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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59054
I only threw in the passive aggressive reference as you pepper your text with smileys and that's usually the sign of someone in passive aggressive mode.OH MAN! I actually hoped you'd have the decency to at least try to admit something you're wrong... but obviously you don't...
All you did was just mumble about topics you hold no grasp and now that I caught you sudently play the passive agressive card that is always the same from people defending your beliefs.
Anyway, you claimed:
"big percentage of genetics from the Basque Country in Ireland"
This is wildly incorrect. A belief based on now outdated science that noted the R1b haplogroup is present in high amounts in Irish and Basque men. However they are a different form and the relationship that exists is far more ancient than any recent migration(by recent I mean in the last 5000 years).
You claimed:
"Then the Celts appeared and mingled with most populations"
This is incorrect in the case of Ireland. Unlike in England where Saxon genetics are present in the East of that country, there is no evidence of population migration from central European "celts" to Ireland. It was a cultural movement not a population one.
You claimed:
"Christianity brought hermits from all over Europe to Ireland, because of it's percieved remoteness of a land outside of the crumbling Roman Empire"
Incorrect. While Christianity was likely present in Ireland by the 5th century the only "hermits from all over Europe" at that stage were Palladius and Patrick. After Rome fell and insular Christianity really got going in Ireland the flow of people/missionaries was almost entirely one way, from Ireland to Europe.
Indeed.I really hoped you'd learn something.
Let me fix that for you:
To a colony that was founded upon and required (mostly unskilled)labour and colonists to survive. Ireland is not a recent European colony requiring (mostly unskilled)labour and colonists to survive.McDonald's first opened in 1970's Ireland. We required millions of Irish to be "exported" to America
The French, Dutch, Germans, Italians, Spanish et al eat spuds and drink coffee. 10,000 British people weren't required.The potato became an Irish staple and we required 10,000 British coming to Ireland for that to happen.
We drink coffee and tea and we required 10,000 British coming to Ireland for that to happen.
But you're avoiding the point. Cultural exchange doesn't require mass migrations of people and when mass migrations of people do happen it doesn't go well for the locals. In the case of very different people's and cultures meeting it almost always ends up in conflict.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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I only threw in the passive aggressive reference as you pepper your text with smileys and that's usually the sign of someone in passive aggressive mode.
Anyway, you claimed:
"big percentage of genetics from the Basque Country in Ireland"
This is wildly incorrect. A belief based on now outdated science that noted the R1b haplogroup is present in high amounts in Irish and Basque men. However they are a different form and the relationship that exists is far more ancient than any recent migration(by recent I mean in the last 5000 years).
You claimed:
"Then the Celts appeared and mingled with most populations"
This is incorrect in the case of Ireland. Unlike in England where Saxon genetics are present in the East of that country, there is no evidence of population migration from central European "celts" to Ireland. It was a cultural movement not a population one.
You claimed:
"Christianity brought hermits from all over Europe to Ireland, because of it's percieved remoteness of a land outside of the crumbling Roman Empire"
Incorrect. While Christianity was likely present in Ireland by the 5th century the only "hermits from all over Europe" at that stage were Palladius and Patrick. After Rome fell and insular Christianity really got going in Ireland the flow of people/missionaries was almost entirely one way, from Ireland to Europe.
Indeed.
Let me fix that for you:
To a colony that was founded upon and required (mostly unskilled)labour and colonists to survive. Ireland is not a recent European colony requiring (mostly unskilled)labour and colonists to survive.
The French, Dutch, Germans, Italians, Spanish et al eat spuds and drink coffee. 10,000 British people weren't required.
There's not even a point to reply to you anymore, really is it?
Did you even bother to check the links I passed you? 0 -
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But you're avoiding the point. Cultural exchange doesn't require mass migrations of people and when mass migrations of people do happen it doesn't go well for the locals. In the case of very different people's and cultures meeting it almost always ends up in conflict.
The point is, this is completely untrue and a lie... you can't compare mass immigrations from the 19th century justified as superior races conquering inferior races...
When you're the only one saying that and being afraid your "superior" irish gene will disappear...
You continue to show a lack of understanding of what is state sponsored colonialism like what happened in the Americas and Africa for hundreds of years with people moving around the world like they always did...
