What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Eric Cartman

Bobtheman wrote: »

As to the Cartoons give me a break. We had many lunatic Catholics who murdered many other Catholics and Protestants simply because of their Religion/nationality.
Personally, I dont know why anybody would show a cartoon that others found offensive just to emphasise free speech. That being said killing a man for doing that is reprehensible but I would not condemn all Muslims over it. Ask Irish people what it was like to be in the UK in the 1970s as the IRA tried to blow up various places

please show me one example of a catholic murdering multiple innocent people for publishing a picture of Jesus ?

Cordell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

please show me one example of a catholic murdering multiple innocent people for publishing a picture of Jesus ?

Probably it's something that happened during dark ages.
I like when their bleeding heart defenders find similar deeds in the distant past of the civilised world, it only serves to prove the most important point: they don't belong here.

Eric Cartman

Cordell wrote: »

Probably it's something that happened during dark ages.
I like when their bleeding heart defenders find similar deeds in the distant past of the civilised world, it only serves to prove the most important point: they don't belong here.

thats it, these peoples calanders are bizarre, violent acts by muslims today are perfectly alright because christians did them in the 1800s or before , but people saying things in the 70s that are considered racist today are bad and those people need to be punished.

the only real answer to these people is 'white man bad'

Frankie Machine

Bobtheman wrote: »

As to the Cartoons give me a break. We had many lunatic Catholics who murdered many other Catholics and Protestants simply because of their Religion/nationality.

Lazy, lazy, lazy equivalence.

You might as well applaud the IRA for the reverence they had for the Protestants in their 'pantheon'.

Personally, I dont know why anybody would show a cartoon that others found offensive just to emphasise free speech.

Just to emphasise free speech, is a good enough reason.

Anyway, it seems after all, that it is valuable and instructive to know what peoples' reactions to a cartoon are.

That being said killing a man for doing that is reprehensible but I would not condemn all Muslims over it. Ask Irish people what it was like to be in the UK in the 1970s as the IRA tried to blow up various places

Irish people found it uncomfortable from time to time. Many, many of them stayed on in the UK all the same. Far from all, but many of them supported the IRA when speaking amongst themselves, or when the collection went around in the Irish pub.

So, what was your point ?


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Gervais08

Bobtheman wrote: »

As to the Cartoons give me a break. We had many lunatic Catholics who murdered many other Catholics and Protestants simply because of their Religion/nationality.
Personally, I dont know why anybody would show a cartoon that others found offensive just to emphasise free speech. That being said killing a man for doing that is reprehensible but I would not condemn all Muslims over it. Ask Irish people what it was like to be in the UK in the 1970s as the IRA tried to blow up various places

My uncle was physically thrown out of a pub in Birmingham in the mid 70s just because they heard his accent.

Yet there are many many cartoons taking the piss out of the Irish and yet no one has bombed the Private Eye offices or shot the staff.

Quit trying to equalize the two eh ?

Bobtheman

Gervais08 wrote: »

My uncle was physically thrown out of a pub in Birmingham in the mid 70s just because they heard his accent.

Yet there are many many cartoons taking the piss out of the Irish and yet no one has bombed the Private Eye offices or shot the staff.

Quit trying to equalize the two eh ?

Im not trying to equalize the two. People do lunatic things in the name of the Irish people-Jesus or Allah or simply football A group of lunatic Muslims kill people doesn't mean all Muslims support killing those who depict Muhammed negatively
Just like most Irish people didn't support the IRA.

But anyway you will never change those who despite huge evidence yo the contrary want to paint an entire religion with one paintbrush.
Lots of young men floated into the fascist clutches of the IRA late 1960s onwards. Many were poor and alienated. Ludicrously viewed themselves as Soldiers etc. Ended up killing more Catholics than even the British security forces
Im not saying there were not genuine grievances in the North. Not denying that.
Just it would be a leap to say all Irish people supported the IRA. They didnt. SF hardly got any votes in the North until the mid-1980s and then only became a major party after their armed wing stopped murdering people.
Thus put away your paintbrushes

creeper1

No. Islam is a special kind of craziness beyond the comprehension of a Irish citizen living in the year 2020.

As Ann Marie waters stated recently with Muslim countries getting behind a “boycott France “ initiative you would be forgiven for thinking that it was a poor Muslim decapitated. It’s Europeans being decapitated!

