How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You have quite a binary attitude to life. You also have amazing confidence that the EU will not use common sense and compromise.
If life was that simple then you wouldn’t need any popcorn

The EU will do what I am doing...grab the popcorn and stand back and watch.

This is just more intra UK bitching and arguing as it breaks up.

When it's over, the separation of NI from the rest of the UK will be copperfastened or if Arlene and Co win the question for the UK will be the same as the one the Protocol was the answer to.
In which case I would say the rest of the UK will swap the place for a bag of popcorn.

Five Eighth

Ulster Unionists heading for a truly ironic position - 'Ourselves Alone' - irony of ironies.

By the way, a very good documentary on the 1916 Rising showing on PBS America TV channel - narrated by...Liam Neeson.

FrancieBrady

Has anyone found out who the 'other unionists' are?

Kermit.de.frog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has anyone found out who the 'other unionists' are?

Ben Habib

No really

Five Eighth

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has anyone found out who the 'other unionists' are?

The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), Ulster Unionists (UUP) and Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) have said they are supporting judicial review proceedings.

Former MEP Ben Habib and Labour MP Kate Hoey are also backing it.

DUP leader Arlene Foster said they were committed to challenging the NI Protocol "in the courts, in Parliament, in Stormont and in Brussels".

She added that the judicial review proceedings will challenge the NI Protocol's "compatibility with the Act of Union 1800, the Northern Ireland Act of 1998 and the Belfast Agreement".
BBC New Website

FrancieBrady

Five Eighth wrote: »

Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) have said they are supporting judicial review proceedings.

Former MEP Ben Habib and Labour MP Kate Hoey are also backing it.

Well that's a formidable team!

Five Eighth

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well that's a formidable team!

I'm sure that voters of Vauxhall are totally behind their former Labour MP. As for Habib..on the right of the Brexit Party. Hilarious.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well that's a formidable team!

I called it a mile away when Downcow was crowing about the cross party support from Britain! Hahahaha

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Why do I suspect your, 'cross party' fronting will include a few familiar names like Kate Hoey?

FrancieBrady

Five Eighth wrote: »

I'm sure that voters of Vauxhall are totally behind their former Labour MP. As for Habib..on the right of the Brexit Party. Hilarious.

What was the Brexit vote in Vauxhall...80 something % to remain. Now we have Kate 'standing' up for somewhere else that voted to remain.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What was the Brexit vote in Vauxhall...80 something % to remain. Now we have Kate 'standing' up for somewhere else that voted to remain.

That's the Kate Hoey who came out and said she would vote for the DUP when she had the Labour whip removed....who voted with the Tory government more often than her own party with regards to Brexit.....who has a Twitter love-in with such intellectual titans as Jamie Bryson... (it gets better)



Who has said the GFA isn't sustainable, and who's suggestion to resolve Brexit issues was for Ireland to jump off the cliff with them?!

Christ, I know I predicted Hoey, but I didn't imagine the, 'cross party support' would be the NI Unionist parties, her and some Brexit Party nutter.

No wonder he wanted to keep quiet on the details.

Five Eighth

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What was the Brexit vote in Vauxhall...80 something % to remain. Now we have Kate 'standing' up for somewhere else that voted to remain.

Vauxhall voted 77.6% to Remain. Katie was on her way out anyway.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

You have quite a binary attitude to life. You also have amazing confidence that the EU will not use common sense and compromise.
If life was that simple then you wouldn’t need any popcorn

If you read the majority of posts by our resident disgruntled republicans they`re more interested in trying to get one over the traditional Unionist parties/Unionists and spouting the same,tired old things about how the people of NI will happily give up the NHS for example and now the unique advantageous position they are in.They also refuse to accept that the majority of people in the Republic don`t want the added cost and potential strife a proposed UI vote might cause.
Reading through the usual suspects posts I sometimes have to check if I`m on the `how long before Irish reunification`thread or the `lets try and get one over the Unionists`thread.
How they think bulling up ira terrorists and constantly whining on about what a rotten bunch the Unionists are will encourage people to want to join together with them is a mystery imo.

downcow

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you read the majority of posts by our resident disgruntled republicans they`re more interested in trying to get one over the traditional Unionist parties/Unionists and spouting the same,tired old things about how the people of NI will happily give up the NHS for example and now the unique advantageous position they are in.They also refuse to accept that the majority of people in the Republic don`t want the added cost and potential strife a proposed UI vote might cause.
Reading through the usual suspects posts I sometimes have to check if I`m on the `how long before Irish reunification`thread or the `lets try and get one over the Unionists`thread.
How they think bulling up ira terrorists and constantly whining on about what a rotten bunch the Unionists are will encourage people to want to join together with them is a mystery imo.

Yes rob. They don’t want to face this.
A wee message I got tonight I thought worth sharing

Sometimes one does see the wood because of the trees...!
Think of the subsidy Westminster provides to NI as an intergal part of the UK..that is in the context of the 'block grant' via Barnett formula.
NI receives £12billion annually. Then factor in the additional £2billion we received with the infamous DUP confidence and supply agreement and this year an extra £3billion we reached due to Covid-19 pandemic and Furlough Scheme.
That means on average over past couple years £15 billion.
Now the south have 2.32m tax payers so in simple terms EACH would have to fork out €7,500 Annually to maintain NI citizens in the lifestyle and services such as our NHS, benefits, to Schooling etc.
There so called new Ireland will never happen..!

