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FF/FG/Green Next Government

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12357…339

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    #122
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Do FF have a credible female? I've speculated in other threads about Martin bringing Lisa Chambers back from the Seanad wilderness but I guess that would be an insult to their current women TDs. Anne Rabbitte might do at a pinch?

    There's also Mary Butler & Jennifer Murnane O'Connor but they are light on female options.


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    #123
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Give health and housing to the Greens , senior hurling etc
    Practicalities are not their forte.
    They will be pushing for these cushy numbers.
    Children and Youth affairs; Communications, Climate Change and Environment; Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht; Education and Skills.

    I would like to see them try to run a serious department for the laughs.


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    #124
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Sulk; and continue to periodically brief handpicked journalists off the record about how badly Martin is doing. A bit like O'Cuiv, although slightly lower down the evolutionary table.
    He's the FF equivalent of Deasy, and just as unreliable. He'll get the chair of a committee, hopefully not PAC again!


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    #125
    TallGlass2
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭TallGlass2


    Just over 13 years since FF and the Greens drove us into the ground, they are now back at the wheel. MM as first in the round robin Taoiseach.

    We should go to the polls again. FG will clean up.


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    #126
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,464 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I thought the Occupied Territories Bill referred to Northern Ireland :D


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    #127
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    TallGlass2 wrote: »
    Just over 13 years since FF and the Greens drove us into the ground, they are now back at the wheel. MM as first in the round robin Taoiseach.

    We should go to the polls again. FG will clean up.

    I very much doubt that FG would clean up if we went to polls again (which would realistically be a September/October poll). Ruling parties all over the world are getting unnatural bumps in their support- because of Covid. Give it a couple of months- and even if there is an autumn resurgence of Covid- it'll be a different story.

    FG are riding unnaturally high in the polls right now- but were they to assume this was anything other than fleeting in nature- they would be in for a rude surprise.

    Even if the incoming government spend big for the next 2 budgets- there is a day of reckoning on the horizon, and like it or not, there is going to be a bill to be paid (so while the programme for government very clearly notes no increases in income tax, PRSI or USC for the next two budgets- it is mute on what happens after this).

    There is austerity coming down the line- perhaps not in the next 2 years- but immediately thereafter- and FG/FF/Greens have signed up to it............


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    #128
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    TallGlass2 wrote: »
    Just over 13 years since FF and the Greens drove us into the ground, they are now back at the wheel. MM as first in the round robin Taoiseach.

    We should go to the polls again. FG will clean up.

    The lack of understanding of what happened with the last global financial crash is staggering!

    It just leads to the same old nonsense being trotted out!

    Aye FF & the Greens were responsible for a global financial crisis - most Irish politicians can barely run a coherent campaign but those 2 parties caused a worldwide meltdown?

    The use of this sh*te as an ‘argument’ is complete rubbish


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    #129
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    TallGlass2 wrote: »
    Just over 13 years since FF and the Greens drove us into the ground, they are now back at the wheel. MM as first in the round robin Taoiseach.

    We should go to the polls again. FG will clean up.


    Seriously you need to read what happened in the crash......


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    #130
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Poor_old_gill wrote: »
    The lack of understanding of what happened with the last global financial crash is staggering!

    It just leads to the same old nonsense being trotted out!

    Aye FF & the Greens were responsible for a global financial crisis - most Irish politicians can barely run a coherent campaign but those 2 parties caused a worldwide meltdown?

    The use of this sh*te as an ‘argument’ is complete rubbish

    Not every country had the IMF in though. Could have that anything to do with the reliance on property by any chance?

    Anything to do with FF laughing at the warnings? The Galway tent? Complete lack of mortgage regulation?

    No connection?


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    #131
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Yeah it was all Lehman Brothers fault, as De Bert used to say.

    Heaven forbid two parties that voluntarily agreed to govern the country should take any responsibility for what happened while they were in government.

    I'm sure if we had an economic boom in 2009 they'd take no credit for that either and instead emphasise it was all down to what happened elsewhere in the world.


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    #132
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Yeah it was all Lehman Brothers fault, as De Bert used to say.

    Heaven forbid two parties that voluntarily agreed to govern the country should take any responsibility for what happened while they were in government.

    I'm sure if we had an economic boom in 2009 they'd take no credit for that either and instead emphasise it was all down to what happened elsewhere in the world.

    They actually said that the doom mungers should commit suicide.

    The ****ing soft landing.


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    #133
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Poor_old_gill wrote: »
    The lack of understanding of what happened with the last global financial crash is staggering!

    It just leads to the same old nonsense being trotted out!

    Aye FF & the Greens were responsible for a global financial crisis - most Irish politicians can barely run a coherent campaign but those 2 parties caused a worldwide meltdown?

    The use of this sh*te as an ‘argument’ is complete rubbish


    The one question I always ask, prior to the crash was any of the other parties shouting and roaring saying ti was all going to fall apart? in the previous election did they all say the wheels where about to come off?