Or are you stating Nigeria or Syria have programs to colonize your pristine immaculate Christian Ireland? 0 -
Whatever about your degree which I see you quickly resorted to, with a classless appeal to authority, this above is merely your opinion.
In my opinion you are utterly wrong. Do you understand how that works?
Excelente argumentative capacity once again. Well AGAIN, Facts don't care about your feelings and you feeling I'm wrong doesn't mean absolute ****e to me
I'll wait patiently for actual arguments from any of you.
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Anyway guys, I'll leave the pub now... I'm truly sorry I burst so many of your bubbles... I hope you'll come back to what I shared and actually learn anything in do time.
Feel free to continue with your little racist comments I'll leave you alone now.
Peace
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Excelente argumentative capacity once again. Well AGAIN, Facts don't care about your feelings and you feeling I'm wrong doesn't mean absolute ****e to me
I'll wait patiently for actual arguments from any of you.
The facts are a man was shot. You are assigning the cause of that to the colour of his skin.
That is not a fact.
That is an opinion.
As it happens I only care about what you are saying because you are implicitly slurring an individual & AGS without facts. There is an investigation underway, would the outcome of that have any influence on you?0 -
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Anyway guys, I'll leave the pub now... I'm truly sorry I burst so many of your bubbles... I hope you'll come back to what I shared and actually learn anything in do time.
Feel free to continue with your little racist comments I'll leave you alone now.
Peace
You schooled everyone and ticked all the boxes, off you go, enjoy your pints.0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59054
Luckily you don't have a firearms qualification because that would have been a waste of time reading that statement. Qualified professionals in firearms are specifically trained to aim for the torso not the limbs. After a serious assault on a security guard and other threatening behaviour while brandishing a knife he was followed at a safe distance and asked to drop the knife and back down. He was tasered and pepper sprayed and still kept threatening the lives of the Guards. Then he was shot.It annoys me because I have seen blatant criminality and anti-social behavior and people complaining about it and the Garda does nothing at all... so suddenly a black guy being shot like he was when a shot in the leg or arm would have rendered him defenseless
Which all came about because of a mass migration and a lack of melting pot. You're kinda not helping the case.
I did and none back up your claims of "big percentage of genetics from Basques" nor Hermits from all across Europe in 5th century Ireland, nor a migration of Celtic people into Ireland. Not one. Maybe you should read them yourself? I'd also suggest some primers in basic genetics too. EG I have a percentage of neandertal genes(if you're European you have some too), it doesn't mean neandertals were ever in Ireland. It does mean that common ancestors of Europeans and Asians shagged Neandertals and the echoes of that remain, just like the R1b haplogroup remains in some western European populations .There's not even a point to reply to you anymore, really is it?
Did you even bother to check the links I passed you?
And more of the passive aggressive smileys and the usual; post stuff, which is shown to be half truths at best, downright wrong at worst and then rather than argue points that have been brought up after your first rebuttal(which to be fair to you was extensive) run away.Anyway guys, I'll leave the pub now... I'm truly sorry I burst so many of your bubbles... I hope you'll come back to what I shared and actually learn anything in do time.
Feel free to continue with your little racist comments I'll leave you alone now.
PeaceRejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Anyway guys, I'll leave the pub now... I'm truly sorry I burst so many of your bubbles... I hope you'll come back to what I shared and actually learn anything in do time.
Feel free to continue with your little racist comments I'll leave you alone now.
Peace
0 -
Anyway guys, I'll leave the pub now... I'm truly sorry I burst so many of your bubbles... I hope you'll come back to what I shared and actually learn anything in do time.
Feel free to continue with your little racist comments I'll leave you alone now.
Peace
Simple question for you ( and I hope that it never happens BTW. I've seen what Machetes can do )
An out of control man / woman is coming at you wildly swinging a machete, and you have a loaded gun, but only have a short time to react. What would you do?
Run for your life and hope for the best?
Try the humane way, aim for a disabling but non critical shot?
Aim for the biggest target, chest / stomach?
Or ?????0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Ahh no. It depends entirely on the disability. My shaking disorder prevents me from all manner of jobs that require fine control. I couldn't wait tables, nor can I fly an airplane, because my shaking disorder prevents doing so safely. I can thrive in society well enough because I've chosen roles that aren't dependent on my having a steady hand, or won't be affected if my arms suddenly spasm. Disabilities do matter though. Ask anyone who has one, and whether their choices in determining their future has been affected. Not by other peoples judgment of them (although that's certainly part of it) but by the disability itself.
