How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

The might of the British Army could not monitor the border in Ireland, so you better believe that the EU isn't going to try.

Well you can’t have it both ways. Some posters on here tell me it’s not the threat of violence that lead to the Irish Sea border.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Well you can’t have it both ways. Some posters on here tell me it’s not the threat of violence that lead to the Irish Sea border.

Typical belligerent Unionism again...turning a 'concern' about something into a 'threat'.

downcow

ulster wrote: »

The English, I'm not so sure they feel the same way about Northern Ireland.

Another typical Irish Republican sf ourselves alone view, who thinks all English people think the same

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Well, one thing at the moment that shines a light on having a land border on the island is the fact that we cannot take advantage of being an island in the current pandemic as the NI end of the island has pursued a different policy. This is likely to cause great difficulty as soon as everyone in NI is vaccinated when they open up everything while people south of the border may yet not be vaccinated. I think Boris is talking about opening up in the next month or so.
.

Haha. We all no the solution to that conundrum

Natterjack from Kerry

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm part of the Irish nation, I have family on both sides of your precious border. That you either don't, or pretend not to, understand indicates you are either incapable of it, or you're a WUM.

So proving my point, thank you. You can make no case. And are so blinkered that you think that someone who doesnt think as you do - even though you cannot backup the basis for your belief - must be a troll.

Do you not see the weakness of your position ?

Natterjack from Kerry

ulster wrote: »

I don't think I'd be so naive to say outright that there are no good reasons for NI to join us.

I didnt say there were no good reasons. I dont think anyone does.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Another typical Irish Republican sf ourselves alone view, who thinks all English people think the same

Polls inform policy and embolden politicians. May and Johnson felt able to jettison northern Ireland because they knew it didn't matter to most in Britain. See polls like these:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/22/brits-increasingly-dont-care-whether-northern-irel

Unionism needs to come to terms with that, realise it's place and decide if that is what it wants going forward.

As is said repeatedly, the world will move on, with or without.

In spite of its official name, the ‘Conservative and Unionist Party’ appears especially ambivalent to the end of the Union, with 53% of Conservative voters indicating they wouldn’t care if Northern Ireland left the UK.

briany

downcow wrote: »

Well you can’t have it both ways. Some posters on here tell me it’s not the threat of violence that lead to the Irish Sea border.

In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters declaring support of the proposed backstop of the time to Donald Tusk.

In 2016, 55 percent of the NI electorate voted to remain in the EU.

So, leaving threats of violence aside for a second, you don't seem to even be contemplating the idea that maybe there is majority support for NI remaining within the EU economic zone among both elected representatives and the public at large, and that this was a factor in the thinking when Boris went to Brussels.

Back to threats of violence, I'm not sure why you're talking about Varadkar bringing up the possibility of violence around a land border, but not mentioning that Arlene Foster had been meeting with Loyalist paramilitaries to discuss their concerns about the new arrangement NI finds itself in. I think the fact is that both sides have threatened to kick off wherever the border goes, so threats of violence is really a moot point.

In any event, there is no need for violence. There is a democratic mechanism in place to decide NI's continued use of the protocol. I suggest that it is used.

ulster

downcow wrote: »

Another typical Irish Republican sf ourselves alone view, who thinks all English people think the same

The vast majority of them don't even think about NI. Just look at the lead up to the Brexit referendum. The impact on Northern Ireland was a total after thought for them.

I'm no republican, but it's really annoying to me that the English can still have such a negative impact on our island, even in modern times.

Nqp15hhu

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t get what being british means.
Would it help if we used the example. If an Irish government you didn’t like brought in policies you didn’t like, would it drive you to disown your irishness and call for the whole island to join the UK. I think not.
This is what you are asking of Northern Irish british people. It’s just rediculous

People in ROI seem to struggle in recognising that people in NI do see their country as the U.K. that this is similar to a Dublin or Galway person not wanting trade barriers in their republic.

99nsr125

downcow wrote: »

Haha. We all no the solution to that conundrum

Have you heard the song downcow

To the tune of Happy Birthday

"Well . . .
there's a border in the sea
there's a border in the sea
there's a border in the sea
Thanks to the DUP"

More versus to come

Nqp15hhu

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We want that part of our country, you cleaved off, back. You're the baggage that will come with it but we mean you no harm despite the century of misery you've caused, and continue to cause, us.

Northern Ireland does not belong to you. You were not raised here, it’s not your cultural or upbringing, you were not alive during partition.

Nqp15hhu

jm08 wrote: »

Well, one thing at the moment that shines a light on having a land border on the island is the fact that we cannot take advantage of being an island in the current pandemic as the NI end of the island has pursued a different policy. This is likely to cause great difficulty as soon as everyone in NI is vaccinated when they open up everything while people south of the border may yet not be vaccinated. I think Boris is talking about opening up in the next month or so.



It doesn't help that beligerant unionism will do everything in its power to get a hard border.

Well this is the fault of the Irish government for not collaborating or working with the U.K. government. ROI always wants to do the opposite to the U.K.

Nqp15hhu

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

But what is the point of that ? What does it do for you. Its not as if the 6 counties are assets to be reclaimed and shared out amonst the reclaimers. It would make zero difference to you. It belongs to the people that live there, no matter what. Not to you, or your country.

