement of one which the young person and their parents knew about when they enrolled.

Crazy comment.

It’s a school. A place of learning, a place to enjoy, a place that you meet your friends, some for life perhaps.

Children aren’t a different species you know. If I can change into my uniform at work after I cycle, then why can’t this adult (or any child). My boss needs ‘control’ also.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Sounds like the usual standard of petty ridiculousness that goes on in Irish schools.

We used to have a teacher standing there looking to see if anyone has a printed T-shirt that might be vaguely visible through your shirt.

I also remember being made take my socks off and spend a day with none on because they were striped and I got endless abuse over stubble, which I wasn’t able to help in 5th and 6th year. I’ve pale skin and dark hair and no matter how much I shaved one teacher kept giving me hell about it.

I wore suede black shoes to school because I couldn’t get anything else easily as I had big feet and the principal handed me shoe polish and made me coat the suede which wrecked my shoes and I only had those or runners as we didn’t have the budget and the aim was that I could use them for both school and casual wear.

I also went to school on the continent too and frankly, Irish schools are run like prisons in comparison. OK they don’t hit you anymore but they certainly were a world of petty rules, lines and arbitrary, often grossly unfair enforcement. We seem to have never really gotten over the authoritarian approach to schooling.

Sorry Ireland but the schools here are very weird and most of you don’t realise it because you’ve never been to school anywhere else.

The cycling thing doesn’t surprise me at all. There are plenty in the education system here who would only care that the uniform is worn correctly. Health, the environment, personal safety, education etc is all secondary to that objective.

Welcome to boot camp!

May I ask which specific country?

I lived in the Netherlands. I knew people who attended their version of secondary school.
No uniforms and teachers were addressed on a first name basis. You could sip on a water bottle throughout class.

Chaos did not ensue.

The sky didn't fall down.

Sipping water would lead to confiscation of it in my school. Single use bottles were binned immediately and reusable ones were kept until a parent picked it up.

Over 18's still had to get parents permission for absence and notes sent home for missing homework.

Hurrache

karlitob wrote: »

Crazy comment.

It’s a school. A place of learning, a place to enjoy, a place that you meet your friends, some for life perhaps.

Children aren’t a different species you know. If I can change into my uniform at work after I cycle, then why can’t this adult (or any child). My boss needs ‘control’ also.

Formal wear in my office, those that cycle always get changed when arriving at and when leaving the building. Anarchists so we are.

Wishbone Ash

Flickerfusion wrote: »

...I also remember being made take my socks off and spend a day with none on because they were striped and I got endless abuse over stubble...

Proper order. Legs should be shaved daily. And your socks were probably the wrong height as well as being striped.

buffalo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But they ideally have to access a school building to change. Therefore they have already entered the school grounds. It wouldn't be appropriate to change at the school gates.

As I heard recently, 'be the change you want to ban in the world'. If this were my workplace, I'd stop right outside the gates, strip down as much as my dignity would allow and then change into the uniform, all the while taking my time about it. If anyone questioned it, I would say that my boss/principal said I had to change outside the gates.

Obviously this is not always be an appropriate form of protest, and anyway the next rule would probably be that uniform must be worn on the way to school.

P_1

Fostering car dependency based on an aesthetic. That is just so depressingly Irish and predictable

magicbastarder

do schools have complete autonomy on the rules they set? obviously, within the bounds of the law.

Flickerfusion

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

May I ask which specific country?

I lived in the Netherlands. I knew people who attended their version of secondary school.
No uniforms and teachers were addressed on a first name basis. You could sip on a water bottle throughout class.

Chaos did not ensue.

The sky didn't fall down.

Sipping water would lead to confiscation of it in my school. Single use bottles were binned immediately and reusable ones were kept until a parent picked it up.

Over 18's still had to get parents permission for absence and notes sent home for missing homework.

Both Belgium and France.

Went from being treated like a young adult in France, to an all-male Irish catholic school which was one hell of a culture shock I can assure you!