Check out the woman being beaten to death in Afghanistan. It’s beyond comprehension. I repeat

TomTomTim

creeper1 wrote: »

No. Islam is a special kind of craziness beyond the comprehension of a Irish citizen living in the year 2020.

As Ann Marie waters stated recently with Muslim countries getting behind a “boycott France “ initiative you would be forgiven for thinking that it was a poor Muslim decapitated. It’s Europeans being decapitated!

Check out the woman being beaten to death in Afghanistan. It’s beyond comprehension. I repeat

Arnold Toynbee put it best:
"Great civilizations are not murdered. They commit suicide"

Yellow_Fern

Bobtheman wrote: »

As to the Cartoons give me a break. We had many lunatic Catholics who murdered many other Catholics and Protestants simply because of their Religion/nationality.
Personally, I dont know why anybody would show a cartoon that others found offensive just to emphasise free speech. That being said killing a man for doing that is reprehensible but I would not condemn all Muslims over it. Ask Irish people what it was like to be in the UK in the 1970s as the IRA tried to blow up various places

The French cartoons depicted the Bible and the Torah as toilet paper. Muslims are not being targeted.

Gervais08

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The French cartoons depicted the Bible and the Torah as toilet paper. Muslims are not being targeted.

Difference is we never went out and massacred anyone.

jmayo

Bobtheman wrote: »

As to the Cartoons give me a break. We had many lunatic Catholics who murdered many other Catholics and Protestants simply because of their Religion/nationality.
Personally, I dont know why anybody would show a cartoon that others found offensive just to emphasise free speech. That being said killing a man for doing that is reprehensible but I would not condemn all Muslims over it. Ask Irish people what it was like to be in the UK in the 1970s as the IRA tried to blow up various places

Whatboutery 101

I haven't noticed your username before posting on these threads, but boy do you follow a very similar posting style to quite a few others who are regulars.

In the very recent past especially in Ireland or UK, Catholics were not murdering based on religion, it was based on political outlook and nationality.
But you know that already. :rolleyes:

Why not show a cartoon?
Why do we have to pussy foot around the sensibilities of one particular religious cult?

Would it be because that particular religious cult have been allowed to dictate what we get to discuss and what we get to ridicule?
Would it be because people condone their violent reactions to being ridiculed?
Would it be because we are scared lest we get our heads hacked off?

However distasteful some Jewish caricatures have been in the last few decades I can't for the life of me remember seeing Jews around the world clammouring for the deaths of those pushing those cartoons.

Likewise with Christians.

Why do some people excuse muslims ?

It is a slippery slope and the whole slippery slope related to muslim population growth is mentioned time and time again.

First it is cartoons, then it is foodstuffs, then it is removal of others religious symbols, then it is segregation of female students, then it is removal of homosexual teachers ...

Little by little the freedoms we have built up over many hard decades are chipped away to slowly try turn us into something reminding some of home.

But maybe it is worth it for the facebook likes and the interesting new cuisine.

TomTomTim

jmayo wrote: »

Whatboutery 101

I haven't noticed your username before posting on these threads, but boy do you follow a very similar posting style to quite a few others who are regulars.

In the very recent past especially in Ireland or UK, Catholics were not murdering based on religion, it was based on political outlook and nationality.
But you know that already. :rolleyes:

Why not show a cartoon?
Why do we have to pussy foot around the sensibilities of one particular religious cult?

Would it be because that particular religious cult have been allowed to dictate what we get to discuss and what we get to ridicule?
Would it be because people condone their violent reactions to being ridiculed?
Would it be because we are scared lest we get our heads hacked off?

However distasteful some Jewish caricatures have been in the last few decades I can't for the life of me remember seeing Jews around the world clammouring for the deaths of those pushing those cartoons.

Likewise with Christians.

Why do some people excuse muslims ?

It is a slippery slope and the whole slippery slope related to muslim population growth is mentioned time and time again.

First it is cartoons, then it is foodstuffs, then it is removal of others religious symbols, then it is segregation of female students, then it is removal of homosexual teachers ...

Little by little the freedoms we have built up over many hard decades are chipped away to slowly try turn us into something reminding some of home.

But maybe it is worth it for the facebook likes and the interesting new cuisine.

As you well know, simply because most of them aren't white. If Islam was a European religion they'd treat it just as they do Christianity, with contempt. They used to reveal their hand regularly in debates about Islam when they used to makes statements like "why do you hate brown people?". It's them who boil it all down to race, when it's a matter of ideas for most of us.

