How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Fionn
I very much appreciate the second half of your post and that you are big enough to acknowledge and affirm the marching band scene.

I am disappointed with your approach in the first half of your post.
I could start the nonsense of asking you to identify exactly where I said bands receive no finding. But you or Bonnie wouldn’t do such a thing do why should I!

You know I didn’t say it.
My point is/was that the band scene does not need funding to flourish because it is valued and loved by the community.
Of course in recent years it has got some scraps of funding. Tiny in relative terms to what Irish language gets. Yet seems to flourish while we here nothing but excuses why so few young people speak Irish
Take all funding from both in the morning and we all know which one will continue to flourish.
It’s just interesting

But thanks again for the second part of your post

Very rich for you to yet again bring me into one of your strawman arguments and yet three weeks after you did this previously you still haven't answered any questions put to you about it.

BonnieSituation

markodaly wrote: »

At least he is on the ball and not drinking the blind rabid Irish Republican cool-aid on this.



If you cannot convince middle-Ulster on these questions, then a UI will not be happening. No amount of rebel songs or misty-eyed stories about Ireland will compensate for it.

You and your ilk are the only ones making out that we would want the status quo of how the future United Irish State is made up and administered to be as it is today.

Replicating the southern health service nationwide won't fly, likewise, spreading some of the inefficiencies of the HSC Trusts around the place will also be daft.

You realise that reunification will be a multi-year project involving certain aspects of the current Republic and North being changed. It's an opportunity to make things better for all.

Boiling everything down to the cost of a GP visit does a disservice to the whole idea.

The sooner you and your ilk realise that and stop your sniping the better.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I am absolutely not going off on another series of posts Bonnie-style of dancing on the head of a pin. The vast majority of young Unionists who learned band music do so without a penny of funding. To the best of my knowledge, every single young Nationalists is funded to learn Irish.
Dance away on the pin if you wish - the facts are very clear

I have a style?

Thanks.

---

That you accuse someone of dancing on the head of a pin is the most ironic post on this thread littered with ironic posts.

BonnieSituation

jm08 wrote: »

That isn't a PR video - its part of the their Irish course in that particular college. They make hundreds of music videos. The Avicii one is particularly popular. Check out their youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/c/tglurgan/videos


About 25,000 kids spend 3 weeks in the Gaeltach each year at these colleges. Hardly niche. For many kids (especially those from the city) it is a rite of passage going to the Gaeltach where they are immersed in Irish culture. No doubt, its been a difficult year for the colleges (and the people who accommodate these kids), but they will be back as soon as this Covid thing is sorted. How can kids walk away from the Irish language. It is still part of the school curriculum.






Maybe there should be concern about kids walking away from the bands. Are the kids practising on their own at home?






Its not a PR video.






Its insulting that you would compare unfavourable an ancient language to a few lads marching down the road banging a drum.

downcow wrote: »

The irony of that statement. Lol

---

Care to explain the irony.

I seemed to have missed it.

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If anyone is deflecting it is you. You are a fella whose sense of Irishness seems to be based on how much you don't like the Brits. Basically your Daddy's influence. Your language is lost and culture. Only thing you have left is to be anti partition. And anti-Brit. That seems to be the summation of your Republicanism and 'Irishness'.
So much so you were unable to your Irishness when asked. You deflected and said you are Irish in your own wee way! Yet you supported Notts Forrest!

Yet you have the neck to link SF with inclusiveness and enlightenment.
The Provos are the same crowd who stopped thier women killing soliders by using honey traps because it was not morally pure. The women were sent back to deliver messages instead!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_Honey_Trap_killings

Anti-partition is your last pretense at showing how Irish you are. Let's be honest. But I suppose at least you live near a border area and were brainwashed by your background. It sounds even more silly when the same Republican guff comes from a working class Dub for eample, no Irish. limited knowledge of history but feels lrish because he supports Celtic. Real joke those are.

For UI to work it needs compromise. How can there be compromise from Republican thicks with a limited knowledge of Irish history and hatred of all things Brit and Unionist. Except the EPL and Celtic!

Why did you come back to repeat the same crap months after you left us?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

---

Care to explain the irony.

I seemed to have missed it.

This statement of yours seems a tad ironic don’t you think
“Its insulting that you would compare unfavourable an ancient language to a few lads marching down the road banging a drum.”

Maybe you can’t see it

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

This statement of yours seems a tad ironic don’t you think
“Its insulting that you would compare unfavourable an ancient language to a few lads marching down the road banging a drum.”

Maybe you can’t see it

I didn't say repeat it. I said explain the irony. I also said I missed it.

Do you have comprehension issues?

Would you please explain the irony that I seem to have missed.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

This statement of yours seems a tad ironic don’t you think
“Its insulting that you would compare unfavourable an ancient language to a few lads marching down the road banging a drum.”

