How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Nqp15hhu

It is truly bizarre when someone thinks that you want to remain part of the country you were born in because you hate another country. Don’t be obscene.

Irish Nationalists still don’t understand Unionism or Northern Irish people. The U.K. is our country, stop pretending that, that idea is a joke and we are all pulling a parody over. No, we’re not.

This is exactly my point about Irish people not respecting Northern Ireland’s existence and talking down to us. And it’s exactly why Northern Ireland exists, you clearly don’t understand the politics and culture here.

lurleen lumpkin

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

It is truly bizarre when someone thinks that you want to remain part of the country you were born in because you hate another country. Don’t be obscene.

Irish Nationalists still don’t understand Unionism or Northern Irish people. The U.K. is our country, stop pretending that, that idea is a joke and we are all pulling a parody over. No, we’re not.

This is exactly my point about Irish people not respecting Northern Ireland’s existence and talking down to us. And it’s exactly why Northern Ireland exists, you clearly don’t understand the politics and culture here.

I think the posters here from the south have a pretty good grasp on your politics and culture. If not can you give some pointers?

Kermit.de.frog

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

This is exactly my point about Irish people not respecting Northern Ireland’s existence

Why should we when no one else - even the British government - does? They stuck a border in the Irish sea. They didn't think twice.

I'm reminded of what a senior advisor to Blair said of the GFA - "it's not permanent, it's a message - 'it's time to go'".

I don't want to upset you but look at how you are being treated.

If a girlfriend treated you that way how long would you be together?

briany

downcow wrote: »

I am frustrated that the Roi outmanoeuvred boris etc, and frustrated that they bastardised the Belfast Agreement in the process.

The Irish Sea border will be sorted. We have learnt from the shinners and will jump up and down until it is.

I am not having sleepless nights if that is your concern

We have boris making boobs. You have mary Robinson

To put this simply, you cannot have a hard Brexit without destabilising Northern Ireland to some extent. A border had to go somewhere and one half of the NI population was going to be unhappy, broadly speaking. Probably the main reason why it was a sea border was because a sea border is not as porous as the land one. It represents the least bad option in the circumstances.

The DUP can jump up and down all they like. They may not have read the small print on this, but the NI protocol will not be repealed if they can beat Sinn Fein in an aerobics contest.

Nqp15hhu

Err there’s more than the DUP unhappy. They aren’t the only Unionists or unionist representatives in Northern Ireland.

It’s not a hive mindset.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the purpose of 'Mary Robinson' was so that some of us posters would correct him and tell him the current President's name, then he could show off his indifference to 'de south'.

Wrong again Francie. I am very aware who your current President is and he seems a really good person. I mentioned Mary Robinson as she’s the one in the press currently for (at best) making a big boob and giving the Saudi king cover to abuse and probably murder his daughter

downcow

maccored wrote: »

Unionism got what unionism voted for. to be ****ed over by the british government - you know, the government you are all loyal to. time to wake up and smell the coffee - they dont want you.

Everyone else wants you to join a UI but for some reason you prefer the one who has ****ed you over. Pity unionism cant get over its hatred

You just don’t get what being british means.
Would it help if we used the example. If an Irish government you didn’t like brought in policies you didn’t like, would it drive you to disown your irishness and call for the whole island to join the UK. I think not.
This is what you are asking of Northern Irish british people. It’s just rediculous

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Err there’s more than the DUP unhappy. They aren’t the only Unionists or unionist representatives in Northern Ireland.

It’s not a hive mindset.

Jim Allister and UVF? The growing number of people voting Alliance who want to try and make the best of the situation that the DUP have got NI into?

downcow

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why should we when no one else - even the British government - does? They stuck a border in the Irish sea. They didn't think twice.

I'm reminded of what a senior advisor to Blair said of the GFA - "it's not permanent, it's a message - 'it's time to go'".

I don't want to upset you but look at how you are being treated.

If a girlfriend treated you that way how long would you be together?

She’s not our girlfriend. We are the one family. You were in our family but you ran off like the prodigal son 100 years ago and it seems fields are not so green without us. You now want us to leave our family and elope with you. Not a chance. I love my family and they also have a bigger house than you with more interesting diverse people and more opportunities
Not a chance

downcow

briany wrote: »

To put this simply, you cannot have a hard Brexit without destabilising Northern Ireland to some extent. A border had to go somewhere and one half of the NI population was going to be unhappy, broadly speaking. Probably the main reason why it was a sea border was because a sea border is not as porous as the land one. It represents the least bad option in the circumstances.