Richard Hillman

Yes, we had many catholics and protestants murder each other on the island. Do yiz remember how it all started?

A foreign power of a very different culture and religion planted thousands of people on our island.

Fast forward 400 years and we have the Saudi Regime ripping up Africa and Asia with War after War after War, flooding Europe with migrants and then funding their mosques to become even more extreme.

What the Saudis are doing is not too dissimilar to the British but less obvious. The British said to Hell or to Connacht. The Saudis are essentially doing the same, except no Connacht. Straight to hell.

Learn from history. Plantations are not good for the indigenous people. It has never worked out well. Not once in the history of the world

Bobtheman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Yes, we had many catholics and protestants murder each other on the island. Do yiz remember how it all started?

A foreign power of a very different culture and religion planted thousands of people on our island.

Fast forward 400 years and we have the Saudi Regime ripping up Africa and Asia with War after War after War, flooding Europe with migrants and then funding their mosques to become even more extreme.

What the Saudis are doing is not too dissimilar to the British but less obvious. The British said to Hell or to Connacht. The Saudis are essentially doing the same, except no Connacht. Straight to hell.

Learn from history. Plantations are not good for the indigenous people. It has never worked out well. Not once in the history of the world

I'd agree with you there about saudi. However you won't convince me that all muslims are nuts . Personally I don't provoke lunatic fringes whether they are the muslim terrorists or Irish terrorists.
There is a streak in the Muslim religion that's nuts and armed. But I would not dismiss the 99% of european muslims who are not nuts.
The saudi regime is dysfunctional and oil rich. There is your problem
Thirdly let's not pretend that white Europeans are tolerant creatures who never did anything nuts. The IRA were fascists who only used democracy when it dawned on them that the Brits or unionists were not leaving. But look you want to pretend to be part some enlightened race now and in the past hundred years or so -go for it man !
I'm all in favor of deporting and stripping those who don't want to play by the rules of newly acquired citizenship.

Frankie Machine

Bobtheman wrote: »

I'd agree with you there about saudi. However you won't convince me that all muslims are nuts .That you should not denigrate anybody's religion unless it affects you directly.

Why not ?

Thirdly let's not pretend that white Europeans are tolerant creatures who never did anything nuts. The IRA were fascists who only used democracy when it dawned on them that the Brits or unionists were not leaving. But look you want to pretend to be some enlightened race now and in the past hundred years or so -go for it man !

If we are no better than they, and they are no better than we, why is the flow of human traffic practically one-way ?


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Bobtheman

Frankie Machine wrote: »

Why not ?



If we are no better than they, and they are no better than we, why is the flow of human traffic practically one-way ?


.

They are from less developed nation's. The muslim nation's will eventually secularise . Inevitable.

Bobtheman

I adjusted my post. I just don't trouble lunatic fringes. Religion should be the subject of humor but not with lunatics around.
Same as when I was in dundalk in the 1980s I didn't take the piss out of the IRA

Bobtheman

What do you do when you crack a joke about muslims - look behind you !

statesaver

Bobtheman wrote: »

They are from less developed nation's. The muslim nation's will eventually secularise . Inevitable.

No they won't, not anytime soon.

See what is happening in Turkey, they are going backyards under Erdoğan.

TomTomTim

Bobtheman wrote: »

They are from less developed nation's. The muslim nation's will eventually secularise . Inevitable.

This really shows your ignorance. Not all societies have the same trajectory. Islam has went up and down in regard to how extreme it is throughout history, whereas Europe's path to secularism didn't have the same ups and downs.

Frankie Machine

Bobtheman wrote: »

They are from less developed nation's. The muslim nation's will eventually secularise . Inevitable.

Not buying that.

And in any case, 'secularise first', then we'll see.

Bobtheman

statesaver wrote: »

No they won't, not anytime soon.

See what is happening in Turkey, they are going backyards under Erdoğan.

Well you can hardly say what's happening in the USA is a forward step-Trump

Bobtheman

TomTomTim wrote: »

This really shows your ignorance. Not all societies have the same trajectory. Islam has went up and down in regard to how extreme it is throughout history, whereas Europe's path to secularism didn't have the same ups and downs.