The only option is if GB keeps on paying...no government could stay in power under them circumstances because the Great British Public won't have it period.

downcow

And of course this is why they are on a beaten docket
https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/02/20/news/living-standards-20-per-cent-higher-in-northern-ireland-than-republic-2229413/content.html

Kermit.de.frog

lolol

Natterjack from Kerry

downcow wrote: »

And of course this is why they are on a beaten docket
https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/02/20/news/living-standards-20-per-cent-higher-in-northern-ireland-than-republic-2229413/content.html

With any shape of good management, that position can only improve now as the the Brexit deal kicks in to NI's benefit.

Instead of all this carping, people should embrace the fantastic situation that NI is now in. After all the strife, split communities,violence, and death, a long term and quite excellent position has been arrived at, that is the best solution Great Britain, Ireland, Northern Ireland, northern Irish republicans, northern Ireland unionists, and northern Ireland nationalists. It behoves them all to embrace tis now, and get on with building a truly great society together.

JasonStatham

downcow wrote: »

And of course this is why they are on a beaten docket
https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/02/20/news/living-standards-20-per-cent-higher-in-northern-ireland-than-republic-2229413/content.html

Man, that's an interesting take on reality.

downcow

JasonStatham wrote: »

Man, that's an interesting take on reality.

I don’t subscribe to the Irish news so could only read the intro.

FrancieBrady

JasonStatham wrote: »

Man, that's an interesting take on reality.

Research the researcher - Dr Graham Gudgin. The old maxim...'he would say that', springs to mind.

Natterjack from Kerry

JasonStatham wrote: »

Man, that's an interesting take on reality.

Had enough of 'experts' ?
Or do you just consider your own academic economic credentials superior to Dr. Gudgin's ?

JasonStatham

downcow wrote: »

I don’t subscribe to the Irish news so could only read the intro.

I'm not sure if you're interested in having a look at the article below - it's about the living standards in both jurisdictions. I'll stick it here in case anyone wants to have a gander.

https://www.esri.ie/publications/who-is-better-off-measuring-cross-border-differences-in-living-standards-opportunities

downcow

JasonStatham wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're interested in having a look at the article below - it's about the living standards in both jurisdictions. I'll stick it here in case anyone wants to have a gander.

https://www.esri.ie/publications/who-is-better-off-measuring-cross-border-differences-in-living-standards-opportunities

Thanks for that. I realise we may be drawn to seeing the positives in our own situation and the negatives in others. I guess the opposite of ‘far of fields look green’
I read these stats and they make no sense in reality. I work for an all island company and the southerners regularly relate stories of comparison with no and they always express envy. They tell us what medications cost them, visits to their doctor, taxes, price of houses, etc. And more recently they are amazed at the support we have received through furlough , and indeed wish they were receiving vaccines with us.
So I get bombarded by southerners envying our situation and then I read stats that contradict these people’s stories
Help me understand this.

Fionn1952

Aye, but in all seriousness.....Kate Hoey was your ace up your sleeve!??!

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Aye, but in all seriousness.....Kate Hoey was your ace up your sleeve!??!

I suspect like Trimble's case this is all posturing ahead of the HoC debate. Which is all about playing to their base vote, looking like they are doing something.

Boris will yawn his way through it, bull**** them some more, they'll all go home and ...well that's about the height of it. Bar Gove shaking his fist across the channel for effect.

Nqp15hhu

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you read the majority of posts by our resident disgruntled republicans they`re more interested in trying to get one over the traditional Unionist parties/Unionists and spouting the same,tired old things about how the people of NI will happily give up the NHS for example and now the unique advantageous position they are in.They also refuse to accept that the majority of people in the Republic don`t want the added cost and potential strife a proposed UI vote might cause.
Reading through the usual suspects posts I sometimes have to check if I`m on the `how long before Irish reunification`thread or the `lets try and get one over the Unionists`thread.
How they think bulling up ira terrorists and constantly whining on about what a rotten bunch the Unionists are will encourage people to want to join together with them is a mystery imo.

This is an excellent analysis. Reading the posts on this site, there is so much anti British sentiment in play. I occasionally watch or read Irish news channels and even the politicians have this approach of going out of their way to do everything possible to be divergent from GB. There is also this rhetoric that the British are evil as a country and must be dealt with.

Speaking as someone who has lived in GB, most people in England in particular never think about Scotland never mind ROI.

It is truly bizarre this obsession people have down there of treating the U.K. as if we are this evil toxic nation that is ROI’s enemy. Yes the Irish nationalist population did face some adversity but it’s time to remove the victim hats and move on into the future and try to develop stronger links and an improved relationship with the United Kingdom.