The DUP can jump up and down all they like. They may not have read the small print on this, but the NI protocol will not be repealed if they can beat Sinn Fein in an aerobics contest.

Very naive on reason for Irish Sea border. Do you really believe that?

jm08

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t get what being british means.
Would it help if we used the example. If an Irish government you didn’t like brought in policies you didn’t like, would it drive you to disown your irishness and call for the whole island to join the UK. I think not.
This is w nohat you are asking of Northern Irish british people. It’s just rediculous

No, that would not happen because if a government brought in policies that we didnt like, we have the ability to sack them.


On your point about identity, we would still be Irish no matter what the Government did or tried to do. Irish people who live in England are still Irish and the 220,000 British people who live in the ROI are still British.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Very naive on reason for Irish Sea border. Do you really believe that?

The might of the British Army could not monitor the border in Ireland, so you better believe that the EU isn't going to try.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Wrong again Francie. I am very aware who your current President is and he seems a really good person. I mentioned Mary Robinson as she’s the one in the press currently for (at best) making a big boob and giving the Saudi king cover to abuse and probably murder his daughter

What has that got to do with us though? This is a republic downcow...she isn't 'royalty, with a god given 'right' to deference and hat doffing from her subjects.

She is an individual citizen, equal to everyone else and accountable like everyone else for her individual actions. She wasn't 'representing' us and hasn't, since finishing her stint in office.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

You now want us to leave our family and elope with you.

We want that part of our country, you cleaved off, back. You're the baggage that will come with it but we mean you no harm despite the century of misery you've caused, and continue to cause, us.

ulster

downcow wrote: »

She’s not our girlfriend. We are the one family. You were in our family but you ran off like the prodigal son 100 years ago and it seems fields are not so green without us. You now want us to leave our family and elope with you. Not a chance. I love my family and they also have a bigger house than you with more interesting diverse people and more opportunities
Not a chance

The English, I'm not so sure they feel the same way about Northern Ireland.

Natterjack from Kerry

maccored wrote: »

Oxymoron much?

Not at all. Republican for the 26, Unionist for the 6.

I have never heard any united Ireland agitator truly explain the benefits of a UI. Usually they cannot better nonsense soundbites like, Brits out, or, a nation once again, or just, well, because.

The original partition was a good solution. The GFA was an improvement of it. The Brexit deal is a further improvement on it. If people would just shed the blinkers of past ideologies, they would realist that the current structure for the 7M Irish people on this island is very good.

FrancieBrady

The strategic blunders of Unionism laid bare again? This is all they will end up doing. The view of an NI academic.

A disingenuous and ill-advised legal wrangle will only highlight the fact that Northern Ireland is a place apart

https://www.businesspost.ie/brexit-extra/deirdre-heenan-dup-is-digging-itself-deeper-with-challenge-to-protocol-763e6315?utm_campaign=article&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=web

Natterjack from Kerry

ulster wrote: »

The English, I'm not so sure they feel the same way about Northern Ireland.

They dont. And no one in the NI is under any illusion that they do. But that does no mean there is any thing amiss with people in NI still wanting to be part of the UK. Its a great country, whether they really care about you or not. Republicans keep trotting out this argument as if, since the UK would jettison NI at the first opportunity if it could, then NI should leave, so they should join Eire. But thats nonsense - if you are happy in the UK whether they really want you or not, then why leave ? The republic has never been able to make any case to Unionists why they should join it.....because their isnt one.

jm08

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Not at all. Republican for the 26, Unionist for the 6.

I have never heard any united Ireland agitator truly explain the benefits of a UI. Usually they cannot better nonsense soundbites like, Brits out, or, a nation once again, or just, well, because.

The original partition was a good solution. The GFA was an improvement of it. The Brexit deal is a further improvement on it. If people would just shed the blinkers of past ideologies, they would realist that the current structure for the 7M Irish people on this island is very good.

Well, one thing at the moment that shines a light on having a land border on the island is the fact that we cannot take advantage of being an island in the current pandemic as the NI end of the island has pursued a different policy. This is likely to cause great difficulty as soon as everyone in NI is vaccinated when they open up everything while people south of the border may yet not be vaccinated. I think Boris is talking about opening up in the next month or so.



It doesn't help that beligerant unionism will do everything in its power to get a hard border.

Natterjack from Kerry

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We want that part of our country, you cleaved off, back.

