What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Foreigner here, came here 10 years ago, is my opinion accepted?
In the past 10 years there were ample opportunities to be affected by racism but it never happened to me, or to my family.
If anecdotical evidence is ok, why not accept mine as well?

Had anybody not accepted your anecdotal evidence?
Do you accept that others have been victims of racist behaviours?

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

maybe first he should produce the claims he makes

I downplayed the claims made by someone who said he was Brazilian (but white), and I also downplayed ArthurDayne's post about xenophobia in Ireland...

So, yeah.. I have downplayed the experiences of others in regards to general xenophobia in Ireland, but then, I find that the claim of racism or xenophobia is used far too often to excuse the behavior of foreign groups in attracting negative attention/behavior. Not always, but it seems to pop up as the go-to reason for anything bad happening to foreigners. (like I could say that my last fight in China was because of racism.. but I could also admit that I shouldn't have repeatedly flirted with the Chinese guys girlfriend, even though I knew it was pissing him off.).

Can't believe I'm kinda defending Bubblypop.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Had anybody not accepted your anecdotal evidence?
Do you accept that others have been victims of racist behaviours?

Yes I accept, I also believe that actual racism is so incredibly rare in Ireland.
Most of the reported incidents are due to scumbags being scumbags and going for the low hanging fruit and not actual racism.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

because it wont suit his agenda.

Pretty sure bubblypop is a women

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Yes I accept, I also believe that actual racism is so incredibly rare in Ireland.
Most of the reported incidents are due to scumbags being scumbags and going for the low hanging fruit and not actual racism.

While I understand what you are trying to say, if someone calls another person a black ****** ****, does it matter that the aggressor can be nice to other foreign people or that they don't discriminate against all black people?
They may not even have been anyway racist against others previously, but by calling someone that name, which they know to be a racist slur, then that act is, racist.

Someone doesn't have to be a neo Nazi white supremacist to behave in a racist manner.

Cordell

I think calling me a dirty foreigner, calling a black person the n word and calling a redhead a ginger cnut should be treated all the same.
Real racism is not these words, it's much worse.

Justin Credible Darts

Cordell wrote: »

I think calling me a dirty foreigner, calling a black person the n word and calling a redhead a ginger cnut should be treated all the same.
Real racism is not these words, it's much worse.

if a dub called a cork person a cork **** and called a polish person a polish****, people would call the comment against the pole racist, but just ignorance against the cork man.


in both cases its ignorance, not solely one racist and one not.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

I think calling me a dirty foreigner, calling a black person the n word and calling a redhead a ginger cnut should be treated all the same.
Real racism is not these words, it's much worse.

I have been insulted because I wasn't born in this country.
I have also been to Asia, where they were quite racist against me.
Did these things bother me? Nope, I'm well able to look after myself, and I really don't care if they discriminate against me in Asia.
Does it make those things less racist? No, they were still racist and the people engaging in that behaviour were engaging in racist behaviours.

What in your opinion is real racism?

Cordell

What in your opinion is real racism?

Real harm and discrimination.
Getting called names is not that.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Real harm and discrimination.
Getting called names is not that.

In your opinion.
Being called names that are a racist slur, are in fact racist behaviour.
Now, you don't have to be upset or annoyed by those names, but they are still of a racist nature.
I don't care if someone calls me a racist slur, it still is racist.

Justin Credible Darts

Cordell wrote: »

Real harm and discrimination.
Getting called names is not that.

my wife is of mixed race and growing up it was only name calling by other kids, her brothers got it more as boys are worse than girls at a younger age.


She viewed it as ignorance, not racism.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

In your opinion.
Being called names that are a racist slur, are in fact racist behaviour.
Now, you don't have to be upset or annoyed by those names, but they are still of a racist nature.
I don't care if someone calls me a racist slur, it still is racist.

Well, that's the proble, the bar for what constitutes racism is too low and to inconsistent. Most of the times a slur or insult is just that, even if there are words that refer to the race.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

my wife is of mixed race and growing up it was only name calling by other kids, her brothers got it more as boys are worse than girls at a younger age.


She viewed it as ignorance, not racism.

Well, kids are mean and ignorant. If it's not the race then it's the fat, or the glasses, or the smart or the teacher's pet.

In any case, in Europe and particularly here in Ireland there is no history of racism, so now people go out of their way to see racism where there's none.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

In your opinion.
Being called names that are a racist slur, are in fact racist behaviour.
Now, you don't have to be upset or annoyed by those names, but they are still of a racist nature.
I don't care if someone calls me a racist slur, it still is racist.

