Best Career : Employment rate and Pay

salonfire

History Queen wrote: »

But you're being selective in your "facts". You need to make it explicitly clear that by your calculations a teacher is on the same monthly salary as a software engineer for 9 months of the year but for the remaining three months the teacher has no salary and the software engineer stays at the same level.

I can't help it if the concept or calculation is beyond you.

For each month actually spent working, the grad teacher and grad software engineer at Google are on the same monthly salary.

It really is a simple calculation.

Interested Observer

Wompa1 wrote: »

That's not how our tax system works. It's not 40% tax on the entire 100k

If you're on 100k gross your net pay is 61,488.

wonski

Net pay depends on many factors incl marital status/tax credits allocation/pension etc.

That's why gross salary is fair indication of what you earn. Net pay is variable.

Carl D

Interested Observer wrote: »

If you're on 100k gross your net pay is 61,488.

Thank you . They obviously don't no how our tax systems work

Interested Observer

wonski wrote: »

Net pay depends on many factors incl marital status/tax credits allocation/pension etc.

That's why gross salary is fair indication of what you earn. Net pay is variable.

This along with your previous post is really just being obtuse. If you earn 100k gross then 60k net is a more than fair approximation.

JimmyVik

ronivek wrote: »

It should also be noted that total renumeration for many in the large multinationals will be higher than just the salary alone. In my last position stocks were awarded up to 40% of the value of my yearly salary; and an additional cash bonus was available up to 33% of my salary. Add to that other perks such as paid lunches, free snacks and drinks, dental insurance, health insurance, etc.

Good point. A lot of companies pay into pensions too. Mine pays in 10% - 15% depending on how much I pay in myself.

wonski

Interested Observer wrote: »

This along with your previous post is really just being obtuse. If you earn 100k gross then 60k net is a more than fair approximation.

I didn't have any previous post re taxation. I just added a little comment, but never said that calculation was wrong. Was just very specific rounded up to single euro so just mentioned that it can vary a bit

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Good point. A lot of companies pay into pensions too. Mine pays in 10% - 15% depending on how much I pay in myself.

And if you're a company director your company can pay into your executive OPS say.... 30k and your gross pay wouldn't even mention it as its the employers contribution, much like the 10 to 15% you mention.

Wompa1

Interested Observer wrote: »

If you're on 100k gross your net pay is 61,488.

You're right. I was thinking married. Not single.

Interested Observer

wonski wrote: »

I didn't have any previous post re taxation. I just added a little comment, but never said that calculation was wrong. Was just very specific rounded up to single euro so just mentioned that it can vary a bit

Ah right sorry, the other poster had a really similar username. My mistake.

air

Augeo wrote: »

And if you're a company director your company can pay into your executive OPS say.... 30k and your gross pay wouldn't even mention it as its the employers contribution, much like the 10 to 15% you mention.

There are revenue limits on the employers contribution also based on a percentage of salary, similar to a PAYE employee's personal contribution.

air

air wrote: »

There are revenue limits on the employers contribution also based on a percentage of salary, similar to a PAYE employee's personal contribution.

There are indeed limits but they dwarf the employees contribution limits.
They are based on more than salary percentage.

The maximum contributions that can be paid to your scheme by you and/or your employer will depend on your personal circumstances, including company service and salary, and may be restricted by Revenue limits. There is a maximum fund threshold for Occupational Pensions known as the Standard Fund Threshold. This is currently (January 2015) set at €2.0 million.

air

They're not much different at all to a PAYE employee contributing their max percentage.
The maximum fund limit of 2 million is just a cap on the total amount that you can contribute in your lifetime, applies equally to everyone IIRC.

One advantage of an executive scheme is that you can carry your allowances forward for previous years if you have service for which you didn't contribute to a pension in.
I'm not sure this is available to PAYE workers.

air

air wrote: »

They're not much different at all to a PAYE employee contributing their max percentage.
The maximum fund limit of 2 million is just a cap on the total amount that you can contribute in your lifetime, applies equally to everyone IIRC.

........

The amounts you can get into an executive pension are far in excess of the max % of salary an employee can contribute as the employer contribution can be much greater.

If you've an executive pension the company makes the contributions.... You'd be insane to make employee contributions and lose 12% relief.


There is an earnings cap of €115,000 for personal contributions, there is no cap for Employer pension contributions.

In approximate terms it can be funded x4 times the max % you refer to.

The 2m is a fund threshold not a contribution threshold.

air

Right you are, the limits I referred to were for personal contributions to the schemes.
What's the 12% you refer to?

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

I can't help it if the concept or calculation is beyond you.

For each month actually spent working, the grad teacher and grad software engineer at Google are on the same monthly salary.

It really is a simple calculation.

So have you any experience of talking to a 'grad teacher' who's getting 50k age 22?