You are right there is no one trajectory but It's just the ignorance you and the bar flies show . You group a billion people under one heading. Incredible. Like saying all Irish people are drunks etc.
As for Europe it's path wasn't totally smooth. We did a fantastic job raping and pillaging Africa and the middle east. Creating unsustainable nation's .
That doesn't mean we should take in excessive immigrants. I'm for reforming the whole system.The Irish system has no real method for tracking down visa skippers.
Anyway I'm done.
Rant away.
Islamophobics- je accusse!

jmreire

Bobtheman wrote: »

They are from less developed nation's. The muslim nation's will eventually secularise . Inevitable.

No, they won't secularise, ever. To do so would mean abandoning the Quran, and there fore Islam. Its just not going to happen, all that will happen is that different shades of Islam ( and yes there are different versions ) will be in charge at different times and different places, with different results. Yes, they will live in secular Country's , the EU for example, but even here they will follow the Quran as much as they possibly can, but they will work actively to change their adopted Country to as near Islamic Life as they can. Just google "Germany accepts certain Sharia Law's " you might be surprised at what they have achieved . The Religion itself has not changed in the 1'400 years of its existence because the Quran itself cannot be changed as it's the literal word of God, and can only be changed by God. And so Muslims live by laws that were made 1'400 years ago by Mohammad.

statesaver

Douglas Murray tells Andrew Neil that other western countries should stand by President Macron as he battles with Islamist extremism in France.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXqez68Cchk&app=desktop

jmayo

Bobtheman wrote: »

I'd agree with you there about saudi. However you won't convince me that all muslims are nuts . Personally I don't provoke lunatic fringes whether they are the muslim terrorists or Irish terrorists.

You see there you go again with the whataboutery.

Oh PIRA/INLA/IRA/ETA/FARC, etc are not equivalent to al-qeada, and most definitely the latest one ISIS.
All the Western terrorist organisations had some sort of political goals, they had specific enemies that weren't just people who happened to be a different religion and usually from the West.
And AFAIK they never encouraged ordinary people to just go out and kill totally random people.

Bobtheman wrote: »

There is a streak in the Muslim religion that's nuts and armed. But I would not dismiss the 99% of european muslims who are not nuts.

Why oh why is this always trotted out to try make us naysayers sound the very unreasonable ones and that the only issue with growth of islam in Europe is outright terrorists.
What about the fact that even though a low percentage of European muslims are terrorists, there are quite a few more that condone their terrorism.
Or perhaps you don't remember how terrorists were hidden in Moleenbeek and that when mass murderer was arrested some of the locals rioted?
Or perhaps you don;t remember those marches in London with lads carrying ISIS flags ?

And even if we discount the terrorists, the terrorist supporters you totally disregard the huge numbers that engage in harrassing women, that engage in sexual assaults on women and girls, the ones that back sharia, the ones that see homosexuality as a crime.

Nah you don't want to count those because that 1% suddenly grows to more like 50% that really have issues with our way of life and our secular norms.

Bobtheman wrote: »

The saudi regime is dysfunctional and oil rich. There is your problem
Thirdly let's not pretend that white Europeans are tolerant creatures who never did anything nuts. The IRA were fascists who only used democracy when it dawned on them that the Brits or unionists were not leaving. But look you want to pretend to be part some enlightened race now and in the past hundred years or so -go for it man !
I'm all in favor of deporting and stripping those who don't want to play by the rules of newly acquired citizenship.

Ahh FFS can you give it a rest with the IRA.
Yes we know all about them, the catholic church, yada, yada, yada

All we are getting from you is what-about, what-about, what-about.

It is fooking childish and shows you don't have an argument that will stand up.

Bobtheman wrote: »

They are from less developed nation's. The muslim nation's will eventually secularise . Inevitable.

Head in sand.

Just look at pictures of Kabul today, even after Taliban has been out of power nearly 20 years and what it was like in early 1970s.

Just look where Bosnia or Kosovo are heading with fundamentalism on the rise.

Once semi secular muslims are going more and more towards fundamentalism.
And yes it is thanks to like of Saudis.