It felt like a sort of depressing, very patronising, highly religious version of Hogwarts designed by a terrible architect, forced to wear an ugly uniform and surrounded by only guys. French secondary school feels more 'grown up'. You take responsibility for a lot more things yourself and you aren't being herded around the place. I found Irish schools seemed to treat you like as if you were a complete idiot who wasn't capable of doing anything.

E.g. I remember in 4th year we weren't allowed to have sharp scissors in an art class! I'm not kidding. The rumour was that some guy had accidentally cut himself and then tried to sue.

All the rules about uniforms. Not being allowed to change seats. Being shouted at basically *all* the time. We even had a deputy principal who liked people to walk around the corridors as if it was a traffic system and used to give people detention if they walked on the wrong side of his one-way system.

I spent a year begging my parents to let me live with my cousins in France. Absolutely hated school here.

The opposite applies when you get to university. Irish universities are very easy going and you seem to direct your own studies and ask lots of questions. French universities are extremely top-down and you more or less transcribe everything your lecturer says.

If only Irish schools could adopt a bit of the universities' philosophies!

Also in both countries cycling and using public transport was hugely encouraged to get to school. I don't remember very many people ever being delivered to the door by car. Whereas here, you'd 6'3" rugby players being dropped to the door by mammy and handed a packed lunch.

AndrewJRenko

P_1 wrote: »

Fostering car dependency based on an aesthetic. That is just so depressingly Irish and predictable

And fostering dependence for 18 year olds on their parents for lifts, instead of fostering independent, healthy modes of travel.

P_1

magicbastarder wrote: »

do schools have complete autonomy on the rules they set? obviously, within the bounds of the law.

That's one of those things that's always been assumed they do but has yet to be tested in law. Nobody has gone so far as to bring a case to set precedence yet

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

The school has a "green" ethos.
It's bizzarely hypocritical.

Breezer

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But they ideally have to access a school building to change. Therefore they have already entered the school grounds. It wouldn't be appropriate to change at the school gates.

This was my point. Although for the sake of practicality, allowing a student to change in the toilet is probably fine. I’ve done that hundreds of times in various places. But the notion of not letting them cross the school gate without being in full uniform, for fear of offending someone, is slightly bizarre.

smacl

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

The school has a "green" ethos.
It's bizzarely hypocritical.

Perhaps contact your local green TD so pointing out that the school appears to have adopted a strong anti-cyclist policy and would they make contact with the school. Having been through this nonsense with my own daughter cycling to school in the past, my experience as a parent dealing with the headmistress was that it was a waste of time. School uniform with a long skirt made cycling awkward and no proper gear made it impractical in bad weather.

If you are meeting the staff and looking for a compromise, I'd suggest going for a change that allows cyclists arrive in the school sports kit with appropriate rain gear in wet weather. Chances are that they'll stonewall you anyway but worth a try.

Peteer

punisher5112 wrote: »

No big deal if there is an issue go to a school where there is no uniform.

That's a really helpful comment, the student is entering their final year (plus any others in other years) - this is not the solution. I's a unfair ask.

Peteer

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

The school's principal sent out an annual news letter which they usually do every summer to recap the previous year's events, make announcements and clarify new rules etc and thank and acknowledge people who deserve it.

First step is to write a polite reply explaining how this new rule impacts on those who cycle to school and ask for that to be considered and request a considered written response in return to the points raised.

From there if the response is positive fair enough and if not then use this as the basis for debate and negotiation. I would not be accepting it myself and would fight hard on same. Be willing to compromise and respect what the school is trying to achieve. I wouldn't mind for a final year even it it finished with the school turning a blind eye to compromise or my ignoring of this rule.

magicbastarder

what colour is the school uniform/school coat?
if it's dark, that's a massive negotiating point to use. because you can easily argue that despite claims to the contrary, it effectively amounts to a ban on cycling, especially in winter.