Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

sdanseo

frag420 wrote: »

I could get behind that if the cop was alone as his pattern was inside getting coffee and donuts or whatever but according to one poster here there were tow sets of cops, so a min of three cops there. they had ample opportunity to not kill him.

2 cars, 2 cops. Almost all in the US are single crew (which definitely contributes to the number of fatal encounters, which could be avoided by having backup).

Think about it. You're the second cop. Most likely scenario is, guy has already been tased once and still functioning. He's trying to taze you , take your gun and kill you. All this happened in the last 7 seconds. You have to react NOW.

Do you shoot him or tase him again?
Oh wait you don't have a taser. And your colleague is currently reloading his.

Go to an ASP? Pepper spray? Nope. I know what I'd be doing.

I accept this outcome might not have happened anywhere else, but I don't think many people in another country would be stupid enough to try and shoot a police officer with their own taser and come out the other side.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Your justifying lethal force against somebody with a non lethal weapon who is actively trying to flee.

Trying to flee is not the same as stealing a taser and trying to use it. The cops can't assume that if he's willing to use that on them, he won't then take their firearms and do worse, either to them or to bystanders.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Cops need to learn how to handle people better, both verbally and physically, and how not to let a drunk guy take your taser off you.

I agree with this entirely, the situation should never have escalated to where it did. There are a million societal and political reasons that it did, each of which was way over the head of the suspect or the cops.
But in the end, it happened. They didn't choose that.

You can't let someone drive on drunk and wipe out a family on their way home, he had to be arrested and that would have been the case in any other country too.

Timberrrrrrrr

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Your justifying lethal force against somebody with a non lethal weapon who is actively trying to flee.

That means everyone suspected of a crime is open to shooting if resisting arrest because a punch can do the same.

There is a reason the cops classify these as non lethal, so they can use them in lots of situations.

Cops need to learn how to handle people better, both verbally and physically, and how not to let a drunk guy take your taser off you.

It's not a "non lethal weapon" it's a less than lethal weapon. You sound like he had a nerf gun

joe40

frag420 wrote: »

It didn't happen in Ireland.

Well the only way he could have done a runner by driving away is by the cops letting him drive the car which they did.



If he was a clear threat, why not call for back up, why let him drive his car?

Look we can see from this and other the other thread (that you started) that you have a hard on for the US police and it seems to get particularly hard when they kill a black person...

If that exact same situation had happened in Derry, the PSNI would not have shot someone dead even though they are armed. Because they are a responsible well trained police force.

The lack of basic humanity from some posters is quite worrying. A young man is dead and he doesn't need to be.

It is not anti police to look for better training, and better policies about guns, to try to prevent this sort of thing.

This auld sh*the about the young man getting what he deserved is repulsive.

declanflynn

punisher5112 wrote: »

Have a look at YouTube and look at shootouts where police have been killed or shot multiple times and left for dead.....

One from I believe 2017 was a traffic stop, they were speaking with a male, he had enough after similar circumstances where they were placing him in cuffs, he fought and there were two officers, he was tased, he continued fighting the cops even dragged him out of a live motorway lane to safe his life, he managed to over power them, got up ran to his car and shot both of them numerous times, how they weren't killed was an absolute miracle.

He was black and both officers were white, he was around 22 I believe and the car was full of drugs.

But you seem to think the cops are always wrong.

I dont think this man had guns and drugs in his car!

punisher5112

I see it clear now it's a complete sh1t show and cops lives don't matter and neither do white people.

lawrencesummers

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Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's not a "non lethal weapon" it's a less than lethal weapon. You sound like he had a nerf gun

No, it’s classed as a non lethal weapon.

RasTa

I remember this policeman in also said he was reaching for his taser.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/a-closer-look-at-the-walter-scott-shooting-424905283706

walshb

joe40 wrote: »

If that exact same situation had happened in Derry, the PSNI would not have shot someone dead even though they are armed. Because they are a responsible well trained police force.

