How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Its insulting that you would compare unfavourable an ancient language to a few lads marching down the road banging a drum.

The irony of that statement. Lol

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

That isn't a PR video - its part of the their Irish course in that particular college. They make hundreds of music videos. The Avicii one is particularly popular. Check out their youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/c/tglurgan/videos


About 25,000 kids spend 3 weeks in the Gaeltach each year at these colleges. Hardly niche.

Its insulting that you would compare unfavourable an ancient language to a few lads marching down the road banging a drum.

I think you are missing my point. 25,000 is less than half of one percent of the island population. It looks great fun but it is niche I reckon.

I would say gaa sport, trad music, etc are part of many people’s identity and involve huge numbers but Irish language is hanging on by its fingernails.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reason they didn't attend his funeral was because the Church was allowed to hijack the affairs of the new state by FF and FG etc.

One of the last signs of that grip on state affairs being broken was the Same Sex Marriage referendum.
You might remember that the former Taoiseach and present leader of FG was vehemently opposed to removing that block at one point in his career.

Seems to me that republicans were front and centre advocating for all the civil reforms that finally separated church and state here. They certainly were not in any 'shadows'.

Codswallop Pearse IRB wrecked CnaG on Hyde and turfed him out!
Hyde was only put in as President of Ireland as the token Prod.
You like to dress up SF as enlightened - yet they continued on 'the struggle' watching innocents die. And we have to listen to glorious recent Republican narratives (minus social distancing) about Storey good republican!
I say good riddance to him.
We also have glorious orations about 1798 but little is mentioned about The Scullabogue Massacre 1798 where 200 men women and children were burnt in a barn by the United Irishmen.

https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/the-scullabogue-massacre-1798/

All Irish history should be thought at schools warts and all not just a lazy Republican narrative. This is also part of the problem.

Did you ever learn that at school, honestly?

Yet Bloody Sunday 1920 is etched into the Republican narrative and repeated ad nauseam. You have to ask yourself why is this?

Civil is an interesting word with many meanings. All I think of is how un-civil it was how Liam Adams was hidden from authorities by SF similar to the Catholic church in the pedophile scandals.

To have a successful UI the politicalistion of the Irish culture has to be countered by the middle ground. Irish culture has to be taken back from Republicanism who soiled it. Irish culture has to be shown to be for everyone not just when it suits a narrative of political symbolism.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Codswallop Pearse IRB wrecked CnaG on Hyde and turfed him out!
Hyde was only put in as President of Ireland as the token Prod.
You like to dress up SF as enlightened - yet they continued on 'the struggle' watching innocents die. And we have to listen to glorious recent Republican narratives (minus social distancing) about Martin Storey good republican!
I say good riddance to him.
We also have glorious orations about 1798 but little is mentioned about The Scullabogue Massacre 1798 where 200 men women and children were burnt in a barn by the United Irishmen.

https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/the-scullabogue-massacre-1798/

All Irish history should be thought at schools warts and all not just a lazy Republican narrative. This is also part of the problem.

Did you ever learn that at school, honestly?

Yet Bloody Sunday 1920 is etched into the Republican narrative and repeated ad nauseam. You have to ask yourself why is this?

Civil is an interesting word with many meanings. All I think of is how un-civil it was how Liam Adams was hidden from authorities by SF similar to the Catholic church in the pedophile scandals.

To have a successful UI the politicalistion of the Irish culture has to be countered by the middle ground. Irish culture has to be taken back from Republicanism who soiled it. Irish culture has to be shown to be for everyone not just when it suits a narrative of political symbolism.

And deflect.

No mention about the control the church took and were allowed to take by the men and women of FF FG etc.. Control which forbade the attendance at Hyde's funeral.

But republicans something something something.

Who was front and centre of every change to church inspired dogmatic laws if not republicans including the SF party?

BTW, we are hardly unique in not concentrating on the unsavory parts of our history, but I think the centenary commemorations were a fairly spectacular effort at being inclusive of all parts of our history.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So if we can sort out the price of going to the doc's, a UI will happen? :D:D
Good man Colum...that's great altogether...who knew it was that simple.

Factitious, bad attempts of humour do not gloss over the key points the SDLP leader has made.