I know a guy who got €100 euro for showing some tourists around Dublin for 2 hours.... Wow! That's like 7000 a month ... and he wouldn't be working weekends which could be doing some other work!! I better tell him give up the business degree he's doing.

salonfire

Treppen wrote: »

So have you any experience of talking to a 'grad teacher' who's getting 50k age 22?

Nope, But i do know a recent primary school teacher graduate who has full hours making the same monthly salary as a Google developer for each month working.

Teachers are quick to point to salaries of other professions but quiet to accept other professions actually work months longer.

Treppen wrote: »

I know a guy who got €100 euro for showing some tourists around Dublin for 2 hours.... Wow! That's like 7000 a month ... and he wouldn't be working weekends which could be doing some other work!! I better tell him give up the business degree he's doing.

If he can make it consistent and be sure of tourists on a wet, cold November morning, yes you'd better tell him.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Nope, But i do know a recent primary school teacher graduate who has full hours making the same monthly salary as a Google developer for each month working.

Teachers are quick to point to salaries of other professions but quiet to accept other professions actually work months longer.

Just a quick reminder that the average salary in Google Dublin is €114k, or was four years ago, so you can probably add another 10%-20% there now.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/ireland-s-top-tech-companies-who-pays-the-most-1.2526778
That's a lot of months there.

ronivek

salonfire wrote: »

Nope, But i do know a recent primary school teacher graduate who has full hours making the same monthly salary as a Google developer for each month working.

Pretty sure that's not even close to being true. It's possible for a Software Developer Intern who is still in college; although even then unlikely.

Also even if it were true that the salaries were equivalent; even Graduate roles have significantly higher remuneration due to stock and cash bonuses, pension contributions, and various other perks that have been mentioned in this thread.

As an aside can anyone explain to me why there's a small group of people who seem to have it in for the teaching profession in this country and attempt to attack it at any opportunity? Did they get shouted at too many times when they were in school?

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Nope, But i do know a recent primary school teacher graduate who has full hours making the same monthly salary as a Google developer for each month working.

Somebody (my guess is the developer considering teacher salaries are known) is telling you porkies. Does the Software Developer owe you money

air

air wrote: »

Right you are, the limits I referred to were for personal contributions to the schemes.
What's the 12% you refer to?

Company contribs to executive pension are in the case of owner directors effectively 52% tax relief..... Employee contribs are 40%.

schmoo2k

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just read this and you could be me talking.
I chased the money in IT for years.
Its not what it used to be and I find myself burnt out at 40 years of age.
I used to love what I did. About 10 years ago it seemed to change and I have gone to the other extreme. Hate it.
I would love a job stacking shelves or something.
But I have decided if I keep up where I am for another 5 years I could just retire and forget about any kind of working stress after that.
The money is great but the job satisfaction went away a little while ago.
If I retired I could actually work picking strawberries somewhere if I felt like it, or just go on a holiday at days notice. So different. ah the thoughts of it.

Another old timer Software Developer here - with a few thoughts for those who think they might like it as a career:

• It suites some folks and not others (this can not be emphasised enough)
• Computer Science in UCC had the largest drop out rate of any course there - this IMO is not a reflection on the subject or lecturers, but more an indictment on our Leaving Certificate / Points Race and the emphasis on memorization and not on "logic". IMO its the type of course that warrants an aptitude test as part of the admission process.
• Here are some traits I look for when interviewing folks for a Software Developer position:
  - Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko)
  - Do they spot patterns in ordinary every day things
  - Are they musical, play an instrument
  - Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools
  - Do they follow tech news
  - Do they program as a hobby
  - Do they do electronics as a hobby
  - Do they like Sci Fi
  - Are they competitive (not so much in the sports sense, but more in the "I like to know more about XYZ than the next person")

The thing about the above traits (and I know your not going to tick every box) is that for some folks its just how they are wired and for them developing software is fun / easy / challenging, all at the same time.

I could also list anti-traits, but you get the idea...

schmoo2k

schmoo2k wrote: »

Another old timer Software Developer here - with a few thoughts for those who think they might like it as a career:
....................

That's very interesting, I had to do some programming as part of an applied science degree and didn't take to it at all...........

I'd answer no to all of the following..........

- Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko)
- Are they musical, play an instrument
- Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools
- Do they follow tech news
- Do they program as a hobby
- Do they do electronics as a hobby
- Do they like Sci Fi

JimmyVik

schmoo2k wrote: »

Another old timer Software Developer here - with a few thoughts for those who think they might like it as a career:

• It suites some folks and not others (this can not be emphasised enough)
• Computer Science in UCC had the largest drop out rate of any course there - this IMO is not a reflection on the subject or lecturers, but more an indictment on our Leaving Certificate / Points Race and the emphasis on memorization and not on "logic". IMO its the type of course that warrants an aptitude test as part of the admission process.
• Here are some traits I look for when interviewing folks for a Software Developer position:
  - Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko)
  - Do they spot patterns in ordinary every day things
  - Are they musical, play an instrument
  - Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools
  - Do they follow tech news
  - Do they program as a hobby
  - Do they do electronics as a hobby
  - Do they like Sci Fi
  - Are they competitive (not so much in the sports sense, but more in the "I like to know more about XYZ than the next person")

The thing about the above traits (and I know your not going to tick every box) is that for some folks its just how they are wired and for them developing software is fun / easy / challenging, all at the same time.

