What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Ya, agreed with all that. I've been studying demographics for years, it's a fascinating topic and realistically one that is very hard to be perfectly accurate on. Some of the official Census Bureau of America's predictions just over a decade or so ago had America reaching 450 million by 2050/2060, there is a possibility now that they top out at 340/350 million.

The Middle East is another fascinating region and one that doesn't line up with most people's preconceptions.

Stories of low sperm counts are appearing now as well as a possible concern throughout the world

I remember seeing demographic studies done is the America for support for freedom of expression and general American values. It was certainly a wake up call. White Americans, especially males, scored very highly for supporting these values, while nearly every other group cared little for them. Stuff like that really matters, and it's not racist to say so.

kildare lad

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't remember exactly but there was some poster that linked Dublin city council lists earlier, Bosnians I believe were high on the waiting list, I guess in receipt of HAP.
Do you think just non white migrants should be illegible, or white immigrants also? Because this sentence seems to give the impression that it is non whites you are referring to?

It doesn't matter what colour they are, anyone coming here that can't support themselves and their families without relying on the state for handouts should be turned away. I don't think it's that controversial . We can't afford it , we've no housing , we're massively in debt so why keep adding to the problem, just so NGOs and bleeding hearts can keep spending other people's money.

Why not do a system like Australia , you're given a year working visa to get yourself set up . If you're a decent worker you'll get sponsored by your employer to stay on for another bit. You can also get an extension on your visa if you you do 3 months of farm work or fruit picking. Overstay your visa , you get throw out within a month . No solicitors milking the taxpayer for years fighting deportation .It's a lot better system than we have here. Some people arrive in Ireland expecting everything to be handed to them , Australia doesn't attract that type of migrant because you don't get fxck all of the state.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

And that is the reason there is no robust defence.
Because people don't feel the need to, it is accepted and most people don't have any issue with multiculturalism. So, no need therefore to defend it.
The only people who feel so strongly are anti, so they need to point out what they see as negative points.
If you are happy with something, it doesn't particularly raise any emotion either way, it just is.

Which would be fine - though you're giving good examples of the nothing to see here and blanket acceptance defences I noted - only the pro multiculturalists who do feel strongly about it and are invested in it as a politic and philosophy don't have a robust defence of it beyond the charity/exoticism angle. That's my point.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

I hate posts like this more than anything. While I wouldn't rush to say that there's many people against immigration, you're quick to do the opposite. You've no way of knowing the support levels for immigration, yet you make these claims boldly, without evidence. It's not one bit rational, because you simply don't have any way to measure it accurately. On top of that, Ireland is in the early stages of the process, revolt, if there is any, won't happen for another ten years or so.

I said multiculturalism.
I didn't say immigration.

Wibbs

TomTomTim wrote: »

You've no way of knowing the support levels for immigration, yet you make these claims boldly, without evidence. It's not one bit rational, because you simply don't have any way to measure it accurately.

Well the only real world indication of public feeling was back in 04 at the height of the Celtic Tiger when all was grand apparently, when 80% of the Irish electorate wanted to close the birth passport tourism loophole. If that vote had been held earlier or that loophole fostered by the GFA hadn't been in play in the first place Ireland's non EU migrant demographics would have been different today.

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

It doesn't matter what colour they are, anyone coming here that can't support themselves and their families without relying on the state for handouts should be turned away. I don't think it's that controversial . We can't afford it , we've no housing , we're massively in debt so why keep adding to the problem, just so NGOs and bleeding hearts can keep spending other people's money.

Why not do a system like Australia , you're given a year working visa to get yourself set up . If you're a decent worker you'll get sponsored by your employer to stay on for another bit. You can also get an extension on your visa if you you do 3 months of farm work or fruit picking. Overstay your visa , you get throw out within a month . No solicitors milking the taxpayer for years fighting deportation .It's a lot better system than we have here. Some people arrive in Ireland expecting everything to be handed to them , Australia doesn't attract that type of migrant because you don't get fxck all of the state.

But we do have that system. Non EU immigrants need visas to live and work here.
You can also get visas for family reasons in Australia, it's not just workers that can move there.

Is it just asylum seekers that you don't believe should be here?

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

I said multiculturalism.
I didn't say immigration.

They've got huge overlap. Well, you can't really have the former without the latter.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

But we do have that system. Non EU immigrants need visas to live and work here.

In theory, though we had an influx of non EU migrants in the late 90's into the noughties, many from countries who are refused entry today at a rate near 100%. We also have nearly 20,000 illegal immingrants, sorry "undocumented" according to the government who want to make them legal.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

In theory, though we had an influx of non EU migrants in the late 90's into the noughties, many from countries who are refused entry today at a rate near 100%. We also have nearly 20,000 illegal immingrants, sorry "undocumented" according to the government who want to make them legal.