I know its an inconvenient truth to many Irish Republicans who see Unity as a way to right some wrongs and turn from historical victims to tomorrow oppressors.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a very good reason for SF's education policy ...

So go on, why are schools still segregated?
SF have been in government for over 15 years now and they have done nothing to try and remedy this.

As long as SF and the DUP work hand in hand to balkanise the North, there will never be Unity.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

So go on, why are schools still segregated?
SF have been in government for over 15 years now and they have done nothing to try and remedy this.

As long as SF and the DUP work hand in hand to balkanise the North, there will never be Unity.

Go to the horse's mouth... www.sinnfein.ie

Same as everyone else lacking in info does

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

BTW, we are hardly unique in not concentrating on the unsavory parts of our history, but I think the centenary commemorations were a fairly spectacular effort at being inclusive of all parts of our history.

Unless you had family in the RIC. Then you can go and **** right off......apparently.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Factitious, bad attempts of humour do not gloss over the key points the SDLP leader has made.

I know its an inconvenient truth to many Irish Republicans who see Unity as a way to right some wrongs and turn from historical victims to tomorrow oppressors.

Big claims...'tomorrow's oppressors'?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Unless you had family in the RIC. Then you can go and **** right off......apparently.

No, nobody had any objection to them being remembered. They have a ceremony every year...I think the former MoJ attended as well. They were included in the commemorations too.
When the Taoiseach and MoJ wanted to celebrate them in a State commeration a full and frank discussion took place. You might not have liked that discussion, it still took place and we saw one of the quickest ever climbdowns in the history of the state.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I think you are missing my point. 25,000 is less than half of one percent of the island population. It looks great fun but it is niche I reckon.

I would say gaa sport, trad music, etc are part of many people’s identity and involve huge numbers but Irish language is hanging on by its fingernails.

Thats 25K every year who have spent 3 weeks in the Gaeltacht. Its not the same 25K every year.



As for it hanging on by its fingernails - is it your hope that it is destroyed completely?

jm08

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Codswallop Pearse IRB wrecked CnaG on Hyde and turfed him out!
Hyde was only put in as President of Ireland as the token Prod.
You like to dress up SF as enlightened - yet they continued on 'the struggle' watching innocents die. And we have to listen to glorious recent Republican narratives (minus social distancing) about Storey good republican!
I say good riddance to him.
We also have glorious orations about 1798 but little is mentioned about The Scullabogue Massacre 1798 where 200 men women and children were burnt in a barn by the United Irishmen.

https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/the-scullabogue-massacre-1798/

All Irish history should be thought at schools warts and all not just a lazy Republican narrative. This is also part of the problem.

Did you ever learn that at school, honestly?

Yet Bloody Sunday 1920 is etched into the Republican narrative and repeated ad nauseam. You have to ask yourself why is this?

Civil is an interesting word with many meanings. All I think of is how un-civil it was how Liam Adams was hidden from authorities by SF similar to the Catholic church in the pedophile scandals.

To have a successful UI the politicalistion of the Irish culture has to be countered by the middle ground. Irish culture has to be taken back from Republicanism who soiled it. Irish culture has to be shown to be for everyone not just when it suits a narrative of political symbolism.

So how do you know about the Scullabogue Massacre? I suppose the slaughter of 3,000 rebels at the same time in New Ross might have overshadowed it a bit, bearing in mind it was in retaliation for a similar massacre that had been committed by the militia in New Ross.


Its hardly surprising that Bloody Sunday in Croke Park is mentioned bearing in mind it is in living memory and there were a lot of people there to see it happening to give eye witness accounts to their sons and daughters and grandchildren.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

Unless you had family in the RIC. Then you can go and **** right off......apparently.

Seriously, you expect Irish people to commemorate the Black & Tans and the Auxiliaries? They were brutes and sent here by Churchill because they were ruthless scum.

BloodyBill

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, nobody had any objection to them being remembered. They have a ceremony every year...I think the former MoJ attended as well. They were included in the commemorations too.
When the Taoiseach and MoJ wanted to celebrate them in a State commeration a full and frank discussion took place. You might not have liked that discussion, it still took place and we saw one of the quickest ever climbdowns in the history of the state.