This is a disconnect with Northern Ireland where most people have no problem with aligning with or connecting with GB. If there is a United Ireland Southern Irish Nationalists are going to have to swallow their pride and accept some more alignment with GB. Because a United Ireland will never work if Unionists are told to put up and shut up (an attitude and approach I seem to see often on here).

It just highlights how out of touch they all are with the general NI populace and our attitudes.

Nqp15hhu

downcow wrote: »

Yes rob. They don’t want to face this.
A wee message I got tonight I thought worth sharing

Sometimes one does see the wood because of the trees...!
Think of the subsidy Westminster provides to NI as an intergal part of the UK..that is in the context of the 'block grant' via Barnett formula.
NI receives £12billion annually. Then factor in the additional £2billion we received with the infamous DUP confidence and supply agreement and this year an extra £3billion we reached due to Covid-19 pandemic and Furlough Scheme.
That means on average over past couple years £15 billion.
Now the south have 2.32m tax payers so in simple terms EACH would have to fork out €7,500 Annually to maintain NI citizens in the lifestyle and services such as our NHS, benefits, to Schooling etc.
There so called new Ireland will never happen..!

The only option is if GB keeps on paying...no government could stay in power under them circumstances because the Great British Public won't have it period.

As a political unionist I don’t see any true efforts of reconciliation or persuasion. It’s all about one up man ship.

The Irish government also seem to constantly go out of their way to diverge from GB, doing everything possible to be different. They don’t want to work with the U.K. or align with us in any way. Furthermore, as of recent times they have gone out of their way to rattle Unionists with their smug attitude coming on to British television to spread propaganda.

If a United Ireland was going to be successful there would have to be a change to that approach and an adoption of a more friendly relationship with the U.K.

Junkyard Tom

We literally joined the EU to align with GB and then when we're equally integrated into the EU a pack of incompetents take control of Britain and cause a terrible Eton mess, resulting in great economic and reputational harm, and because Ireland doesn't follow them we're deliberately trying to be different.

What an incoherent mess Unionism is -- utterly without direction, cause, or ally, and yet it still sees fit to provoke the very people it needs to maintain its little quasi-colonial dependency.

Keep up the good work.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We literally joined the EU to align with GB and then when we're equally integrated into the EU a pack of incompetents take control of Britain and cause a terrible Eton mess, resulting in great economic and reputational harm, and because Ireland doesn't follow them we're deliberately trying to be different.

What an incoherent mess Unionism is -- utterly without direction, cause, or ally, and yet it still sees fit to provoke the very people it needs to maintain its little quasi-colonial dependency.

Keep up the good work.

We have reached a special place too. Downcow was so ashamed of the motley crew assembled to take the legal challenge he couldn't bring himself to say who they were and what they planned, here.

That's not good.

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

This is an excellent analysis. Reading the posts on this site, there is so much anti British sentiment in play. I occasionally watch or read Irish news channels and even the politicians have this approach of going out of their way to do everything possible to be divergent from GB. There is also this rhetoric that the British are evil as a country and must be dealt with.

Speaking as someone who has lived in GB, most people in England in particular never think about Scotland never mind ROI.

It is truly bizarre this obsession people have down there of treating the U.K. as if we are this evil toxic nation that is ROI’s enemy. Yes the Irish nationalist population did face some adversity but it’s time to remove the victim hats and move on into the future and try to develop stronger links and an improved relationship with the United Kingdom.

This is a disconnect with Northern Ireland where most people have no problem with aligning with or connecting with GB. If there is a United Ireland Southern Irish Nationalists are going to have to swallow their pride and accept some more alignment with GB. Because a United Ireland will never work if Unionists are told to put up and shut up (an attitude and approach I seem to see often on here).

It just highlights how out of touch they all are with the general NI populace and our attitudes.

Relationships between the two islands were excellent up to Brexit. We are angry in the ROI because unionists pursued Brexit with a hope that a hard border would be restored on the island of Ireland.



After the Brexit vote, Enda Kenny tried to set up an All-Ireland forum to try and make Brexit work for the island of Ireland and Arlene refused to take part.


We'd love to be able to align with the UK - but we can't ride both horses. We have to choose and we have chosen the one that makes us most prosperious.

jm08

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

As a political unionist I don’t see any true efforts of reconciliation or persuasion. It’s all about one up man ship.

The Irish government also seem to constantly go out of their way to diverge from GB, doing everything possible to be different. They don’t want to work with the U.K. or align with us in any way. Furthermore, as of recent times they have gone out of their way to rattle Unionists with their smug attitude coming on to British television to spread propaganda.

If a United Ireland was going to be successful there would have to be a change to that approach and an adoption of a more friendly relationship with the U.K.

Just a reminder:

Democratic Unionist leader Arlene Foster has already declined an invite to attend next week’s “civic dialogue” event in Dublin, which has been organised by Taoiseach Enda Kenny to discuss the fall-out from the referendum result.
Explaining her reason for staying away, Mrs Foster, a Brexiteer, portrayed the gathering as little more than a talking shop for those who refuse to accept the UK is leaving the EU.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/foster-rubbishes-kenny-s-brexit-forum-for-remoaners-1.2846022