Twenty years ago Wibbs, not now. Non EU immigrants need visas to enter unless they are asylum seekers.
Yep, there are illegal immigrants also, much like most other countries.

kildare lad

bubblypop wrote: »

But we do have that system. Non EU immigrants need visas to live and work here.
You can also get visas for family reasons in Australia, it's not just workers that can move there.

Is it just asylum seekers that you don't believe should be here?

Give them a one year visa , if you can't support yourself after that , bye bye . No drawn out court cases , straight on a plane good luck . Do families that arrive in Australia expect a house when they get there , you'd be laughed at . The pro multiculturalism/migrant crowd seem to want to straddle Irish people with more debt , they care more for people who haven't contributed one cent to the economy than the Irish taxpayer .

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, there are illegal immigrants also, much like most other countries.

And they should be turfed out rather than made legal

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Ya, agreed with all that. I've been studying demographics for years, it's a fascinating topic and realistically one that is very hard to be perfectly accurate on. Some of the official Census Bureau of America's predictions just over a decade or so ago had America reaching 450 million by 2050/2060, there is a possibility now that they top out at 340/350 million.

The Middle East is another fascinating region and one that doesn't line up with most people's preconceptions.

Stories of low sperm counts are appearing now as well as a possible concern throughout the world

On the same subject, google a recent article from the BBC,
"How modern life is making us infertile"
The human race is in trouble down the road. Nature's way if hitting back???

kildare lad

jmreire wrote: »

On the same subject, google a recent article from the BBC,
"How modern life is making us infertile"
The human race is in trouble down the road. Nature's way if hitting back???

It's probably no harm , the planet could do with less humans on it anyway

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

And they should be turfed out rather than made legal be rewarded for criminality

FVP to more reflect my take on it.

Cordell

Wibbs wrote: »

They've got huge overlap. Well, you can't really have the former without the latter.

But you absolutely can have immigration without multiculturalism.

crooked cockney villain

kildare lad wrote: »

. They're should be no migrants getting social housing or hap, .

The biggest housing scandal of the last 12 months, media wise, was the vulture fund buying up the housing estate in Maynooth.

Personally I can't understand why the biggest housing scandal wasn't

- the Kurdish lad in the country 10 minutes being given a 700K one bed flat in Terenure

- the Nkencho family being moved from a, IMO, circa 280- 350K home in Clonee to a newer upwards of 400K home up the road (or where they- in a video where the family abused Gardai they appeared to live in Hollystown, but in a radio interview where a heckler told them to leave Clonee the sister claimed they still lived there- are they living between TWO homes?)

Vulture funds are one thing, free gaffs for ingrates is another.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

But you absolutely can have immigration without multiculturalism.

Ahh well, I think it matters whether you're looking at multiculturalism from a modern or traditional sense. The older view of multiculturalism was less... forced, in that with smaller numbers involved, coexistence happened naturally. Whereas with the more modern approach of multiculturalism there's almost an artificial feel to it all, like it's being forced on the population.

kildare lad

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

The biggest housing scandal of the last 12 months, media wise, was the vulture fund buying up the housing estate in Maynooth.

Personally I can't understand why the biggest housing scandal wasn't

- the Kurdish lad in the country 10 minutes being given a 700K one bed flat in Terenure

- the Nkencho family being moved from a, IMO, circa 280- 350K home in Clonee to a newer upwards of 400K home up the road (or where they- in a video where the family abused Gardai they appeared to live in Hollystown, but in a radio interview where a heckler told them to leave Clonee the sister claimed they still lived there- are they living between TWO homes?)

Vulture funds are one thing, free gaffs for ingrates is another.

That Kurdish bloke was working in Canada a few years ago , got sacked and came here . Theres a 700 k gaf , You couldn't make it up . My bosses accountant made a mistake and he ended up owing the revenue 7 grand , well he was getting letters non stop about paying the money or he'd end up in court etc. He pays tens of thousands in tax every year, employs 8 people and the way they came after him over 7 grand it'd sicken you , then you've people sitting on their arse , contributing nothing having a grand stress free existence on the back of my boss. Society is messed up

Cordell

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ahh well, I think it matters whether you're looking at multiculturalism from a modern or traditional sense. The older view of multiculturalism was less... forced, in that with smaller numbers involved, coexistence happened naturally. Whereas with the more modern approach of multiculturalism there's almost an artificial feel to it all, like it's being forced on the population.

Sure, it was also a greater compatibility between cultures. Unlike today when the new culture can't even eat the food, drink the drinks and listen to the music.

crooked cockney villain

kildare lad wrote: »

. My bosses accountant made a mistake and he ended up owing the revenue 7 grand , well he was getting letters non stop about paying the money or he'd end up in court etc.

Nearly two months after I went back to work I'm still waiting for my final PUP payment, all they keep telling me is that it's under review. Simply no progress.

A few years ago I was on illness benefit for 5 or so weeks, in all it took six months to get every last cent out of them, they'd transfer me 50 here, 110 there, 3 weeks later another 50. Had to write down the amounts to ensure I had got it all in.