You do realise that (plus your previous posts) makes just about everything racist, irrespective of context, or intent? If it's claimed as racist, then it is racist. That is incredibly open to being abused.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

In any case, in Europe and particularly here in Ireland there is no history of racism, so now people go out of their way to see racism where there's none.

There is a history of racism in both Ireland and Europe, but it's not the same as the modern perception towards racism, which IMO comes mostly from American influences.

However, I think we're facing something of a one-sided perception towards racism, where the behavior of "minority" groups is not factored into any kind of equation. It's the extension of the belief that victims are completely free of blame or responsibility for how the problems arose. Victim blaming has become something of an insult now.. and it matches up well with the claims of racism. Anything that is perceived as being negative can be ratcheted up as racism now, and any suggestion that it's not related to racism, must mean that someone is victim blaming.

It's interesting that there is little expectation that racism be curtailed in non-western nations, but it's an absolute shocker that it happens here... although then again, excuses are constantly found for non-whites who engage in racism towards other non-whites or to whites (while in western nations).

rgossip30

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Strongly disagree.

why so many likes ??

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

why so many likes ??

Because many disagree that multiculturalism is a good thing...

rgossip30

Hhhhh wrote: »

Because many disagree that multiculturalism is a good thing...

This site has really changed in the last few years it was very left wing dominated.

archfi

rgossip30 wrote: »

This site has really changed in the last few years it was very left wing dominated.

I think you may find a lot of left leaning posters agreeing a robust, sane immigration/asylum/refugee policy is eminently sensible - not so many of the 'modern' lot.

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

This site has really changed in the last few years it was very left wing dominated.

Not really. I suspect the base range of opinions hasn't changed that much. At least, I can remember similar kinds of attitudes when I first joined, especially on the Politics or Humanities forums. (the Humanities forum used to be jumping more than CA)

The difference is this need to classify (box in) posters as left or right, without consideration of the huge range of opinions floating around the center. Most people, I've found, tend drift to either side depending on the topic. However, there is an attempt by many to push posters (usually those who don't agree with the many) into one or another camp.

I find it very American TBH. It's a reflection of their own political attitudes of there being only two sides to choose from. Whereas, traditionally, Irish people and Europeans could float around, changing their views as they aged. However, now, on boards, and elsewhere there is this demand that people be either left or right.. TBH I find it very tiresome, and childish. This Black/White view of things. Either you're with us or against us, and that extends beyond the current topic... if you disagree on this topic, then you're wrong on everything else.

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

You do realise that (plus your previous posts) makes just about everything racist, irrespective of context, or intent? If it's claimed as racist, then it is racist. That is incredibly open to being abused.

she moaned she was insulted because she was not from this country.


she could be from this country and still get insulted.
And what happened to her in Asia has nothing to do with this thread

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

This site has really changed in the last few years it was very left wing dominated.

I don't think it has. When I first joined boards around 2008 the hot topics were the financial crash, abortion, SSM. If these issues were to come up again today you'd see many on boards leaning to the left. Most here are pro choice, pro SSM, in favour of regulated banks. What's happened in the preceding years is a lot of those issues have been won so to speak, and the more crazier elements of left wing politics, a lot of imported from America, have become the hot topics which many people disagree with. Right-wingers and conservatives are still the minority on boards.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

she moaned she was insulted because she was not from this country.


she could be from this country and still get insulted.
And what happened to her in Asia has nothing to do with this thread

No, I didn't 'moan' . I stated that I have had abusive things said to me because of the country I was born in. That is just fact.
Why would you downplay my experience?
I'm not even foreign.
I pointed out what happened in Asia, as many posters on here have talked about being in the receiving end of racism, so I also posted my own experience in asia. Now, I also pointed out those things didn't bother me.
So what is your issue with my factual post?

Experience_day

archfi wrote: »

I think you may find a lot of left leaning posters agreeing a robust, sane immigration/asylum/refugee policy is eminently sensible - not so many of the 'modern' lot.

I would consider myself fairly centre (skewed left) and view a sensible immigration policy as a logical thing...

Especially when we see our neighbours handling it badly, it would be sensible to pause and see how to best do it, rather than the current situation where a bunch of grifters are stirring up tensions and we end up with an unhappy populace. And yes I do think people are becoming actually unhappy.