It was a disgraceful climbdown. The wailing and flailing was absurd. The RIC deserved to be commemorated. There was no discussion, the bullies came out and the government climbed down. It was a shame. There were RIC families coming from all over the world to commemorate one of the finest Police forces of their time. The Canadian Mounties, South African Police ect were all based on the RIC model

FrancieBrady

BloodyBill wrote: »

It was a disgraceful climbdown. The wailing and flailing was absurd. The RIC deserved to be commemorated. There was no discussion, the bullies came out and the government climbed down. It was a shame. There were RIC families coming from all over the world to commemorate one of the finest Police forces of their time. The Canadian Mounties, South African Police ect were all based on the RIC model

Nobody blocked them commemorating. They have a service every year that nobody has objected to.
The absolute outrage that they were to be given a formal state commemoration was 'bullying'?

jm08

BloodyBill wrote: »

It was a disgraceful climbdown. The wailing and flailing was absurd. The RIC deserved to be commemorated. There was no discussion, the bullies came out and the government climbed down. It was a shame. There were RIC families coming from all over the world to commemorate one of the finest Police forces of their time. The Canadian Mounties, South African Police ect were all based on the RIC model

And their offshoot, the RUC had to be disbanded. Very honorable indeed!

gormdubhgorm

jm08 wrote: »

So how do you know about the Scullabogue Massacre? I suppose the slaughter of 3,000 rebels at the same time in New Ross might have overshadowed it a bit, bearing in mind it was in retaliation for a similar massacre that had been committed by the militia in New Ross.


Its hardly surprising that Bloody Sunday in Croke Park is mentioned bearing in mind it is in living memory and there were a lot of people there to see it happening to give eye witness accounts to their sons and daughters and grandchildren.

Rubbish women and children burned alive in a barn -200!
How do excuse that?
If it fitted the Republican agenda ballads would have been sung about it.
it is agenda led simple as that, the mock outrage about the commemoration of the RIC proved this.

No mention of Eamonn Ceannt's father RIC officer James Kent for instance.
Or the Irish RIC men killed in Solhedbeg. One a widower gaeilgoir who was killed in the ambush - outnumbered - 8 to 2. He left behind five orphan kids

How do I know about the Scullabogue massacre? The same reason how I know about Harold Washington who was killed by Kevin Barry who was older than him. Less than 18 summers about 15/16. I have a interest in history not just a narrow viewpoint of it as decreed by a Republican narrative.

Plus that 'living memory' guff is a cop out you know it and I know it.
If Ireland only remembers its agenda led history to suit a republican narrative no hope of a UI.

gormdubhgorm

markodaly wrote: »

Unless you had family in the RIC. Then you can go and **** right off......apparently.

All you have to is go back to the RIC commemoration thread and read the contortions Francie Brady came up with. Best he could come up with was a local celebration out of sight out of mind. Yet on the other hand he thinks Ireland is ready for an inclusive NI

Truthvader

Interestingly this thread is about a United Ireland. When you read the carefully nurtured bitterness of the likes of Francie you know that it is as far away as ever. No doubt there are similar intransigent idealogues on the other side of the peace wall longing for the lost days of the glorious 12th and all that bollpcks. They deserve nothing more than each other

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And deflect.

No mention about the control the church took and were allowed to take by the men and women of FF FG etc.. Control which forbade the attendance at Hyde's funeral.

But republicans something something something.

Who was front and centre of every change to church inspired dogmatic laws if not republicans including the SF party?

BTW, we are hardly unique in not concentrating on the unsavory parts of our history, but I think the centenary commemorations were a fairly spectacular effort at being inclusive of all parts of our history.

If anyone is deflecting it is you. You are a fella whose sense of Irishness seems to be based on how much you don't like the Brits. Basically your Daddy's influence. Your language is lost and culture. Only thing you have left is to be anti partition. And anti-Brit. That seems to be the summation of your Republicanism and 'Irishness'.
So much so you were unable to your Irishness when asked. You deflected and said you are Irish in your own wee way! Yet you supported Notts Forrest!