Bobtheman

jmreire wrote: »

No, they won't secularise, ever. To do so would mean abandoning the Quran, and there fore Islam. Its just not going to happen, all that will happen is that different shades of Islam ( and yes there are different versions ) will be in charge at different times and different places, with different results. Yes, they will live in secular Country's , the EU for example, but even here they will follow the Quran as much as they possibly can, but they will work actively to change their adopted Country to as near Islamic Life as they can. Just google "Germany accepts certain Sharia Law's " you might be surprised at what they have achieved . The Religion itself has not changed in the 1'400 years of its existence because the Quran itself cannot be changed as it's the literal word of God, and can only be changed by God. And so Muslims live by laws that were made 1'400 years ago by Mohammad.

You could have said the same thing about the bible but here we are !

Gervais08

jmayo wrote: »

You see there you go again with the whataboutery.

Oh PIRA/INLA/IRA/ETA/FARC, etc are not equivalent to al-qeada, and most definitely the latest one ISIS.
All the Western terrorist organisations had some sort of political goals, they had specific enemies that weren't just people who happened to be a different religion and usually from the West.
And AFAIK they never encouraged ordinary people to just go out and kill totally random people.


Why oh why is this always trotted out to try make us naysayers sound the very unreasonable ones and that the only issue with growth of islam in Europe is outright terrorists.
What about the fact that even though a low percentage of European muslims are terrorists, there are quite a few more that condone their terrorism.
Or perhaps you don't remember how terrorists were hidden in Moleenbeek and that when mass murderer was arrested some of the locals rioted?
Or perhaps you don;t remember those marches in London with lads carrying ISIS flags ?

And even if we discount the terrorists, the terrorist supporters you totally disregard the huge numbers that engage in harrassing women, that engage in sexual assaults on women and girls, the ones that back sharia, the ones that see homosexuality as a crime.

Nah you don't want to count those because that 1% suddenly grows to more like 50% that really have issues with our way of life and our secular norms.



Ahh FFS can you give it a rest with the IRA.
Yes we know all about them, the catholic church, yada, yada, yada

All we are getting from you is what-about, what-about, what-about.

It is fooking childish and shows you don't have an argument that will stand up.



Head in sand.

Just look at pictures of Kabul today, even after Taliban has been out of power nearly 20 years and what it was like in early 1970s.

Just look where Bosnia or Kosovo are heading with fundamentalism on the rise.

Once semi secular muslims are going more and more towards fundamentalism.
And yes it is thanks to like of Saudis.

We’ve a relative on the father’s side who left the IRA after being jailed in the 70s.

Just lost the “calling” or whatever you want to name it. Wanted to marry and have kids, stable life and that.

Had a chat with someone (would never say who apparently) and that was that.

I imagine leaving ISIS - if these monsters ever want to - is not as easy.

jmreire

Bobtheman wrote: »

You could have said the same thing about the bible but here we are !

Not quite ...Its true that Islam has its roots in the old Testament, and still clings to the eye for an eye, stoning of Adulterers, chopping of of head's etc. Yes, and even in this age, 2020, they still do these things and all approved by Sharia Law.
But for Christians, 2'000 years ago Christ changed all of that, and gave us the new testament,which completely reformed the old Testament, which is what Christians world wide still follow to this day. An so the Bible was reformed. Islam has never reformed. Islam is locked into the same laws that Mohammad made 1'400 years ago, and still has to have its reformation. In the last 50 years or so, Ireland has changed almost out of recognition, in terms of secularity, ( and everything else too) and England and the rest of Europe had passed the same point way longer than 50 years ago. So just forget about the Church and Christian's or other non Islamic religions. in your comparisons. It was not Christianity which gave rise to the taliban, al-qaeda or isis. In this part of the world, Christianity ( or indeed Jehovah Witnesses, Jew's, Hindus Hare Krishnas, Atheisms etc ) as a religion is a personal choice.

jmreire

( and in the past

Gervais08 wrote: »

We’ve a relative on the father’s side who left the IRA after being jailed in the 70s.

Just lost the “calling” or whatever you want to name it. Wanted to marry and have kids, stable life and that.

Had a chat with someone (would never say who apparently) and that was that.

I imagine leaving ISIS - if these monsters ever want to - is not as easy.

In Al-Hasakah prison camp in Syria, the isis prisoners, men, women and children are separated into two groups, the hardcore isis fanatics, and those isis member's which are less fanatical. Between the two groups, armed guards continuously patrol the area between the enclosure's. These are not the ordinary camp perimeter patrols, but internal ones for the protection of the camp inmates who are seen by the isis fanatics as backsliders, and who they will kill, and have in the past killed when given the chance.