Best Career : Employment rate and Pay

CBear1993

What’s the craic with all the stocks and bonuses people mention in tech firms? Seems to bump the base salary way up. Do you physically have this stock money at any time you please or is it like a pension , can only be withdrawn on request?

Do you get paid overtime? Only if you’re a contractor I’m guessing.

Why is there no fear of contracting in IT? I see lots of folks on here at it, making a killing, and don’t seem to be bothered about fragile job security or benefits. Is it because it’s so normal and they’ll find work right away somewhere else?

Genuinely asking! In construction it say a QS contracted themselves in to a company and submitted all their hours they’d be the first one got rid of if any sort of slow period throughout the year fame, regardless of how valuable they are to the firm.
I know a guy has about 30 years experience, went in last year and won a top 4 contractor here €160m worth of jobs. He was the first person let go when the COVID fiasco even made a creaking noise. Very upset he was but he’s flying at it on his own now.

Tom Dunne

schmoo2k wrote: »

[*]Here are some traits I look for when interviewing folks for a Software Developer position:
- Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko)
- Do they spot patterns in ordinary every day things
- Are they musical, play an instrument
- Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools
- Do they follow tech news
- Do they program as a hobby
- Do they do electronics as a hobby
- Do they like Sci Fi
- Are they competitive (not so much in the sports sense, but more in the "I like to know more about XYZ than the next person")
[/LIST]

The thing about the above traits (and I know your not going to tick every box) is that for some folks its just how they are wired and for them developing software is fun / easy / challenging, all at the same time.

It's disturbing how I answered pretty much yes to every question above. Case in point - my Mrs. just bought me a Star Wars facemask for work. Any jobs going in your place?

salonfire wrote: »

Quite surprising how many teachers in this thread aren't aware of how their salaries are paid and unable to grasp a simple calculation and accept facts. It is a fact teachers are paid for a 9 month year for which they work 9 months.

Facts are based on evidence. So, I would be delighted to see the evidence of this fact so we can put this matter to bed once and for all.

salonfire

schmoo2k wrote: »

Another old timer Software Developer here - with a few thoughts for those who think they might like it as a career:

• It suites some folks and not others (this can not be emphasised enough)
• Computer Science in UCC had the largest drop out rate of any course there - this IMO is not a reflection on the subject or lecturers, but more an indictment on our Leaving Certificate / Points Race and the emphasis on memorization and not on "logic". IMO its the type of course that warrants an aptitude test as part of the admission process.
• Here are some traits I look for when interviewing folks for a Software Developer position:
  - Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko)
  - Do they spot patterns in ordinary every day things
  - Are they musical, play an instrument
  - Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools
  - Do they follow tech news
  - Do they program as a hobby
  - Do they do electronics as a hobby
  - Do they like Sci Fi
  - Are they competitive (not so much in the sports sense, but more in the "I like to know more about XYZ than the next person")

The thing about the above traits (and I know your not going to tick every box) is that for some folks its just how they are wired and for them developing software is fun / easy / challenging, all at the same time.

I could also list anti-traits, but you get the idea...

This would not necessarily be the case though.

During the last recession, many people switched to development after doing a springboard course having come from other industries.

I don't know many SciFi loving, hobby building, musical plasterers!

But people from a construction background who may have never saw themselves in front of a computer are busy programming away now.

I do agree people should have to sit some sort of aptitude test

schmoo2k

JimmyVik wrote: »

We had 50% of the class drop out in first year.
Dont get me wrong, I love tech and software development, but nowadays its just ruined with red tape and beurocracy. Too many chiefs all looking to their own ends.
The creativity and spark went out of it maybe 5 - 10 years ago.
I just lost the fondness for it over the years. The industry has changed. It is no longer for the likes of me. I have changed too I guess. I am no longer up for putting up with the corporate bs that goes on. I was actually going to go back to contracting just before Covid. I probably will after for a few years and then quit altogether.



If I was to answer your questions at your interview.


- Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko) - Yes
- Do they spot patterns in ordinary every day things - Yes
- Are they musical, play an instrument - No
- Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools - Yes
- Do they follow tech news - Used to devour it. Not really as much anymore
- Do they program as a hobby - Yes
- Do they do electronics as a hobby - Yes
- Do they like Sci Fi - YEs
- Are they competitive (not so much in the sports sense, but more in the "I like to know more about XYZ than the next person") - Yes

Your answer above seems to sum up where your at currently... (I feel like I should be offering suggestions in defence of the industry, but to do so would be daft without knowing your full history...) - may the next phase of your carrier be equally fulfilling!

