The Last of Us 2 - SPOILERS!!!

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

Watched it this morning. It's their most liked and disliked video. They caught a tide of hatred for it. You'd want a thick skin to post your TLOU2 opinion online.
I think the game itself did a lot right and did a lot wrong but ultimately if I want to be miserable I can do something else.

FYP: "You would want a thick skin to post any opinion online."

The Raging Bile Duct

gimli2112 wrote: »

Watched it this morning. It's their most liked and disliked video. They caught a tide of hatred for it. You'd want a thick skin to post your TLOU2 opinion online.
I think the game itself did a lot right and did a lot wrong but ultimately if I want to be miserable I can do something else.

I guess I'm happy enough in life that I can take a bit of misery in the art I consume.

Edit: Actually, consume sounds wrong. I'm not fecking eating it... the art I appreciate?

gimli2112

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

I guess I'm happy enough in life that I can take a bit of misery in the art I consume.

ouch that hurts at a personal level

Zero-Cool

Hands down, my favourite channel on Youtube and they nailed this one.

Penn

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Hands down, my favourite channel on Youtube and they nailed this one.

Heard of their channel numerous times but never bothered watching until seeing this video last night, so checked out some of their other ones. Have to admit they're very good.

The Naked Gun bit in the video was genius

Zero-Cool

Penn wrote: »

Heard of their channel numerous times but never bothered watching until seeing this video last night, so checked out some of their other ones. Have to admit they're very good.

The Naked Gun bit in the video was genius

They roped me in with their Office and Always Sunny memes but their vids always makes me laugh which is a nice change for Youtubers these days.

This is a good watch with Troy and Neil, some of the background that went into decision making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFLtbCf4L60

The Raging Bile Duct

gimli2112 wrote: »

ouch that hurts at a personal level

Sorry, it's probably coming across harsher than I mean to. I really don't mind art being bleak or despairing and I can appreciate something that lasts with me for a while because the outcome wasn't what I was expecting or what I really wanted to happen. Movies like The Mist, A Simple Plan, Martyrs, Requiem for a Dream and Kill List or in novels like The Wasp Factory, We Need to Talk About Kevin and Betty Blue (I'll admit, I still haven't got around to watching the film adaptation because the book's ending was so upsetting). While all that stuff is food for thought and can be viewed as miserable to different degrees, it wouldn't bring me down or affect my general mood.

I'll be honest, comparatively speaking to some of the things I've watched and read before, The Last of Us 2 is quite tame.

gimli2112

that's ok I wasn't really upset. I can only give my personal opinion and that's that I felt like **** on completing TLOU2. This stayed with me for longer than I liked. I can combat this with alcohol but this leads to other problems. It's just I didn't like the way it made me feel and for that reason it was ultimately an unjoyable experience, for me.
We need to talk about Kevin was one of the dullest books I ever read until the end blew me away. That stayed with me a while too but at least Joel was still alive so I had that.

The stuff you watch is actually pretty bleak. You should probably watch something like Frozen every now and then.

I actually started my second play through a few days ago.
I actually could not watch the cutscences again. Well the ones at the opening few hours anyway.
I wanted to have some relax time. Watching someone get murdered brutally with a golf club is not something that makes me relax.

Zero-Cool

Everywhere I look...I see him.

gimli2112

ND is that kid you knew in primary school that told you

Santa wasn't real

Retr0gamer

Art should be challenging. Just like the first game.... unless you somehow think it was a happy ending :pac:

gimli2112

That's fine Retro and if I want to be miserable I can go to a f***ing museum. I don't expect this kind of pain in my entertainment.
It is a pity we couldn't have had a happy ending like TLOU.

I personally thought there was nothing much happy about the ending of TLOU1 either!

It was a good ending though like the second game IMO

It didn't leave on a cliffhanger.

gimli2112

ah yeah I get that. I loved the ending of TLOU and was happy for Joel and Ellie as it was. I understand the moral quandaries of how it ended and what was done to get there, I just chose to ignore them. No-one's going to convince me I shouldn't be happy how it ended.