No definitely not. He is an outsider for sure.

Nqp15hhu

ulster wrote: »

I disagree with this analysis. Our government removed the articles from the constitution which laid claim to NI, showing that we do have an sensitivity to the politics and culture up there. Furthermore the GFA underpins this, giving people up there the right to decide their constitutional future.

No one's going to force anyone into a UI.

Well the smug attitudes of Irish politicians, constantly going out of their way to rattle unionists says otherwise.

Nqp15hhu

ulster wrote: »

The vast majority of them don't even think about NI. Just look at the lead up to the Brexit referendum. The impact on Northern Ireland was a total after thought for them.

I'm no republican, but it's really annoying to me that the English can still have such a negative impact on our island, even in modern times.

The English have absolutely no impact on the ROI. They don’t even think about it.

Natterjack from Kerry

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

People in ROI seem to struggle in recognising that people in NI do see their country as the U.K.

I think probably a misleading impression there. Most people in RoI do indeed recognise that. But since they are not UI agitators, and perfectly happy with NI as part of the UK, you dont hear them. Nobody makes noise for the status quo. So you hear the vocal single digit percentage, making the usual tired cliches about reclaiming the 6 lost fields and all that. So people in NI are given a very skewed impression of the true views in Eire, which doesnt really reflect the overall attitude.

ulster

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Well the smug attitudes of Irish politicians, constantly going out of their way to rattle unionists says otherwise.

Ok, give us a couple of examples of Irish politicians going out of their way to rattle Unionists.

lurleen lumpkin

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No definitely not. He is an outsider for sure.

I'm Irish. I live in Antrim. Am I an outsider too?

ulster

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

The English have absolutely no impact on the ROI. They don’t even think about it.

Oh Yes, one hundred per cent agree, the last couple of years had absolutely zero impact on us. Haha.

briany

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

People in ROI seem to struggle in recognising that people in NI do see their country as the U.K. that this is similar to a Dublin or Galway person not wanting trade barriers in their republic.

Some people in NI see their country as the UK. Some would prefer it if NI joined the RoI, so there's no real prizes for guessing what the latter group's preference is viz-a-vis where the border goes.

jm08

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The discussion rolls much better if questions are answered, rather than simply question following question.

I answered directly and you ignored the answer.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

You are still not getting it. We can sack our government in exactly the same way as you can.
We is the UK.
In NI we can’t sack the UK government in the same way as cork or Connaught can’t sack the Irish government.

I think your contributions just demonstrate that you are looking through a 33 county Irish Republican prism and you just don’t understand what being part of the UK means

No you can't. We don't have a fixed term parliament for starters. Secondly, with the party system down here and no one with an outright majority, its pretty easy to keep the Government from losing the run of themselves. Boris would never get away as much as he does if he was Taoiseach.



Then, when it comes to Constitutional change, there has to be a referendum which is binding.

Sunny Disposition

downcow wrote: »

You are still not getting it. We can sack our government in exactly the same way as you can.
We is the UK.
In NI we can’t sack the UK government in the same way as cork or Connaught can’t sack the Irish government.

I think your contributions just demonstrate that you are looking through a 33 county Irish Republican prism and you just don’t understand what being part of the UK means

Does the big parties in the UK not being a factor in the North bother Unionists Downcow? It does seem a bit odd that you can’t vote for the party that the PM and cabinet members will come from. There is a certain democratic deficit there.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Well you can’t have it both ways. Some posters on here tell me it’s not the threat of violence that lead to the Irish Sea border.

It was the PSNI telling a Commons Select Committee in 2017 that a land border beween ROI and NI would lead to trouble.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/northern-irish-border-terror-target-police-chief-warns-brexit

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

People in ROI seem to struggle in recognising that people in NI do see their country as the U.K. that this is similar to a Dublin or Galway person not wanting trade barriers in their republic.

No, it would be more like stuff being checked in Galway port coming/going from Aran Islands (sea border already there). People still have freedom of movement between the islands.



It is nothing at all like having land checks.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

No you can't. We don't have a fixed term parliament for starters. Secondly, with the party system down here and no one with an outright majority, its pretty easy to keep the Government from losing the run of themselves. Boris would never get away as much as he does if he was Taoiseach.


Then, when it comes to Constitutional change, there has to be a referendum which is binding.

Well why did your government not regard the Belfast agreement referendum as binding then?

FairCityFanboy

This is not the time for this kind of discussion, sir.

downcow

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Does the big parties in the UK not being a factor in the North bother Unionists Downcow? It does seem a bit odd that you can’t vote for the party that the PM and cabinet members will come from. There is a certain democratic deficit there.

People can vote for the tories at every election they wish. They just chose not to. You could argue similar for Scotland.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Well why did your government not regard the Belfast agreement referendum as binding then?

The GFA is an international agreement between two countries, UK and Ireland. Both the British Gov. and the Irish Gov. consider the agreement as unchanged by the NI Protocol. Its up to those in the UK to challenge the British Gov. in the courts if they think it has been broken as the British Gov. & the EU agreed to the Northern Ireland protocol.