Yet you have the neck to link SF with inclusiveness and enlightenment.
The Provos are the same crowd who stopped thier women killing soliders by using honey traps because it was not morally pure. The women were sent back to deliver messages instead!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_Honey_Trap_killings

Anti-partition is your last pretense at showing how Irish you are. Let's be honest. But I suppose at least you live near a border area and were brainwashed by your background. It sounds even more silly when the same Republican guff comes from a working class Dub for eample, no Irish. limited knowledge of history but feels lrish because he supports Celtic. Real joke those are.

For UI to work it needs compromise. How can there be compromise from Republican thicks with a limited knowledge of Irish history and hatred of all things Brit and Unionist. Except the EPL and Celtic!

gormdubhgorm

BloodyBill wrote: »

It was a disgraceful climbdown. The wailing and flailing was absurd. The RIC deserved to be commemorated. There was no discussion, the bullies came out and the government climbed down. It was a shame. There were RIC families coming from all over the world to commemorate one of the finest Police forces of their time. The Canadian Mounties, South African Police ect were all based on the RIC model

It actually set a UI back decades and decades. But those whipping up the hysteria/ or too caught up in it to realise and have bit of forward thinking. Also there was Hitler / Nazi arguments thrown in by some Republican historians which made no sense, in an Irish context.

jm08

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rubbish women and children burned alive in a barn -200!
How do excuse that?

It wasn't excused because they were all hung for it.

If it fitted the Republican agenda ballads would have been sung about it. It is agenda led simple as that, the mock outrage about the commemoration of the RIC proved this.

So, Republicans didn't write ballads about it. I'm not sure whether you think this is a good thing or a bad thing! Would you prefer if there were ballads about it?

No mention of Eamonn Ceannt's father RIC officer James Kent for instance. Or the Irish RIC men killed in Solhedbeg. One a widower gaeilgoir who was killed in the ambush - outnumbered - 8 to 2. He left behind five orphan kids.

I'm just as good a story about your beloved Tans who played russian roulette with my father's head who was only a child, watched by his widowed mother and his sister when they were searching for IRA guns in their rural farmhouse. They shot the dog instead. My aunt, who was about 13 at the time. The women were lucky they were not raped I suppose. There are hundred of stories like this of women and children being raped and beaten by the Tans. Forgive me if I excuse myself from glorfying anything got to do with them when in Ireland.

How do I know about the Scullabogue massacre? The same reason how I know about Harold Washington who was killed by Kevin Barry who was older than him. Less than 18 summers about 15/16. I have a interest in history not just a narrow viewpoint of it as decreed by a Republican narrative.

So, no one is denying all these things happened? Is your issue that we don't talk about them enough.

Plus that 'living memory' guff is a cop out you know it and I know it. If Ireland only remembers its agenda led history to suit a republican narrative no hope of a UI.

Yea, sure it is.


By the way, do you know anything about the Wexford Massacre that took place a few weeks later? 90-100 people massacred!


List of Irish massacres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ireland

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

All you have to is go back to the RIC commemoration thread and read the contortions Francie Brady came up with. Best he could come up with was a local celebration out of sight out of mind. Yet on the other hand he thinks Ireland is ready for an inclusive NI

And the lies begin.

Where you one of those who ran away from the thread when I asked if you would be happy for the State to celebrate/commemorate the IRA in a new inclusive UI?

We know why the usual crew run away from that.

BTW I don't think the State should give a commemoration to the IRA due to the sensitivities involved.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If anyone is deflecting it is you. You are a fella whose sense of Irishness seems to be based on how much you don't like the Brits. Basically your Daddy's influence. Your language is lost and culture. Only thing you have left is to be anti partition. And anti-Brit. That seems to be the summation of your Republicanism and 'Irishness'.
So much so you were unable to your Irishness when asked. You deflected and said you are Irish in your own wee way! Yet you supported Notts Forrest!

Yet you have the neck to link SF with inclusiveness and enlightenment.
The Provos are the same crowd who stopped thier women killing soliders by using honey traps because it was not morally pure. The women were sent back to deliver messages instead!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_Honey_Trap_killings

Anti-partition is your last pretense at showing how Irish you are. Let's be honest. But I suppose at least you live near a border area and were brainwashed by your background. It sounds even more silly when the same Republican guff comes from a working class Dub for eample, no Irish. limited knowledge of history but feels lrish because he supports Celtic. Real joke those are.