1800_Ladladlad

Cordell wrote: »

I think calling me a dirty foreigner, calling a black person the n word and calling a redhead a ginger cnut should be treated all the same.
Real racism is not these words, it's much worse.

I felt that. Calm down Satan ....

Cordell

Sorry man I never meant to hurt your soul.

*slowly backs away*

WrenBoy

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Hmm, why is it you take it personally when he relates his experience of xenophobia?

Well I don't know where you're pulling that from, well I do, but it would be rude to mention. Being treated differently because of race is wrong no matter who the target is.
What I said was its hard to feel pity for someone who then insults Irish people.

machaseh wrote: »

I all just find it very funny seeing as I have a higher education and wage level than most Irish people lol. I also find it curious how a people group that cannot even speak their OWN native language properly can be so xenophobic. If I were Irish I'd be super ashamed and I'd be spending my time learning the Irish language rather than hurling xenophobic comments towards strangers.

I know as an Irish person I'm now expected to lower myself and not have any self respect at all but no sorry I'll leave that to the rest of ye.

Sand

rgossip30 wrote: »

This site has really changed in the last few years it was very left wing dominated.

If you mean left wing in the sense of socialism, trade unions and so on that has been displaced largely displaced by neoliberalism. 'Left wing' (and indeed 'right wing' too) these days is the fight against various isms.

Mass migration/multiculturalism is largely incompatible with trade unions and other forms of worker's coming together to represent their interests. This is why companies push so hard for mass migration. They aren't doing it out of charity. Companies like Amazon fight against the possibility of their workers unionizing by tracking racial diversity at their facilities - the higher the diversity, the less chance of unions forming.

zom

WrenBoy wrote: »

I know as an Irish person I'm now expected to lower myself and not have any self respect at all but no sorry I'll leave that to the rest of ye.

I don't mind my pride and respect - not going to fight system that demonizing and discriminate people like me, cant see a chance to win this war. But my concerns are that this is going in wrong direction despite all best intentions and we are going to loose to more dynamic nations in Asia or even Africa at some stage. "Our" politicians and media seems not to give fox about real serious issues focused on "pride" and "equality" more than "development", "growth" or "safety".

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

No, I didn't 'moan' . I stated that I have had abusive things said to me because of the country I was born in. That is just fact.
Why would you downplay my experience?
I'm not even foreign.
I pointed out what happened in Asia, as many posters on here have talked about being in the receiving end of racism, so I also posted my own experience in asia. Now, I also pointed out those things didn't bother me.
So what is your issue with my factual post?

I use to travel to the uk in the 80 and 90s and got treated sometime like some suspected terrorist at customs on a couple of occassions, because i was irish

got more than my fair share of the mick treatment whilst in the uk.


It did not bother me, and some of it by your logic was racist ...since it was aimed at where I had come from, but i dont see the brits as racist....oh wait..is using the term brits allowed or it that racist too as shortening a country name is deemed racist.



Point is if you want to find racism you will find it. I genuinely believe we are possibly one of the least racist nations on Earth.
Unlike our former "white neighbours" of the uk, france, holland, Belgium etc we did not have a slave trade, we did not rape africa either.


In fact we Irish were the victims in some cases of the white slave trade, you dont see me as an Irishman demanding reparations for what happened to my ancestors.


Sick of do gooders trying to fight this war on white people where the term "racist" is thrown around with complete abandonment.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I use to travel to the uk in the 80 and 90s and got treated sometime like some suspected terrorist at customs on a couple of occassions, because i was irish

got more than my fair share of the mick treatment whilst in the uk.


It did not bother me, and some of it by your logic was racist ...since it was aimed at where I had come from, but i dont see the brits as racist....oh wait..is using the term brits allowed or it that racist too as shortening a country name is deemed racist.



Point is if you want to find racism you will find it. I genuinely believe we are possibly one of the least racist nations on Earth.
Unlike our former "white neighbours" of the uk, france, holland, Belgium etc we did not have a slave trade, we did not rape africa either.


In fact we Irish were the victims in some cases of the white slave trade, you dont see me as an Irishman demanding reparations for what happened to my ancestors.


Sick of do gooders trying to fight this war on white people where the term "racist" is thrown around with complete abandonment.

Lol!
Treating people differently because of their country of origin is racist.
It doesn't matter whether you were personally bothered by it or not.

If course we didn't have a slave trade! We didn't even rule ourselves.....