I’m not saying disabilities don’t matter, I’m saying that they aren’t a factor in anyone’s ability to contribute positively to society and thrive in society. The point wasn’t about what anyone’s disability prevents them from doing, it was that there are any number of ways in which they can contribute positively to society and thrive. I can understand why people with disabilities would focus on their disability and what it prevents them from doing, but I don’t need to ask anyone what has their disability prevented them from doing when I’m more interested in what they can do and their potential for development. I won’t be a commercial pilot any time soon either, but that has more to do with the fact that I simply have never learned how to fly than anything it has to do with being blind in one eye or dyslexic -
Half Blind Pilot Inspires Others
That’s not to say I don’t get where you’re coming from though, I failed the medical for the army because of my click hip, even though I was fitter than any of the other candidates there. Running, while excruciatingly painful, isn’t something I was incapable of. They just weren’t keen on giving me a chance to prove I was as qualified as any other candidate, and it still pangs to this day that I wasn’t given the opportunity, in spite of all the potential negative outcomes I’ve become aware of since, in spite of doing something else entirely with my life. Still sore about that one, so I do get where you’re coming from, even though I’ve been incredibly fortunate since with employers who have been more understanding and willing to take a risk where others wouldn’t. Ask them and they’ll say it was a good return on investment, if only for sheer comedy value alone than any work I might actually be caught doing
I had always wanted to be a teacher too as I’m passionate both about working with children and education, and encouraging children to see the value in education, but I just didn’t have the confidence because I thought being dyslexic I’m gonna fcuk up, I won’t be good enough to be an educator, in spite of my mother’s insistence to the contrary. I thought about doing the Hibernia just to have it, but there are other factors which just put me off - the biggest one being the amount of bureaucracy and paperwork involved. The fact that the pay is shìte is also a factor, but not big enough to put me off.[Deleted User] wrote: »True enough.. although their race, disability, or socioeconomic background can easily be one of the reasons why they "don't already have the ability or education or skills or indeed the financial resources to provide for themselves or their families".
Yes, and that’s my point - rather than focusing on what a person can’t do, I focus on what they can do already and their potential development to enable them to do more. It’s often a huge risk, but the times it has paid off occur far more than the times it hasn’t. There are no guarantees, there are things I may overlook or things happen which I couldn’t have foreseen, but most of the time the investment has paid great dividends and provided great value for the investment in them. Like I said - I’ve been incredibly fortunate in the amount of people who have taken a great risk investing in me, and I’ve always appreciated the opportunity and it’s become my personal philosophy that I pay it forward, and the people I invest in pay it forward.[Deleted User] wrote: »Nope. I referred to corporal punishment as one of the social constraints that have been removed which previously was a factor in restraining anti-social behavior. Just as I placed the protection of teens in the same sentence. By removing the traditional methods to restrict social disorder, without replacing them with anything more effective, it simply contributed to the increase of that disorder.. And so people blame parents for the lack of discipline or the aggressive behavior of teens. Simply expecting parents to be better parents without teaching them to be better parents always seemed the height of foolishness to me.
I get where you’re coming from, but I see that (and I’m not saying you do it, you’re talking about other people), as people looking for someone or something to blame for someone’s shìtty behaviour, as though children are actually empty urns filled only by their parents values and influences. It has to occur to people that children have their own personalities and are influenced by numerous influences in society, could be their parents that inspire them, or a teacher who inspires them, or their peer group who inspires them (and any of those influences can have both positive and negative influences).[Deleted User] wrote: »Except they're not. Which is why across Europe, schools/universities are struggling to provide for migrants because they have greater needs beyond that of natives. Oh, you'll find plenty of articles saying that schools/universities are failing migrants, but if you compare articles, you'll often find that migrants are being treated the same as natives (in poor/disadvantaged areas), but deserve more. More of everything.. which teachers don't have the time/resources to provide.
And it doesn't bear out in terms of adult migrant refugees, who tend to end up and stay in low income positions. If they had education to the Irish standard, then they would be able to climb the career ladders, the same as Irish people. A hefty percentage of migrants don't.