CBear1993

salonfire wrote: »

This would not necessarily be the case though.

During the last recession, many people switched to development after doing a springboard course having come from other industries.

I don't know many SciFi loving, hobby building, musical plasterers!

But people from a construction background who may have never saw themselves in front of a computer are busy programming away now.

I do agree people should have to sit some sort of aptitude test

How many of these people are there though, you hear these big wild assumptions thrown out. I’d speculate the number is quite small based on one person saying their friend did it, and so on. Typical.

I work/manage trades every day and I’ll tell you when they come into the office the odd time there’s not too many would know how to send an email never mind program

schmoo2k

salonfire wrote: »

This would not necessarily be the case though.

During the last recession, many people switched to development after doing a springboard course having come from other industries.

I don't know many SciFi loving, hobby building, musical plasterers!

But people from a construction background who may have never saw themselves in front of a computer are busy programming away now.

I do agree people should have to sit some sort of aptitude test

That is the point I am trying to convey, before doing a springboard or bootcamp, try and work out if its going to suite you and your personality or you will be at nothing...

Tom Dunne

CBear1993 wrote: »

What’s the craic with all the stocks and bonuses people mention in tech firms? Seems to bump the base salary way up. Do you physically have this stock money at any time you please or is it like a pension , can only be withdrawn on request?

Do you get paid overtime? Only if you’re a contractor I’m guessing.

Why is there no fear of contracting in IT? I see lots of folks on here at it, making a killing, and don’t seem to be bothered about fragile job security or benefits. Is it because it’s so normal and they’ll find work right away somewhere else?

Genuinely asking! In construction it say a QS contracted themselves in to a company and submitted all their hours they’d be the first one got rid of if any sort of slow period throughout the year fame, regardless of how valuable they are to the firm.
I know a guy has about 30 years experience, went in last year and won a top 4 contractor here €160m worth of jobs. He was the first person let go when the COVID fiasco even made a creaking noise. Very upset he was but he’s flying at it on his own now.

The stocks/shares are usually a set of golden handcuffs, you are awarded them, but can't touch them for a pre-determined period of time (usually measured in years). They are designed to encourage people to stay at the company longer.

Bonuses are more along the lines of profit sharing and depend on employee salary and how well the company did.

salonfire

CBear1993 wrote: »

How many of these people are there though, you hear these big wild assumptions thrown out. I’d speculate the number is quite small based on one person saying their friend did it, and so on. Typical.

I work/manage trades every day and I’ll tell you when they come into the office the odd time there’s not too many would know how to send an email never mind program

Grant you, it is probably a minority.

Not just construction though, I know myself of a chef who is a developer now.

schmoo2k

salonfire wrote: »

Grant you, it is probably a minority.

Not just construction though, I know myself of a chef who is a developer now.

In the US I worked with a GP who started fresh as a programmer and a Brain Surgeon from south America who is now an executive level IT guy - super smart and when asked why he switched career his answer was that the previous job was "too sad"...

CBear1993

CBear1993 wrote: »

..........

Why is there no fear of contracting in IT? I see lots of folks on here at it, making a killing, and don’t seem to be bothered about fragile job security or benefits. ..............

In IT, pharma and med devices there is of course a fear of contracting, those that have that fear go the staff/perm job route.

A contractors rate should be enough so that working 46 weeks of the year will give you 12 decent pay cheques (including the ability to save a significant % of it), a decent pension contribution and enough to cover private health care for you and your dependants if required.

That all mitigates the fear.

CBear1993 wrote: »

..........

In construction. ..............

Has always been a boom to bust industry and quite likely will remain so. Also it lends itself less to folk having specialist skills.

In pharma/med device large capital projects requires engineers/specialists with experience doing what lots of staff engineers never/rarely do so you have a pool of specialist folk who just go from project to project getting more experienced at what they do.

JimmyVik

schmoo2k wrote: »

Your answer above seems to sum up where your at currently... (I feel like I should be offering suggestions in defence of the industry, but to do so would be daft without knowing your full history...) - may the next phase of your carrier be equally fulfilling!

Retirement
Go contracting for two more years.
Buy my house in the next year.
And its a life of ease for me after that.
Working in IT is good for only one thing nowadays. Money. It has lost its shine interest wise.

