How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

You lost the discussion when you used punching different people as an example having different degrees of acceptability imo.The comments about the Geneva Convention didn't apply either as was pointed out to you.
Your continued refusal to admit you probably got it wrong speaks volumes.

You think that the atrocities of Bloody Sunday parts 1 & 2 were legitimate from a British State POV.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You think that the atrocities of Bloody Sunday parts 1 & 2 were legitimate from a British State POV.

I don't believe there is sufficient evidence to definitively say what exactly happened during the original bloody sunday as there are conflicting accounts and it was so long ago.
The deaths during the 1972 incident were terrible.
Although the recent republican witch hunt of an elderly,sick soldier f is in stark contrast to the former ira killer ivor bell who openly described himself as a soldier,who was spared any further action due to his poor health.

"Ivor Bell: The former IRA leader who split with Sinn Féin - BBC News" https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-50068277

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You think that the atrocities of Bloody Sunday parts 1 & 2 were legitimate from a British State POV.

Bonnie any chance of telling me if you feel the post you affirmed, describing michael stone, applies equally to ira members?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't believe there is sufficient evidence to definitively say what exactly happened during the original bloody sunday as there are conflicting accounts and it was so long ago.
The deaths during the 1972 incident were terrible.
Although the recent republican witch hunt of an elderly,sick soldier f is in stark contrast to the former ira killer ivor bell who openly described himself as a soldier,who was spared any further action due to his poor health.

"Ivor Bell: The former IRA leader who split with Sinn Féin - BBC News" https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-50068277

Both decisions were taken by British courts. But your ire is reserved for 'republican witch hunters'? That would be typical alright.

Nqp15hhu

jm08 wrote: »

Relationships between the two islands were excellent up to Brexit. We are angry in the ROI because unionists pursued Brexit with a hope that a hard border would be restored on the island of Ireland.



After the Brexit vote, Enda Kenny tried to set up an All-Ireland forum to try and make Brexit work for the island of Ireland and Arlene refused to take part.


We'd love to be able to align with the UK - but we can't ride both horses. We have to choose and we have chosen the one that makes us most prosperious.

I don’t think they were though. ROI still had limited trust of the U.K. government and continued with the Britain is evil rhetoric.

You still had people wheeling out the 800 years Chestnut too.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I don’t think they were though. ROI still had limited trust of the U.K. government and continued with the Britain is evil rhetoric.

You still had people wheeling out the 800 years Chestnut too.

The British (government) do not deserve the trust of anyone on the island of Ireland quite frankly.

Nqp15hhu

Hmmm. Clearly a long way to go for people down south to have a think and adjust their attitudes to be more understanding of Unionism and Unionist people.

Completely out of place with Northern Irish people. You seem almost as bitter as Nationalists here. So why would anyone want to become part of that?

It’s just pure anti British hatred just for the sake of it, it’s not something I am willing to stand for, nor do I want to be part of it!

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I don’t think they were though. ROI still had limited trust of the U.K. government and continued with the Britain is evil rhetoric.

You still had people wheeling out the 800 years Chestnut too.

You see this is typical of unionists. You claim the ROI didn't try and reach out and when produced with a direct quote from Arlene Foster telling Enda to mind his own business, you somehow claim that its all the ROI's fault because Arlene wouldn't have anything to do with the ROI to try and come to some solutions.


Can you admit that you are wrong making this claim?

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Hmmm. Clearly a long way to go for people down south to have a think and adjust their attitudes to be more understanding of Unionism and Unionist people.

Completely out of place with Northern Irish people. You seem almost as bitter as Nationalists here. So why would anyone want to become part of that?

It’s just pure anti British hatred just for the sake of it, it’s not something I am willing to stand for, nor do I want to be part of it!

I think we understand unionism and unionist people far too well. And thats a problem for the unionism and British Government, not us.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Hmmm. Clearly a long way to go for people down south to have a think and adjust their attitudes to be more understanding of Unionism and Unionist people.

Completely out of place with Northern Irish people. You seem almost as bitter as Nationalists here. So why would anyone want to become part of that?

It’s just pure anti British hatred just for the sake of it, it’s not something I am willing to stand for, nor do I want to be part of it!

The British are not trusted by us and the rest of our EU partners. That Unionism still trusts them after being openly shafted again and again is for them to come to terms with. For so long as they don't, then they will not be trusted or respected here.

Nqp15hhu

jm08 wrote: »

You see this is typical of unionists. You claim the ROI didn't try and reach out and when produced with a direct quote from Arlene Foster telling Enda to mind his own business, you somehow claim that its all the ROI's fault because Arlene wouldn't have anything to do with the ROI to try and come to some solutions.


Can you admit that you are wrong making this claim?

I am referring to the Irish Government’s and the Irish people’s attitude towards the United Kingdom.

Nqp15hhu

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The British are not trusted by us and the rest of our EU partners. That Unionism still trusts them after being openly shafted again and again is for them to come to terms with. For so long as they don't, then they will not be trusted or respected here.

So what is your solution? To pretend the United Kingdom doesn’t exist and continue with pure bitterness?

Again this is not something I want to be part of and I will not endorse it.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

So what is your solution? To pretend the United Kingdom doesn’t exist and continue with pure bitterness?

Again this is not something I want to be part of and I will not endorse it.

It isn't bitterness.

The solution is we proceed in our relationship with the rest of the EU. When Britain wants to be a trusted neighbour then we can work together. Until then - arms length.
We can't make the british government trustworthy so we can only hold them to the agreements they signed, with us and with us as a member of the EU. Unionism may or may not get sense.

Nqp15hhu

Eugh pure arrogance and ignorance.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Eugh pure arrogance and ignorance.

What?