Maybe you can’t see it

I just thinks it’s a bit ironic that you are asking for you language to be respected yet you refer to a culture that regularly produces world champions in flute, bagpipes, accordion, drumming and drum majors as “a few lads marching down the road banging a drum” 😀

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I just thinks it’s a bit ironic that you are asking for you language to be respected yet you refer to a culture that regularly produces world champions in flute, bagpipes, accordion, drumming and drum majors as “a few lads marching down the road banging a drum” ��

I don't think that's irony.

You [sic] language?

Well DOWNcow, it's all of our language. Not our fault you can't take your odd bigotry glasses off when it comes to the culture of Ireland.

No loss though.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I just thinks it’s a bit ironic that you are asking for you language to be respected yet you refer to a culture that regularly produces world champions in flute, bagpipes, accordion, drumming and drum majors as “a few lads marching down the road banging a drum” ��

In comparision to a language that the history of Ireland from medieval times is written in? Yes. Are you not proud of The Annals of Ulster? The language it was written in deserves far more respect than any flute playing, accordian playing, drumming that dates back a few hundred years and basically commemorates militarism.

O'Neill

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The quasi-militaristic nature of the RIC exposes perfectly the colonial relationship between Ireland and London. Unlike arrangements in Britain the RIC were often armed, billeted in Barracks, and its officer class was over-representative of the Anglo-Irish.

One good outcome from this Brexit business is that a whole new generation of Irish people are getting a crash course in understanding the utter indifference, often contempt, the English ruling class has for Ireland.

West Britism in Ireland is dead.

Absolutely, but hopefully the same can be said of England. There's plenty of English people who are as disgusted as anyone else what's going on and that needs to be reminded imo. I was repulsed by Johnson describing his Government 'wrapping his arms around the people of UK'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe_OTpEVpXI&t=555s

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, nobody had any objection to them being remembered. They have a ceremony every year...I think the former MoJ attended as well. They were included in the commemorations too.
When the Taoiseach and MoJ wanted to celebrate them in a State commeration a full and frank discussion took place. You might not have liked that discussion, it still took place and we saw one of the quickest ever climbdowns in the history of the state.

Oh, so if one wanted to remember the RIC and the shared history you bang on about so much in the privacy of their own house, then fine.
But as soon as the state tries to do something then its not correct?

Again, there seems to be a rule for one and a rule for others.
Will you object to the state commemorating traitors who shot and killed Gardai and Irish Army personal?
Or is that OK, because you agreed with them?

markodaly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

All you have to is go back to the RIC commemoration thread and read the contortions Francie Brady came up with. Best he could come up with was a local celebration out of sight out of mind. Yet on the other hand he thinks Ireland is ready for an inclusive NI

This to me was a great indication that Ireland as a whole is just not ready for a UI.
If we lose our minds at the prospect of commemoration for the RIC and its founding, then how in gods name can we unify with the Unionists of the North who have a very very different outlook to history and identity?

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A bunch of killer mercenaries unanswerable to the local population. Those who stayed in the RIC after the outbreak of the War of Independence must have been a right bunch of bastards. Irish people who stayed in the RIC were worse than the Black and Tans, they must have hated their own countrymen.

A very Stalinist approach to history I must say. The tyranny of ideology at display at its finest.
Tell me, what do you make of the Anti-treaty forces who killed Gardai and took up arms against the state?

Did they too hate their fellow countrymen?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...but if I make claims I back them up...always.

France. In fairness, this is nonsense. You make some outlandish claims and rarely back them up.


Are you saying over 35k posts are backed up by some evidence?
Nonesense.

Junkyard Tom

markodaly wrote: »

A very Stalinist approach to history I must say. The tyranny of ideology at display at its finest.

Your use of invective is senseless. Stalinist would better describe the actions of the British state. My sympathies lie with the insurgents, the rebels, those trying to end the British state's rule in Ireland.

Tell me, what do you make of the Anti-treaty forces who killed Gardai and took up arms against the state?

I don't have any strong opinions on it. I don't know where my sympathies would have lied after the civil war, both wanted the same thing just in a different way.

Did they too hate their fellow countrymen?

I'm sure some of them did.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Oh, so if one wanted to remember the RIC and the shared history you bang on about so much in the privacy of their own house, then fine.
But as soon as the state tries to do something then its not correct?

Again, there seems to be a rule for one and a rule for others.
Will you object to the state commemorating traitors who shot and killed Gardai and Irish Army personal?
Or is that OK, because you agreed with them?

The RIC have a public commemoration every year. Are you unaware of that?
Nobody has ever objected to them having that nor the MoJ or others attending it.

I have said before here that ALL should be allowed to commemorate their dead with respect.

BTW, you are WRONG AGAIN I never supported violence of any kind. I think it was ALL wrong from the get go and those who created the circumstances for it.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

France. In fairness, this is nonsense. You make some outlandish claims and rarely back them up.


Are you saying over 35k posts are backed up by some evidence?
Nonesense.

Here's how it works Mark...if I don't back up a claim then you need to challenge me on it.
I don't ignore significant facts of history (like an overt threat of war from another country or a suprematist political and religious ideology changing the voting system etc etc) to arrive at a biased narrative.