Maybe where i messed up was chasing the money. I always had it as a goal to bank as much money as possible from work and then to retire at 40. I'll miss that by a couple of years, but close.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Retirement
............ I always had it as a goal to bank as much money as possible from work and then to retire at 40. I'll miss that by a couple of years, but close.

Well done.
You must have some wad built up from working if you can afford to retire with potentially 40/50 years of living to cover.

Dean91

JimmyVik wrote: »

Retirement
Go contracting for two more years.
Buy my house in the next year.
And its a life of ease for me after that.
Working in IT is good for only one thing nowadays. Money. It has lost its shine interest wise.

Maybe where i messed up was chasing the money. I always had it as a goal to bank as much money as possible from work and then to retire at 40. I'll miss that by a couple of years, but close.

Well done , you must be making close to 10k a month to retire around 40 years of age .
No wife and kids must be the secret .

Dean91

Dean91 wrote: »

Well done , you must be making close to 10k a month to retire around 40 years of age........

Plenty folk making that and more who couldn't retire at 40.
€1m not invested would last 40 years if you took €25k/annum to live.

CBear1993

Out of interest - are there actually any companies in Ireland, let alone Dublin, that have hours of 10am - 4pm? Serious question.

Was talking to my good friend from school who I hadn't heard from in a while - she's in Canada, just outside Vancouver.

She was a qualified podiatrist here, went to Oz, now working for a tech firm. Her words were "I got very lucky with a tech firm who make mobile games, they're all about employees".

Her hours are 10-4...I was insanely jealous upon hearing this. And that's days she works from home also.

How is this so? Even that she got in the door with no prior IT/Computer background, yet over here you have to tick every box on the list just to get a follow up from your application.

And yes, life over there does look unreal, the grass does look very green indeed!

Top chief

Augeo wrote: »

Plenty folk making that and more who couldn't retire at 40.
€1m not invested would last 40 years if you took €25k/annum to live.

Nice so what jobs are paying 10k a month apart from a consultant or judge.
I thought I was doing well with 4,800 a month . (Facepalm)

CBear1993

CBear1993 wrote: »

Out of interest - are there actually any companies in Ireland, let alone Dublin, that have hours of 10am - 4pm? Serious question.
...........

There's likely people doing 30 hour weeks in some places but not on full time wages.

I reckon your friend is a very rare example given she'd no experience. Realistically, what employers in tech give folk with no experience 30 hr weeks and full time wages?

HerrKuehn

CBear1993 wrote: »

Out of interest - are there actually any companies in Ireland, let alone Dublin, that have hours of 10am - 4pm? Serious question.

Was talking to my good friend from school who I hadn't heard from in a while - she's in Canada, just outside Vancouver.

She was a qualified podiatrist here, went to Oz, now working for a tech firm. Her words were "I got very lucky with a tech firm who make mobile games, they're all about employees".

Her hours are 10-4...I was insanely jealous upon hearing this. And that's days she works from home also.

How is this so? Even that she got in the door with no prior IT/Computer background, yet over here you have to tick every box on the list just to get a follow up from your application.

And yes, life over there does look unreal, the grass does look very green indeed!

Short answer, no. If you are looking for something with short hours, software development is definitely not it. If you love it though, you aren't too concerned about the hours.

schmoo2k

JimmyVik wrote: »

Retirement
Go contracting for two more years.
Buy my house in the next year.
And its a life of ease for me after that.
Working in IT is good for only one thing nowadays. Money. It has lost its shine interest wise.

Maybe where i messed up was chasing the money. I always had it as a goal to bank as much money as possible from work and then to retire at 40. I'll miss that by a couple of years, but close.

I was just reading a blog of someone doing something similar.

One rule of thumb is (US Article) - retire with 2 Million in pension + property, then draw down 4% of your fund value each year...

JimmyVik

Dean91 wrote: »

Well done , you must be making close to 10k a month to retire around 40 years of age .
No wife and kids must be the secret .

Ha ha. I messed up on that part so.
Wife and kids attached.

JimmyVik

schmoo2k wrote: »

I was just reading a blog of someone doing something similar.

One rule of thumb is (US Article) - retire with 2 Million in pension + property, then draw down 4% of your fund value each year...

Ive been really examining this even more the last few months.
The way I figure it, you need to replace your normal outgoings with your new retirement income plus a buffer. Dont need €2M at all.


The big thing though is owning your house outright.
While ive been procrastinating about buying a house for years ive saved up enough to buy one for cash when I do. It helps that we've been living in a 2 bed granny flat for free for a good while now too though.