I could also list anti-traits, but you get the idea...

We had 50% of the class drop out in first year.
Dont get me wrong, I love tech and software development, but nowadays its just ruined with red tape and beurocracy. Too many chiefs all looking to their own ends.
The creativity and spark went out of it maybe 5 - 10 years ago.
I just lost the fondness for it over the years. The industry has changed. It is no longer for the likes of me. I have changed too I guess. I am no longer up for putting up with the corporate bs that goes on. I was actually going to go back to contracting just before Covid. I probably will after for a few years and then quit altogether.



If I was to answer your questions at your interview.


- Do they like puzzle games (chess, suduko) - Yes
- Do they spot patterns in ordinary every day things - Yes
- Are they musical, play an instrument - No
- Are they early adopters of new tech / gadgets / software libraries + tools - Yes
- Do they follow tech news - Used to devour it. Not really as much anymore
- Do they program as a hobby - Yes
- Do they do electronics as a hobby - Yes
- Do they like Sci Fi - YEs
- Are they competitive (not so much in the sports sense, but more in the "I like to know more about XYZ than the next person") - Yes

salonfire

Deleted User wrote: »

Somebody (my guess is the developer considering teacher salaries are known) is telling you porkies. Does the Software Developer owe you money

Quite surprising how many teachers in this thread aren't aware of how their salaries are paid and unable to grasp a simple calculation and accept facts. It is a fact teachers are paid for a 9 month year for which they work 9 months.

I hope they aren't so obtuse in the classroom !

In order to compare the jobs, break it down to the monthly income for the time spent working.

I'll quote it again:

Teachers: €37000 over 9 months is €4110 per month. More with options to correct exams.

The Engineer: €50000 over 12 months is €4116 per month. Any extra hours will be unpaid.

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Quite surprising how many teachers in this thread aren't aware of how their salaries are paid and unable to grasp a simple calculation and accept facts. It is a fact teachers are paid for a 9 month year for which they work 9 months.

I hope they aren't so obtuse in the classroom !

In order to compare the jobs, break it down to the monthly income for the time spent working.

I'll quote it again:

Teachers: €37000 over 9 months is €4110 per month. More with options to correct exams.

The Engineer: €50000 over 12 months is €4116 per month. Any extra hours will be unpaid.

Regardless there are 12 months in the year and bills and mortgages continue in the summer holidays. Taking 3 months "unpaid" holidays based on your "logic" isnt a choice teachers have - schools are closed and they are out of work for that time as a result. No need to be rude just because people don't agree with you.

Unknownability

air wrote: »

The maximum fund limit of 2 million is just a cap on the total amount that you can contribute in your lifetime, applies equally to everyone IIRC.

Without going wildly off topic, the max fund isn't based on contributions it is based on value. When they were lowering the limits you could apply for an exemption if you were over the limit.

djan

Deleted User wrote: »

Regardless there are 12 months in the year and bills and mortgages continue in the summer holidays. Taking 3 months "unpaid" holidays based on your "logic" isnt a choice teachers have - schools are closed and they are out of work for that time as a result. No need to be rude just because people don't agree with you.

You can't really "regardless" that argument away. If a teach does not want to get additional work to fund their 3 months off, they will just budget.

Most teachers I know of would take up additional work for a month or so and then go travel. While it is not a job for everyone, the work/life balance is one of the best out there for relatively little professional qualifications and experience.

Treppen

djan wrote: »

You can't really "regardless" that argument away. If a teach does not want to get additional work to fund their 3 months off, they will just budget.

Most teachers I know of would take up additional work for a month or so and then go travel. While it is not a job for everyone, the work/life balance is one of the best out there for relatively little professional qualifications and experience.

I don't think 6 years professional qualification as a basic entry requirement is very little. Plus if you want to get promotion the 2 year post grad is standard (unless you get a tap on the shoulder).

salonfire

Deleted User wrote: »

Regardless there are 12 months in the year and bills and mortgages continue in the summer holidays. Taking 3 months "unpaid" holidays based on your "logic" isnt a choice teachers have - schools are closed and they are out of work for that time as a result. No need to be rude just because people don't agree with you.

There are options for teachers to take on additional work during the summer, including July Provision, supervision of exams and marking.