    You won't find any of them.........


    Any of the parties could have been in power and they would have done nothing different. The regulator who was supposed to stop all this happening was on the beer with the lads down the pub, the lads they where supposed to be stopping doing stupid things


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    #134
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Not every country had the IMF in though. Could have that anything to do with the reliance on property by any chance?

    Anything to do with FF laughing at the warnings? The Galway tent? Complete lack of mortgage regulation?

    No connection?

    The Galway tent is trotted out as some kind of mythical sphere of control- it was a piss up essentially so I don’t see why people over state it so much.

    Mortgage regulation was under the remit of an independent body.

    The crisis was caused by a global credit bubble and low interest rates in the eurozone - meaning that a lot of capital flowed in here.

    Read up on it- Paul krugman would be a good start


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    #135
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Yeah it was all Lehman Brothers fault, as De Bert used to say.

    Heaven forbid two parties that voluntarily agreed to govern the country should take any responsibility for what happened while they were in government.

    I'm sure if we had an economic boom in 2009 they'd take no credit for that either and instead emphasise it was all down to what happened elsewhere in the world.

    I didn’t say that they shouldn’t take any responsibility but this idea that they were the cause of it shows a lack of understanding of what happened, prior/during/after the crisis and also a lack of understanding of the machinations of the global & European economies


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    #136
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Not every country had the IMF in though. Could have that anything to do with the reliance on property by any chance?

    Anything to do with FF laughing at the warnings? The Galway tent? Complete lack of mortgage regulation?

    No connection?


    Most of the lads in the Galway tent had zero control over the Banks. The Banks where handing them money when they asked so they kept taking


    Plus the Galway tent didn't force people to buy houses they could never afford on 100% mortgages. Even if the crash never happened people would still end up losing houses because it was all built on a very shaky stack of cards, one puff of wind and the whole thing fell apart.



    Even now you have people complaining because they can't get a 100% mortgage, if the Central Bank lets the Bank do it tomorrow you would see thousands of people flocking in to make the exact same mistake again.



    People need to take some personal responsibility. It is the same crying about the car tax change in 2008. Yes it was changed, but no the government didn't bring everyone out and point a gun at you saying you need to buy a new car to knock 200 quid off your car tax. That was the stupidity of the Irish people. Please note I was included in that as well.


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    #137
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Most of the lads in the Galway tent had zero control over the Banks. The Banks where handing them money when they asked so they kept taking


    Plus the Galway tent didn't force people to buy houses they could never afford on 100% mortgages. Even if the crash never happened people would still end up losing houses because it was all built on a very shaky stack of cards, one puff of wind and the whole thing fell apart.



    Even now you have people complaining because they can't get a 100% mortgage, if the Central Bank lets the Bank do it tomorrow you would see thousands of people flocking in to make the exact same mistake again.



    People need to take some personal responsibility. It is the same crying about the car tax change in 2008. Yes it was changed, but no the government didn't bring everyone out and point a gun at you saying you need to buy a new car to knock 200 quid off your car tax. That was the stupidity of the Irish people. Please note I was included in that as well.

    The way people go on about the ‘Galway tent’ in Ireland is akin to American loon balls going on about bilderberg.

    A New Ireland Order of glorified GAA officials- come on ta f*ck


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    #138
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been asked already but if we have a rotating Taoiseach, do we have to pay more than one Taoiseach's pension?

    Yes, but of course each pension will be less, as the pension is based on time served.

    So overall no increase in costs to the taxpayer.


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    #139
    Mules
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Mules


    Normally I agree about personal responsibility but a lot of people haven't a clue about finance. That's why they have to be protected from dodgy lending practices. Sure the banks still don't pay tax on their earnings. They were exempted from it after the bailout. It's ridiculous. Banks need to be broken up and separated into deposit banks and investment banks. People can take whatever investment risks they want once it doesn't involve customer's savings.


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    #140
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    Mules wrote: »
    Normally I agree about personal responsibility but a lot of people haven't a clue about finance. That's why they have to be protected from dodgy lending practices. Sure the banks still don't pay tax on their earnings. They were exempted from it after the bailout. It's ridiculous. Banks need to be broken up and separated into deposit banks and investment banks. People can take whatever investment risks they want once it doesn't involve customer's savings.

    There’s definitely merit in that suggestion!


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    #141
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Poor_old_gill wrote: »
    I didn’t say that they shouldn’t take any responsibility but this idea that they were the cause of it shows a lack of understanding of what happened, prior/during/after the crisis and also a lack of understanding of the machinations of the global & European economies

    Anyone going for any executive position has to be willing to accept responsibility for what happens on their watch.

    Anyone who takes that position and then spends a decade trying to squirm off the hook of responsibility for what happened on their watch might as well go around with a sign on then saying "I cannot be trusted to run a cornershop".
    If any of them ever said "we F-ed up, but they were tough times" I'd consider voting for them. Instead they just collect their enormous pensions and shrug off responsibility.