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

So what is your solution? To pretend the United Kingdom doesn’t exist and continue with pure bitterness?

Again this is not something I want to be part of and I will not endorse it.

Who is pretending the UK doesn't exist and how is it manifesting itself?

What are you not endorsing or be part of?

What is your solution to the trade issues for the island of Ireland because of the UK's withdrawal from the EU?

Nqp15hhu

jm08 wrote: »

Who is pretending the UK doesn't exist and how is it manifesting itself?

What are you not endorsing or be part of?

What is your solution to the trade issues for the island of Ireland because of the UK's withdrawal from the EU?

Anti-British sentiment and an obsession with diverging from GB in every form.

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Anti-British sentiment and an obsession with diverging from GB in every form.

What bit of BRITAIN MADE A CHOICE TO DIVERGE is difficult to understand? Ireland has continued along the same course, Britain voted for Brexit and then their elected representatives decided that meant an arms length relationship with the EU. What do you want? Ireland to jump off the cliff with you?!

Ireland has been happy to be in a close economic and political relationship with the UK since the CTA arrangements in 1952, that continued with both joining the EEC and continuing as members of the EU....remind me who changed the nature of that relationship? It takes a serious pair of balls and a whole heap of good old British exceptionalism to try and paint that as an Irish insistence on divergence.

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Anti-British sentiment and an obsession with diverging from GB in every form.

We're not diverging from GB, its the other way around. GB is diverging from EU (& Ireland) In fact, we're rather annoyed with the UK's Brexit negotiations with the EU because of the hassle it causes us.


The UK (May) & EU negotiated a deal that would have meant that there would not have been a border in the Irish Sea and guess what, unionists rejected it.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Anti-British sentiment and an obsession with diverging from GB in every form.

What are you doing about anti-Irish sentiment ahead of a UI?

FrancieBrady

You have to wonder why Ben Lowry is allowed on the airwaves pretending to be a newspaper editor, he is an out and out Unionist spokesman...about as neutral a voice as Paisley was.

No issue with him being a Unionist and expressing his opinion, I just think it undermines the press and media.

Natterjack from Kerry

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie any chance of telling me if you feel the post you affirmed, describing michael stone, applies equally to ira members?

Possibly not, at this stage. The weakness of much republican thinking is that it is no more sophisticated than - we're the good guys, they're the bad guys. Genuinely considering the matter with some smattering of intelligent analysis as you are asking for, is not really in their comprehension.

RobMc59

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Possibly not, at this stage. The weakness of much republican thinking is that it is no more sophisticated than - we're the good guys, they're the bad guys. Genuinely considering the matter with some smattering of intelligent analysis as you are asking for, is not really in their comprehension.

Slightly different subject but if you mention paying for a UI they either think the UK,EU or US should pay.That`s if they have even considered it at all....The financial ramifications don`t come into it.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Slightly different subject but if you mention paying for a UI they either think the UK,EU or US should pay.That`s if they have even considered it at all....The financial ramifications don`t come into it.

oh Rob, have you sunk this low? There isn't a single Republican voice that has said that.
If you disagree, gwan and link to one saying it.

Nqp15hhu

jm08 wrote: »

We're not diverging from GB, its the other way around. GB is diverging from EU (& Ireland) In fact, we're rather annoyed with the UK's Brexit negotiations with the EU because of the hassle it causes us.


The UK (May) & EU negotiated a deal that would have meant that there would not have been a border in the Irish Sea and guess what, unionists rejected it.

I didn’t refer to the EU. I was talking about simple things such as:

- Having GMT +1 as the standard timezone.
- Using Euros.
- Not joining any wars.

I would think there would be even more divergence on things like Plug types, LHD vehicles if NI did not exist.

By the way, nobody rejected any deal. We in Northern Ireland didn’t get to vote on any of these deals.

That’s what irks me so much when you have all these politicians coming out talking about the support it has.

maccored

RobMc59 wrote: »

Slightly different subject but if you mention paying for a UI they either think the UK,EU or US should pay.That`s if they have even considered it at all....The financial ramifications don`t come into it.

personally i'd want to get the country discussing the issue first rather than putting the cart before the horse. discuss the idea, discuss what it would look like and from that how it would be financed.

if the world thought like you nothing would ever ever be done and we'd be living in thr stone age - 'we cant do that because [insert barrier/obstactle here]'

Nqp15hhu

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are you doing about anti-Irish sentiment ahead of a UI?

Nothing. It’s up to you to compromise. I’m not the one that wants a United Ireland.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Slightly different subject but if you mention paying for a UI they either think the UK,EU or US should pay.That`s if they have even considered it at all....The financial ramifications don`t come into it.

Imagine mismanaging a place SO badly that it costs a few billion a year to subsidise and then boasting about it, and criticising the people who suggest an entire economic reform, with investment to get the place self sufficient.....all the while lying to misrepresent what those people have suggested.

Honestly, if the best Unionism has to offer is, 'we f*cked it so bad you can't afford it', that isn't the super selling point you think it is.

Nqp15hhu

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have to wonder why Ben Lowry is allowed on the airwaves pretending to be a newspaper editor, he is an out and out Unionist spokesman...about as neutral a voice as Paisley was.

No issue with him being a Unionist and expressing his opinion, I just think it undermines the press and media.

And the likes of Allison Morris isn’t a Nationalist equivalent?

Nqp15hhu

RobMc59 wrote: »

Slightly different subject but if you mention paying for a UI they either think the UK,EU or US should pay.That`s if they have even considered it at all....The financial ramifications don`t come into it.

You know I wouldn’t put it past the EU to have a United Ireland as a long term own goal. A lot of external parties seem to have a vested interest in it happening (democrats in the USA).

And don’t want to engage with Unionist people (not just the DUP)