Schools across Europe and Universities are struggling to provide for migrants, because they don’t want to. That’s essentially what it comes down to. I don’t need to look for articles to say they’re failing migrants because from what I can see they’re failing the student body in any third level institutions in numerous different ways, and it’s only coming to the fore now because third level institutions are struggling for investment at a time when people are asking questions about whether or not they’re getting value for their investment. Can you see a correlation between the two statements in bold? Because I can. Migrants, not unlike many Irish people, aren’t aware of the numerous supports which are already provided, they’ve just resigned themselves to imagining the supports don’t exist. Those who want to succeed, whether they be Irish, immigrant or disabled, will succeed in spite of things like the language barrier and the lack of accessible facilities, because the one thing they have in common is the motivation to better themselves. Even better if they are given the opportunities to develop their potential.[Deleted User] wrote: »If wishes were fishes, poor people wouldn't starve. There aren't the jobs for them. Ireland's economy is mostly based on a reasonably high skill level, whether that be IT, Pharma or specialised manufacturing. Employment provided to them, takes employment away from our own low-skilled workforce. As I said, such jobs tend to be temporary, unreliable and low paid... which means people shift around on job offers. And support? For how long? For how many of them? To what extent? (I'm not even going to bother with the innovation remark. There's the obvious counter)
But as you said, we're very dependent on foreign multinationals (and a few of our own)... what happens when (not if) a few of them leave? Irish people become jobless, all the while we've been encouraging more immigrants to come in. What happens to both the Irish and the immigrants then, with a failing economy, and rising unemployment?
What’s the obvious counter to the innovation remark that I’m not thinking of? It’s the fundamental basis of economic growth rather than producing graduates just to fill job positions, perpetuating dependency of sucking on the titty of foreign multinationals instead of real job creation and long term employment. We don’t teach innovation in this country in the same way they do in an actual competitive economy like China. Instead we do as I suggested - the same thing as we’ve always done, produce well-educated automatons who have poor problem-solving skills.
What happens if/when foreign multinationals leave? Then everyone who is dependent upon them has the choice to upskill, train to do something else, or sit on their hole and get bitter about “their jobs” being taken. You’re displaying that misguided sense of loyalty I spoke of earlier too btw in thinking that because someone is Irish they’re somehow owed a position over a migrant. Having hired numerous candidates in various different positions, their nationality was never a consideration I’d thought of before. I wouldn’t favour a candidate just because they’re Irish, they’re not entitled to a position above another candidate solely based upon their nationality. I wouldn’t encourage that kind of thinking in Government either when it comes to Enterprise, development and job creation. It’s bad enough that they write people off solely on the basis that they don’t have a sufficient grasp of the English language.[Deleted User] wrote: »We already have a wide range of systems under strain. Education needs reform along with a major infusion of investment. That's just for our current population... never mind about adding another, what, 50k/100k migrants to the mix.
You speak of the wasted investments.. sure.. I get that.. I really do.. but I see the migrant issue as being another colossal waste of money too. I see very few benefits considering our native population (or EU connections) can provide everything Ireland needs to succeed. The immigration of low skilled/low educated migrants leads to extremely dubious benefits, and a whole host of long-term negatives, which we're starting to see manifest in Europe.
Just for shìts ‘n’ giggles, I looked up last night how many babies were born last year. Nearly 70,000 apparently, though you’d never know it (I have a suspicion that this years figure will be significantly higher). The point being that nobody has talked about even 100,000 immigrants entering the country in a calendar year. And even if there were, which is incredibly unlikely in any case, but just hypothetically if there was indeed a mass influx of immigrants - we’d be caught with our pants around our ankles because we’re just badly prepared for even the few that do come here that we try to keep them contained in conditions I wouldn’t keep a dog in, and it’s costing us billions, money which would be far better invested IMO in providing training and development and resources to enable immigrants to contribute to society instead of being either plonked in the arsehole of nowhere and expected to get on with it (some do, with great difficulty), or holed up in a mouldy hotel or detention centre which is just an unhealthy environment either for people who are homeless or immigrants. It’s no different IMO than when we institutionalised people to keep them out of sight of “civilised” society. We don’t appear to have learned anything from our history, because here we are repeating the same mistakes again and expecting different results, and you’re talking about the long term negatives of an alternative which has been practiced in other countries of providing necessary supports in order to enable people to integrate into society and contribute to society, while maintaining their own cultures and values. Instead you’re still arguing about assimilation rather than recognising that differences aren’t inherently a bad thing. 0 -
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