The lack of basic humanity from some posters is quite worrying. A young man is dead and he doesn't need to be.

It is not anti police to look for better training, and better policies about guns, to try to prevent this sort of thing.

This auld sh*the about the young man getting what he deserved is repulsive.

I can fully appreciate this...

There does seem to be a trigger happier buzz in the U.S.

I always thought this. But, I guess there is no perfect system.

The U.S. is rampant with guns, and gun nuts...weird country..

Witcher

lawrencesummers wrote: »

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No, it’s classed as a non lethal weapon.

No, it's not.

punisher5112

declanflynn wrote: »

I dont think this man had guns and drugs in his car!

How do you know?

I'm just saying look at more videos and you will understand then how dangerous it is to be a cop.

Cops don't shoot or tase every person they come across, many have never fired a weapon at all in their service.

The male fought, took a officers weapon and used it against them.

The ah should have shot him in the leg trick is something that I'd laughable as people could still easily bleed out and it's much harder to fire from a hand gun and be that accurate.

Timberrrrrrrr

lawrencesummers wrote: »

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No, it’s classed as a non lethal weapon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser

The TASER device is a less-lethal, not non-lethal, weapon. Sharp metal projectiles and electricity are in use, so misuse or abuse of the weapon increases the likelihood that serious injury or death may occur. In addition, the manufacturer has identified other risk factors that may increase the risks of use. 

punisher5112

RasTa wrote: »

I remember this policeman in also said he was reaching for his taser.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/a-closer-look-at-the-walter-scott-shooting-424905283706

This is totally different, yes he fought but he was no longer a direct threat at that time, he shouldn't have been shot and that was proven, this has no bearing on the case we are discussing.

Each case is different and no two are the same.

declanflynn

punisher5112 wrote: »

How do you know?

I'm just saying look at more videos and you will understand then how dangerous it is to be a cop.

Cops don't shoot or tase every person they come across, many have never fired a weapon at all in their service.

The male fought, took a officers weapon and used it against them.

The ah should have shot him in the leg trick is something that I'd laughable as people could still easily bleed out and it's much harder to fire from a hand gun and be that accurate.

They cops should have parked up his car and drove him home.
Only in the US do you get killed for sleeping in your car.

froog

Rows Grower wrote: »

Protesters have burned down the Wendy's restaurant where the incident happened and it looks like this is going to escalate into more nationwide protests under the flag of BLM.

Sorry the man has died but the colour of his skin had nothing to do with it.

you don't think if the dude was white the cop wouldn't have shot him so instinctively?

punisher5112

declanflynn wrote: »

They cops should have parked up his car and drove him home.
Only in the US do you get killed for sleeping in your car.

Oh sorry didn't comprehend it correctly so these were Uber or taxi drivers, agh I was so wrong.

sdanseo

froog wrote: »

you don't think if the dude was white the cop wouldn't have shot him so instinctively?

No, I don't think so. I've seen a lot of videos where cops are clearly prejudiced, but this isn't that. And plenty of white people end up on the wrong side of incidents like this as well.

It's sad and a total waste, but the guy made his own choices and his skin colour seems to have had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

walshb

declanflynn wrote: »

They cops should have parked up his car and drove him home.
Only in the US do you get killed for sleeping in your car.

I can’t find a facepalm image big enough!!

Timberrrrrrrr

declanflynn wrote: »

They cops should have parked up his car and drove him home.
Only in the US do you get killed for sleeping in your car.

He could have taken a taxi home instead of driving while intoxicated.

RasTa

"That's a weapon"
"it's a bucket"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9SZlypyK-4

declanflynn

punisher5112 wrote: »

Oh sorry didn't comprehend it correctly so these were Uber or taxi drivers, agh I was so wrong.

Was the Wendys still open?