For UI to work it needs compromise. How can there be compromise from Republican thicks with a limited knowledge of Irish history and hatred of all things Brit and Unionist. Except the EPL and Celtic!

My da was an SDLP supporter.

After that assumption I stopped reading your latest diatribe. Life's too short tbh.

Junkyard Tom

BloodyBill wrote: »

RIC ... one of the finest Police forces of their time.

A bunch of killer mercenaries unanswerable to the local population. Those who stayed in the RIC after the outbreak of the War of Independence must have been a right bunch of bastards. Irish people who stayed in the RIC were worse than the Black and Tans, they must have hated their own countrymen.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go to the horse's mouth... www.sinnfein.ie

Same as everyone else lacking in info does

Francie I have a quick look at that website and it made me feel quite ill. To see Colm Murphy standing smiling, when I think of all the homes which are crying tonight because of his actions. The murder, torture, and protection of paedophiles and rapists is nothing short of sickening. When do you think Sinn Fein will clear out this old guard that managed the rape of both adults and children, not to mention the sectarian slaughter, and some of them British agents to boot (although I do not think Murphy was a British agent)

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the lies begin.

Where you one of those who ran away from the thread when I asked if you would be happy for the State to celebrate/commemorate the IRA in a new inclusive UI?

We know why the usual crew run away from that.

BTW I don't think the State should give a commemoration to the IRA due to the sensitivities involved.

That's a joke Francie. Sensitivities! They raped children. Hardly something I would refer to as sensitivities

Junkyard Tom

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It actually set a UI back decades and decades.

GDG posting from the future again?

gormdubhgorm

[QUOTE=jm0t wasn't excused because they were all hung for it. [/quotes]

You already excused it. You went on about. Rebels being killed. Which is what you would expect as if it excuses the killing of women and children,

So, Republicans didn't write ballads about it. I'm not sure whether you think this is a good thing or a bad thing! Would you prefer if there were ballads about it?

You know exactly the point I was making now you are just being obtuse to deflect. I doubt you ever heard of the Sullabouge Massacre until I mentioned it!

I'm just as good a story about your beloved Tans who played russian roulette with my father's head who was only a child, watched by his widowed mother and his sister when they were searching for IRA guns in their rural farmhouse. They shot the dog instead. My aunt, who was about 13 at the time. The women were lucky they were not raped I suppose. There are hundred of stories like this of women and children being raped and beaten by the Tans. Forgive me if I excuse myself from glorfying anything got to do with them when in Ireland.

You must be fairly old so and have been holding the bitterness against any British person for years. Because they shot your dog and didn't rape the women? You seem to wish it was worse than what happened as it would justify your bitterness.
Also "your beloved Tans" comment is also telling you equate all RIC with the Black and Tans.

So, no one is denying all these things happened? Is your issue that we don't talk about them enough.

My issue is one narrative is told. You are prove of this brainwashed by a family narrative who only told you of wrongs done against them. One sided story.

By the way, do you know anything about the Wexford Massacre that took place a few weeks later? 90-100 people massacred!


List of Irish massacres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ireland

No doubt this was done in retaliation for the previous massacre by the United Irishmen so in a way they were the cause of it.

You are proof that Ireland is not ready for a UI as the narrative of history is only remembered one way. And your prejudice oozes out.
Can't have real reconciliation and a shared common ground when there is prejudice. A UI has no hope otherwise

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie I have a quick look at that website and it made me feel quite ill. To see Colm Murphy standing smiling, when I think of all the homes which are crying tonight because of his actions. The murder, torture, and protection of paedophiles and rapists is nothing short of sickening. When do you think Sinn Fein will clear out this old guard that managed the rape of both adults and children, not to mention the sectarian slaughter, and some of them British agents to boot (although I do not think Murphy was a British agent)

Join the party downcow...other than that you or I have no say.
You have a problem with individuals in a party...don't vote for them.
If you have incriminating evidence bring it to the police.

If I think of any other advice I will let you know.