    Anyway, as mentioned, the Great Recession was a global event, yet Ireland was one of the worse affected countries. FF, and to a lesser extent The Greens, have to take some responsibility for that to be considered credible for government.


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    #142
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Shefwedfan wrote: »

    The one question I always ask, prior to the crash was any of the other parties shouting and roaring saying ti was all going to fall apart? in the previous election did they all say the wheels where about to come off?

    You won't find any of them.........

    George Lee on RTE did his best and developed a lot of profile as a critic of FF's policies.

    He was headhunted by FG as a celeb by-election candidate and won a Dáil seat.

    His triumphal entrance into Leinster House was followed by him being gagged by Enda and Dickie Bruton (FG's finance spokesman) and thrown into a locked cellar in the bowels of Leinster House.

    He resigned from both FG and the Dail eight months later ..... ""due to having "virtually no influence or input" into shaping Fine Gael's economic policies at a time of economic upheaval.

    "Asked if his resignation was a vote of no confidence in Kenny, Lee said there were "certainly lots of large mutterings at the moment in relation to the leader's position". He said he had "minimal involvement" with Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton. "I had a maximum of two or three conversations with Richard Bruton in a total nine months period. I don’t know how my relationship is with [him]" (Wiki).


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    #143
    Scoundrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    Fantastic the final sting of the dying FF wasp I can't wait for them to be consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong all to be sacrificed so that Michael Martin can be a caretaker Taoiseach for 2.5 years.

    Make no mistake this is the end of FF it will be FG-SF shootouts from now on and FF will be like the old Labour party begging to get with either as junior partner.


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    #144
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Mules wrote: »
    Normally I agree about personal responsibility but a lot of people haven't a clue about finance. That's why they have to be protected from dodgy lending practices. Sure the banks still don't pay tax on their earnings. They were exempted from it after the bailout. It's ridiculous. Banks need to be broken up and separated into deposit banks and investment banks. People can take whatever investment risks they want once it doesn't involve customer's savings.

    The banks aren't exempted from paying tax, but they have massive losses carried forward which - like any business - they can offset against any profits that they make until the losses are exhausted. (At least that's my understanding of the situation.)


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    #145
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Most of the lads in the Galway tent had zero control over the Banks. The Banks where handing them money when they asked so they kept taking


    Plus the Galway tent didn't force people to buy houses they could never afford on 100% mortgages. Even if the crash never happened people would still end up losing houses because it was all built on a very shaky stack of cards, one puff of wind and the whole thing fell apart.



    Even now you have people complaining because they can't get a 100% mortgage, if the Central Bank lets the Bank do it tomorrow you would see thousands of people flocking in to make the exact same mistake again.



    People need to take some personal responsibility. It is the same crying about the car tax change in 2008. Yes it was changed, but no the government didn't bring everyone out and point a gun at you saying you need to buy a new car to knock 200 quid off your car tax. That was the stupidity of the Irish people. Please note I was included in that as well.

    Completely agree about personal responsibility. Nobody forced people to take out stupid mortgages. At the same time the consensus was if you didn't you would never own as prices could never ever go down.

    I am not suggesting for a second that there wasn't a global crisis and money was too cheap, however FF needs to take their responsibility too. We were much more affected then other countries due to our over reliance on property.


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    #146
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Perhaps unsurprisingly, Eamon Ó Cuív is against it.

    Will be interesting to see if others in FF and FG follow suit.

    Fingers crossed they will!


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    #147
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »
    Perhaps unsurprisingly, Eamon Ó Cuív is against it.

    Will be interesting to see if others in FF and FG follow suit.

    Fingers crossed they will!

    Terrible to be depending on the likes of O'Cuiv, McSharry, McGuinness, the FF Party backwoodsmen and the Green lunatic fringe to stop this dog's dinner of a government from coming into being.


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    #148
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Completely agree about personal responsibility. Nobody forced people to take out stupid mortgages. At the same time the consensus was if you didn't you would never own as prices could never ever go down.

    I am not suggesting for a second that there wasn't a global crisis and money was too cheap, however FF needs to take their responsibility too. We were much more affected then other countries due to our over reliance on property.


    Yes FF do have to take responsibility I agree....but sticking the whole lot on them and saying it would have happened different with another party is not really correct


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    #149
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Terrible to be depending on the likes of O'Cuiv, McSharry, McGuinness, the FF Party backwoodsmen and the Green lunatic fringe to stop this dog's dinner of a government from coming into being.

    the worst part is, one of the best hopes for putting this shambles to bed is the extremists like saoirse mchugh and hazel chu's followers voting against it.


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    #150
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Yes FF do have to take responsibility I agree....but sticking the whole lot on them and saying it would have happened different with another party is not really correct

    Well we agree so.


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    #151
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    the worst part is, one of the best hopes for putting this shambles to bed is the extremists like saoirse mchugh and hazel chu's followers voting against it.

    And they may well be bought off with the promise of Seanad nominations. If this deal fails, Ryan is dead meat.


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