NotMOL

It seems that the people in this thread calling it police brutality or racism have evolved from

1. The Wendy's staff are racist for calling the cops on an 'innocent' drunk man sleeping in his car

Then someone ITT tells them that he was alseep/passed out in drive thru, so of course it was justified for them to call the police

Then then go on to:

2. He was just running away why not just allow him to run away?

First of all he resisted arrest, stole the officers weapon and then said aimed at the officer. Do you really think they are gonna just let him go freely? If someone resists arrest violently like that they very well could be hiding something serious, for all the officers knew he could be a wanted man for a serious crime.

3. Why not shoot in his leg..the cops are racist for not shooting his leg

Again this just highlights the stupidity of the people we are arguing with. No cop is trained to shoot someones leg, they will always shoot the center of target. This is real life it's not a movie

4. He was scared that the police will kill him so that is why he resisted arrest

If I am scared I will comply with the police...I won't fight with them, then steal their weapon and aim it at them


It is sad that he had to die but it is 100% his fault. Every day cops risk their lives in America and these split second decision decide if they will go home in a box.

walshb

Suicide by cop is an apt description for what happened here..

froog

sdanseo wrote: »

No, I don't think so. I've seen a lot of videos where cops are clearly prejudiced, but this isn't that. And plenty of white people end up on the wrong side of incidents like this as well.

It's sad and a total waste, but the guy made his own choices and his skin colour seems to have had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

fair enough. in my opinion if the dude was white he would still be alive. the cop instinctively shot to kill when a non-lethal taser was pointed at him. if the guy was white his instinct would have been to tackle/incapacitate him. this is systemic racism. the cop most likely doesn't even realised he's been programmed this way.

~Rebel~

punisher5112 wrote: »

How do you know?

I'm just saying look at more videos and you will understand then how dangerous it is to be a cop.

Interestingly, you’re actually only ~half as likely to be killed by another person if you’re a cop, as if you’re a normal citizen.

punisher5112

declanflynn wrote: »

Was the Wendys still open?

Well if it wasn't why was there a queue of cars and more arriving at the time.

walshb

froog wrote: »

fair enough. in my opinion if the dude was white he would still be alive. the cop instinctively shot to kill when a non-lethal taser was pointed at him. if the guy was white his instinct would have been to tackle/incapacitate him. this is systemic racism. the cop most likely doesn't even realised he's been programmed this way.

This is a serious jump to assumption...very odd!

The cop most likely doesn’t know he’s been programmed this way...🤔

lawrencesummers

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser

That’s what it’s been changed to. The inventor classed it as a non lethal weapon, not that there is a difference.

Akrasia

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He could have taken a taxi home instead of driving while intoxicated.

He wasn’t driving. he was asleep in a car that was parked in a car park

If the cops had a bit of cop on, they would have given him a warning instead of arresting him

sdanseo

RasTa wrote: »

"That's a weapon"
"it's a bucket"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9SZlypyK-4

That's a totally different incident and for me, looks like clear profiling.

That said, the guy could have saved himself a few minutes of dodge by just doing what the cop asked, putting the thing down and answering the questions. It got to the point where he was surrounded by cops, putting his hands places he shouldn't and acting decidedly edgy. A terrible, terrible idea. But he decided that. Not the cops.

Just because the stop is wrong doesn't give you a free extra life. Cops are conditioned (however wrongly) to be suspicious and treat everything suspicious as a threat - especially in America where there are more guns than people.

If you're stopped and feel you shouldn't have been - you have legal recourse later. There is no situation in the world where being noncompliant, fighting or resisting on a point of principle is going to make things better.

NotMOL

False Prophet wrote: »

For me deadly force should be last resort only to be used when you or others are at risk.
He had 1 taser, they could have stayed outside the range of the taser or backed away and radioed for backup.
What was the worse he could do, he couldnt taser both officers so wasnt going to get a gun. They had his name and car.
What do guards do if someone steals a taser?

To be honest it is not really relevant what guards do if someone steals a taser because thankfully guards don't face the same dangers as police in America.

Luckily the worst the will generally happen to a guard is get a punch, but cops in the US are regularly shot at.