So when I buy a house I will retire.


I built up a nice retirement fund from working long hours and overtime over the years. For the last 5 years Ive worked 80 hours almost every week, so overtime pay was big. Also been buying and renovating properties with my Dad and brother for years. Even went to the middle east for a while to work. All that burnt me out though.

Im going to do one last hoorah and go contracting for the next 2 years and put everything into pension fund.

Ive had enough now and retirement is like a sweet call to me.


I have a magic number to have stashed away between assets, savings and pension fund. When I hit that im out.

Lumen

It is extremely unusual to retire at 40, and not just for financial reasons. In fact the financial reasons are usually an excuse, since once you own outright an appropriate house (with low running costs) you can survive on state benefits.

Almost everyone needs a sense of purpose to be happy, and that sense of purpose usually comes from doing productive, useful work, where that usefulness and productivity is metred through the proxy of being paid. So most people who quit their job young end up switching to something else, and that's not retirement, that's a career switch.

It's often the case that the less you get paid the less control you have over your working existence, so by taking a pay cut you may actually be increasing your stress levels. The grass always looks greener.

But there are plenty of people who take a less demanding job in the same field for less pay, e.g. doctors switching from hospital work to general practice, which is incredibly common.

Also, that six figure salary seems like a lot when you're twenty something, but just wait until you have kids. :pac:

air

I think for the majority of people that target very early retirement, their aim isn't to do effectively nothing in retirement like someone retiring in their 60s might.

It's more-so about financial independence, having the option to travel, partake in hobbies or interests or choose work that interests oneself instead of that which pays the best.
Really just achieving total freedom and personal autonomy.

It's definitely something that would interest me personally and I would like to retire in this sense as soon as possible.

Life is short and if you can avoid spending as much as possible of your healthy years in a day job, all the better.

Lumen

air wrote: »

I think for the majority of people that target very early retirement, their aim isn't to do effectively nothing in retirement like someone retiring in their 60s might.

It's more-so about financial independence, having the option to travel, partake in hobbies or interests or choose work that interests oneself instead of that which pays the best.
Really just achieving total freedom and personal autonomy.

It's definitely something that would interest me personally and I would like to retire in this sense as soon as possible.

Life is short and if you can avoid spending as much as possible of your healthy years in a day job, all the better.

LOL, do you actually know any sixty-somethings? People don't usually slow down until their mobility is impaired in late 70s/early 80s.

StupidLikeAFox

Top chief wrote: »

Nice so what jobs are paying 10k a month apart from a consultant or judge.
I thought I was doing well with 4,800 a month . (Facepalm)

10k a month is 120k per year - not unheard of in multinationals in loads of types of jobs. The average pay in Facebook Ireland is 154k

air

Lumen wrote: »

LOL, do you actually know any sixty-somethings? People don't usually slow down until their mobility is impaired in late 70s/early 80s.

I know loads as it happens, many of whom would be very active relative to the majority of their age group.
This doesn't change the fact that they're elderly & limited by this in what they can do.

Uvex

Retire as 65. At best you might get 15 years of of freedom before old age really kicks in at 80.

Doesn't sound to appealing to me. 55 is my target.

Get out healthy.... Travel, enjoy your own time, do what you want when you want.

Each to their own though.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Ive been really examining this even more the last few months.
The way I figure it, you need to replace your normal outgoings with your new retirement income plus a buffer. Dont need €2M at all........................

Indeed, outside of a mortgage/rent most folk can get along well on under €2k/month.

That said at 4% burn you'd want €600k and no dependants ........ add in some dependants and you are looking at a bigger wad of course.

Anyone retired early who has inclination of claiming the a contributory pension would also have to consider making voluntary PRSI contibutions

air

Even a very modest side gig in retirement (say something bringing in 10k/year) really helps stretch the money too.

I'd imagine most professionals with the skills to pull off very early retirement could do this easily, working occasionally when it suited.

In this regard Ireland is a great location as taxes are almost nil on any income up to 18k.

Added to this we have very low property taxes, if you're asset rich with low outgoings (home paid off, no lifestyle inflation etc) it would help make it very doable.

air

air wrote: »

Even a very modest side gig in retirement (say something bringing in 10k/year) really helps stretch the money too...........

Indeed, I'm hoping to have enough in the pension pot to take the foot off the peddle work wise at 50. I don't intend retiring as such just not staying on the road I'm on