I don't have to tell you that an asylum seeker or a Roma wouldn't face any of that nonsense. Paid up in time on the dot.

Burkie1203

Time to start deporting those who live here as a result of an application but behave like this


https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1401881725727301638?s=19

kildare lad

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Time to start deporting those who live here as a result of an application but behave like this


https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1401881725727301638?s=19

Bad enough that we've our homegrown scrotes now we've just seemed to added to the problem. I'm still waiting to see the videos of gangs of Asian/ eastern European teens going around causing trouble ..... Was it a gang of doctors fighting a gang of engineers ???

MarkEadie

bubblypop wrote: »

And that is the reason there is no robust defence.
Because people don't feel the need to, it is accepted and most people don't have any issue with multiculturalism. So, no need therefore to defend it.
The only people who feel so strongly are anti, so they need to point out what they see as negative points.
If you are happy with something, it doesn't particularly raise any emotion either way, it just is.

Even though this particular thread appears to be far more of an anti asylum seeker thread than anything else.

Correct. A lot of the posts from the anti immigration side are just not worthy of response I feel, which is a shame. Its a little bit like reviewing a product. The majority of people who review are usually the ones who complain. You can't really get a reasonable discussion going with people who want to set up their own parties against immigration as I've seen in a couple of posts. Then there were the emails to the TDs

enricoh

MarkEadie wrote: »

Correct. A lot of the posts from the anti immigration side are just not worthy of response I feel, which is a shame. Its a little bit like reviewing a product. The majority of people who review are usually the ones who complain. You can't really get a reasonable discussion going with people who want to set up their own parties against immigration as I've seen in a couple of posts. Then there were the emails to the TDs

The last time we reviewed the product (the 2004 referendum) the results were a bit problematic for the pro immigration side!

No more reviews allowed, the fluffy stuff on rte will have to do instead!

ThunbergsAreGo

bubblypop wrote: »

200,000 over 6 years
Approx 33K more per year entered the country, then left the country?
It doesn't seem like a lot.

A Leitrim every year, a Kildare every six....

Yellow_Fern

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

The biggest housing scandal of the last 12 months, media wise, was the vulture fund buying up the housing estate in Maynooth.

Personally I can't understand why the biggest housing scandal wasn't

- the Kurdish lad in the country 10 minutes being given a 700K one bed flat in Terenure

- the Nkencho family being moved from a, IMO, circa 280- 350K home in Clonee to a newer upwards of 400K home up the road (or where they- in a video where the family abused Gardai they appeared to live in Hollystown, but in a radio interview where a heckler told them to leave Clonee the sister claimed they still lived there- are they living between TWO homes?)

Vulture funds are one thing, free gaffs for ingrates is another.

I posted it before but all these actions push house prices higher.

ThunbergsAreGo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Time to start deporting those who live here as a result of an application but behave like this


https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1401881725727301638?s=19

Its likely these are our own....

MarkEadie

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Its likely these are our own....

Yeah it seems very strange to argue for deporting citizens born and bred here which may be the case for the lads in the video above.

enricoh

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

A Leitrim every year, a Kildare every six....

That's the official census figures, there may well be a Leitrim along with a Kildare every 6 years!

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

Correct. A lot of the posts from the anti immigration side are just not worthy of response I feel, which is a shame. Its a little bit like reviewing a product. The majority of people who review are usually the ones who complain. You can't really get a reasonable discussion going with people who want to set up their own parties against immigration as I've seen in a couple of posts. Then there were the emails to the TDs

haha... I find this rather funny, because it's pretty obvious that you haven't been applying any kind of standard to the "pro-immigration" crowd, otherwise you wouldn't be making remarks about "a lot" of posts being unworthy of responding to. The pro-immigration crowd, for the most part, have set the standard really damn low...

It's pretty easy to get a reasonable discussion on this thread. You just have to commit to an exchange of ideas, and refrain from shifting the goalposts. Oh, and actually defend your statements. That helps a lot. Too many people love to throw out feel-good soundbites, and then get annoyed when they're not automatically accepted.

It is amusing though. You complain about being unable to have a reasonable discussion with those who talked about starting a party, but did you actually attempt to do so? I can remember when that part of the discussion was going on, and I don't remember you objecting, challenging these posters opinions, nor really providing any alternatives.

If you don't contribute, then you're not going to get much in return.

Oh,.. and just to note something... There isn't much in the way of anti-immigration on this thread. Oh, we're not approaching immigration with an open borders/open arms policy, but most opinions on the thread, see the value in immigration. It's been said many times on this thread.. skilled/educated labor that meets the demands of the labor market, and people who can support themselves completely are very welcome. And yet, posters like yourself keep popping up every so often to lump "a lot"of the posters into some kind of anti-immigration group.

You spoke about being reasonable, but your claim about others being anti-immigration isn't reasonable.