Retr0gamer

gimli2112 wrote: »

That's fine Retro and if I want to be miserable I can go to a f***ing museum. I don't expect this kind of pain in my entertainment.
It is a pity we couldn't have had a happy ending like TLOU.

There's a difference between art and entertainment, although they aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think TLOU 2 was ever trying to be a fully enjoyable experience for the player. Nothing wrong with that though. Look at Silent Hill 2, one of the most depressing games ever made yet an amazing experience and masterclass of narrative.

I'm not convinced that TLOU 2 is entirely successful but glad that there are still developers out there not afraid to challenge the player in a big budget game that isn't just pandering to a market. But then as a big fan of the ultimate fun power trip that is Ace Combat 7, there's room for both and nothing wrong with preferring one over the other. And despite TLOU 2 making you feel awful I hope you thought it was a worthwhile experience.

You mean the happy ending in TLOU where lots of people died, humanity is still screwed and Joel and Ellie's relationship is ruined?

The Raging Bile Duct

gimli2112 wrote: »

That's fine Retro and if I want to be miserable I can go to a f***ing museum. I don't expect this kind of pain in my entertainment.
It is a pity we couldn't have had a happy ending like TLOU.

You go to a museum to be miserable?

gimli2112

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And despite TLOU 2 making you feel awful I hope you thought it was a worthwhile experience.

this is the bit I'm conflicted about, on balance I have to say I would prefer it hadn't been made and yet do understand why it is admired.
Ultimately I'm not consumed by the issue and enjoy the debate.

I would have been one of the ones clamoring for a sequel but ended up wishing it hadn't happened. The second play through has been bludgeoning this point home.

Retr0gamer

I'm not done with it but I'm on the didn't need a sequel bandwagon as well. Thought the original was the perfect ending and did enough to show that whatever was to happen next for these characters would not be happy. It said everything it needed to say and didn't need a blood soaked revenge story to convey that. It feels unnecessary and this type of revenge story with the same implications for the characters has been done to death. It's the Searchers with Zombies (and even then the zombies feel like window dressing).

However I'm not going to say that Naughty Dog shouldn't have made this game and taken a stab at it.

_CreeD_

Just finished it. And...yeah...it was ok. About a 6/10 for me. I think from a pure gameplay perspective it fails badly for the first Ellie act, the content and pacing is weak with a few hour long stints of not doing anything that feels meaningful exacerbated by so little character interaction. It's flavourless by the numbers explore and kill. Shortly after the great intro set I stopped caring about why I was there and what I was working towards beyond simply moving through each level. It became incredibly boring. The Abby act was much better; level design, cut scenes, motivation and pacing were on par with TLoU 1 imho, despite the fact we are set up to hate her early on. I really get the impression that her content was either worked by a better sub team or more likely was done first and Ellie's added afterwards (that pointless open-world-lite part at the start of Seattle for Ellie reinforces this imho).
It definitely should have ended at the Farm cutscene, to the point where Ellie sits on the tractor with JJ. Everything after that just forced me from frustrated to infuriated and begging for the credits to roll. Pretentious pointless bollox where the team felt they had so much more to say when they had nothing. It all leads to a repeat of earlier gameplay and a pathetic scripted fight where low and behold this time Ellie wins and lets Abby go instead of vice-versa - my involvement here?...I got to press square a few times.....woohoo....

As for the emotional impact being discussed as art versus enjoyment I think they seriously missed the mark. The intro setup was emotionally charged and well handled but from there it just goes downhill. You need sympathetic characters in a game, you have to want someone to win (or achieve their goal even if it means sacrifice) and there was no one here I cared enough about to actually want that. Ellie just came off as a self centered spoiled idiot that got worse over time, a grade-A asshole at best to friends and a psychopath to anyone else. Her journey here is so forced I could not relate to her at all, and morality aside she loses and has to beg for her loved-ones' lives twice and then still goes on to try and kill the person who ultimately grew emotionally and let her go, she is metaphorically, morally and literally a Loser.
Abby was a better arc but again you start with such a shocking event the only way she could go was up. I can deal with tragedy, I love games that make you feel but again to really care I need to want the characters to succeed (even if they don't) and here that was missing. Attempts at what I think are events to really emotionally impact fell short (again excluding the intro set), when the only interaction I have is to press Square again to progress what is essentially another scripted cut-scene then it doesn't matter how brutal it is I'm just not connected to it. I've felt far more just playing Dear Esther for 60 minutes than this overly long AAA behometh.