But what is the point of that ? What does it do for you. Its not as if the 6 counties are assets to be reclaimed and shared out amonst the reclaimers. It would make zero difference to you. It belongs to the people that live there, no matter what. Not to you, or your country.

Sunny Disposition

downcow wrote: »

Well. I think most unionists recognise the advantageous position ni has been put in and that’s great. But the problem is the arrogance of Roi and Eu. They used the threat of violence to try and undermine our place in the union. They have manipulated things to place a border within the UK.
How would someone in cork feel if the UK said they wanted a border between cork and the rest of Roi, and to do otherwise would mean british far right organisations would go to war.

Ironically the arrangement pushes any chance of a UI into the distance. But unionists have every right to challenge the Irish Sea issues and to demand the Act of Unionists is not ignored

If they see the advantageous position why the hell are they so angry? Threats of violence against workers too. Really don’t understand that over something that is so technical.

jm08

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

But what is the point of that ? What does it do for you. Its not as if the 6 counties are assets to be reclaimed and shared out amonst the reclaimers. It would make zero difference to you. It belongs to the people that live there, no matter what. Not to you, or your country.

So, if that is the case, why do unionists have a problem with where their Government sits. Northern Ireland belongs to the people that live there, no matter what. Not to Boris or England.

Junkyard Tom

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

What does it do for you.

As Brexit has shown, the border is an ever-present sword of Damocles poised above the neck of the Irish nation. There were many unionists pulling-the-pelvis out of themselves at the thought of a hard border and the potential degeneration into a militarised frontier.

There will always be an element within Unionism that despises the fact that Ireland is uniting socially, economically, and psychologically, and will seize any opportunity to reverse it as the DUP's Brexit play has attempted.

That is the main reason but there are many many more.

Natterjack from Kerry

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

As Brexit has shown, the border is an ever-present sword of Damocles poised above the neck of the Irish nation. There were many unionists pulling-the-pelvis out of themselves at the thought of a hard border and the potential degeneration into a militarised frontier.

There will always be an element within Unionism that despises the fact that Ireland is uniting socially, economically, and psychologically, and will seize any opportunity to reverse it as the DUP's Brexit play has attempted.

That is the main reason but there are many many more.

That in no way explains what it does for you. Would it do anything at all ?

Natterjack from Kerry

jm08 wrote: »

So, if that is the case, why do unionists have a problem with where their Government sits. Northern Ireland belongs to the people that live there, no matter what. Not to Boris or England.

The discussion rolls much better if questions are answered, rather than simply question following question.

Junkyard Tom

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

That in no way explains what it does for you. Would it do anything at all ?

I'm part of the Irish nation, I have family on both sides of your precious border. That you either don't, or pretend not to, understand indicates you are either incapable of it, or you're a WUM.

Fionn1952

You must've missed it Downcow, could we get that clarification on who the current Tory and Labour Party supporters of the, 'potentially gamechanging' piece of legislation are?

ulster

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

It is truly bizarre when someone thinks that you want to remain part of the country you were born in because you hate another country. Don’t be obscene.

Irish Nationalists still don’t understand Unionism or Northern Irish people. The U.K. is our country, stop pretending that, that idea is a joke and we are all pulling a parody over. No, we’re not.

This is exactly my point about Irish people not respecting Northern Ireland’s existence and talking down to us. And it’s exactly why Northern Ireland exists, you clearly don’t understand the politics and culture here.

I disagree with this analysis. Our government removed the articles from the constitution which laid claim to NI, showing that we do have an sensitivity to the politics and culture up there. Furthermore the GFA underpins this, giving people up there the right to decide their constitutional future.

No one's going to force anyone into a UI.

ulster

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

They dont. And no one in the NI is under any illusion that they do. But that does no mean there is any thing amiss with people in NI still wanting to be part of the UK. Its a great country, whether they really care about you or not. Republicans keep trotting out this argument as if, since the UK would jettison NI at the first opportunity if it could, then NI should leave, so they should join Eire. But thats nonsense - if you are happy in the UK whether they really want you or not, then why leave ? The republic has never been able to make any case to Unionists why they should join it.....because their isnt one.

I don't think I'd be so naive to say outright that there are no good reasons for NI to join us.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

No, that would not happen because if a government brought in policies that we didnt like, we have the ability to sack them.

.

You are still not getting it. We can sack our government in exactly the same way as you can.
We is the UK.
In NI we can’t sack the UK government in the same way as cork or Connaught can’t sack the Irish government.

I think your contributions just demonstrate that you are looking through a 33 county Irish Republican prism and you just don’t understand what being part of the UK means