One review I watched summed this up perfectly imho in comparing it to The Last Jedi. Fans of it tout Rian's brilliance in subverting expectations and cutting out the cliches, that this 'challenged' viewers. I had no problem with that, bring on something new, but I felt the movie was **** because it didn't replace anything it cut with new or better (among other problems). The same here, yes they subverted my expectations but they didn't provide anything on-par or better to replace them, and subversion for it's own sake is utterly pointless, it's just subtraction.

I'm not a big replayer but I did play TLoU 1 twice, and was halfway through a 3rd when 2 installed. I am 100% sure I will not be playing 2 again.

Zero-Cool

Ha, cool.

https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Yates/status/1283949542539513858?s=19

Zero-Cool

Aaaaaand they ruined the baby for me :pac:

https://twitter.com/Marianne_Hayden/status/1284204319940636672?s=19

RasTa

Just finished it there, bought on release day.

Zero spoilers about anything before hand.

Thought it became a bit of a chore in the end, reminded me of Uncharted 4 in lots of parts. I was glad when it was over and hope that's the end of the Last of Us world.

Damien360

RasTa wrote: »

Just finished it there, bought on release day.

Zero spoilers about anything before hand.

Thought it became a bit of a chore in the end, reminded me of Uncharted 4 in lots of parts. I was glad when it was over and hope that's the end of the Last of Us world.

Finished it a few days ago. I loved it. The first trip to the farm near the end and I thought it was over and I was sure it was all set up for a sequel. But I enjoyed the whole next section. I didn’t play on hardest and I did a lot of sneaking around and searching. Avoided all spoilers and if I got stuck, didn’t resort to google for help. I’ll give it another play through without any sneaking around and just attack to see how it goes.

RasTa

Oh and like the first one, this is the best looking game out on the PS4

ThePott

Did a bit of a review of the game, found it kinda hard to sum up my thoughts in writing. Found it to be a lot better than most people but definitely has some major problems with the story, the structure in particular. I go into more detail in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntpxD_pyDQk

RasTa

I traded mine into CEX 10mins after I finished it, want to pick up Ghost of Tsushima. Although this is the first game I've finished since The Last Guardian which was a 10/10.

First Last of Us also a 10/10 and this was a 7/10

FrostyJack

I finally finished it during the week, the experience was a bit tarnished by stupidly clicking into this thread by accident and seeing Abby lives, so all the rest of the game there was less danger, at one stage I thought Ellie would get her and then Lev would kill her. Overall I really enjoyed i, visuals, motion capture and sound were brilliant. Like most games I saved up all my super weapons, never fired an explosive arrow and minor use of MP5 and explosives which I will make up for in a replay. Like most people I was not happy to jump into Abby's skin, maybe a hour or so to see her side of the story but was so annoying losing all they unlocks and gear to start from scratch, to go through it all again. I understand why they did it but the initial emotion you get seeing Joel's demise, it is neutered by becoming her and becomes a grind until you meet Lev. I am not sure this is a missed opportunity to do a really amazing by the numbers story or the fact of these quirks it made it more interesting. Definitely a must play game, unless you are bigot, which means you will find it very grating, especially if you hate a girl who is muscular and a solider, "why wasn't she a just a receptionist like a good girl". Cant wait for TLOU3 set for release in 2145

heebusjeebus

Finished it this morning. Thought the last half dragged but I enjoyed the opportunity of playing as Abby again. I just found redoing the 3 days a slog as I just wanted to see how the showdown between her and Ellie went down.
I mainly enjoyed it. Controls a lot better than the original but I preferred the story they tried to tell in the original.

For the platinum, can I just do the NG+ and make sure I get all remaining collectables or do I have to do chapter select on my save file and then do NG+?

listermint

Finished it yesterday, 10/10 for me.


Will add no more. Just excellent game and excellent storyline especially the irony at the end

of connection to Joel via the guitar versus that connection being severed completely on all fronts.