BonnieSituation

markodaly wrote: »

This to me was a great indication that Ireland as a whole is just not ready for a UI.

Your only job is to vote against it. If you wish to campaign against a UI, then fill your boots.

If we lose our minds at the prospect of commemoration for the RIC and its founding, then how in gods name can we unify with the Unionists of the North who have a very very different outlook to history and identity?

Oh my Mark.

Is that all it was?

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I don't have any strong opinions on it.

A copout but to be expected.


Traitors who target and kill Gardai and Irish Defence Force personnel?
"Meh, don't really have an opinion on it"

But RIC Men?
"All post 1918 RIC men though hate their country-men"

markodaly

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You and your ilk are the only ones making out that we would want the status quo of how the future United Irish State is made up and administered to be as it is today.

You must have me terribly confused with someone else so, because I never stated this, but by all means quote me on it.

In fact I have been blue in the face telling people that
a) we will need a new consitituion
b) we will need have most if not all of this ironed out before we vote on a UI, to avoid the cluster **** that is Brexit from repeating.

A UI will be different to one we are living in today, very different. In fact it is the dye in the wool keyboard republicans who are banging on about a 50%+1 vote and the job will be done..!!

Replicating the southern health service nationwide won't fly, likewise, spreading some of the inefficiencies of the HSC Trusts around the place will also be daft.

Laudable, but how many people are we going to sack in the process?
How is this going to be paid for?

Do you think that circa 25,000 Irish HSE admin staff will vote for their own redundancy if a UI is on the cards?

You realise that reunification will be a multi-year project involving certain aspects of the current Republic and North being changed. It's an opportunity to make things better for all.

Again, laudable but very very very difficult. We are not exactly world beaters are running a state or decent, efficient public services.

Boiling everything down to the cost of a GP visit does a disservice to the whole idea.

It was merely a simple example of real world problem of a UI border poll.
If one is going to take place people will want certainty that they are not going to be losing out, or that their taxes or public services are going to be impacted in anyway.
Sure, we can promise the earth moon and stars, but then who and how are we going to pay for it? Do you know how much more a NHS style health service will cost the average tax payer in the south?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20365540.html

The answer is €2,000 euro for each taxpayer.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The RIC have a public commemoration every year. Are you unaware of that?
Nobody has ever objected to them having that nor the MoJ or others attending it.

You are deliberately mischaracterizing what happened.
As soon as the state was involved in the RIC commemeration, people like you lost their minds.
Hell, you don't want people to wear a Poppy and that they should be force to remove them if asked, comparing it to a Swastika.

BTW, you are WRONG AGAIN I never supported violence of any kind. I think it was ALL wrong from the get go and those who created the circumstances for it.

Odd, as the other day you said the IRA of 1921 should have done 'whatever it took' to secure a UI and NOT signed the Anglo-Irish treaty.....
Is this now a pacifist position? ROFL.

"Im non-violent but we should wage war on the British/Unionists for the 6 counties"
Does.Not.Computre Francie

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here's how it works Mark...if I don't back up a claim then you need to challenge me on it.

Oh, so you don't back up a claim.
Another fast u-turn.

Can you back up your last claim where you supported the MOJ going to a RIC commemoration?

I don't ignore significant facts of history (like an overt threat of war from another country or a suprematist political and religious ideology changing the voting system etc etc) to arrive at a biased narrative.

Facts of history, like Partition happened and that SF/PIRA gave up most of their arms, surrendered and agreed to Westminister and British rule in NI for the foreseeable future? That little factoid?

Parition was inevitable.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

You are deliberately mischaracterizing what happened.
As soon as the state was involved in the RIC commemeration, people like you lost their minds.
Hell, you don't want people to wear a Poppy and that they should be force to remove them if asked, comparing it to a Swastika.

I dont think anybody, unionist nationaliat catholic protestant or partionist should be allowed to intentionally offend Mark...you do obviously.

Odd, as the other day you said the IRA of 1921 should have done 'whatever it took' to secure a UI and NOT signed the Anglo-Irish treaty.....
Is this now a pacifist position? ROFL.

"Im non-violent but we should wage war on the British/Unionists for the 6 counties"
Does.Not.Computre Francie

Wrong again. Not agreeing to kick an inevitable down the road and actually making division harder to cure may have led to war or it might not have.
I am against the use of violence that doesn't make me a hat doffer or a subservient yes man just because it is the easy way out.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Oh, so you don't back up a claim.
Another fast u-turn.

Can you back up your last claim where you supported the MOJ going to a RIC commemoration?

where did I claim to have supported him?
I didn't object to the annual RIC commemoration, is what I said.. backed up by the abscence of objection.

I do object to them being given a state commemoration though as I would to the IRA or UVF getting one.

Facts of history, like Partition happened and that SF/PIRA gave up most of their arms, surrendered and agreed to Westminister and British rule in NI for the foreseeable future? That little factoid?

Parition was inevitable.

And that is a good example of the aforementioned partitionist taunting. Same kind of thing your allies - belligerent unionists engage in.

Junkyard Tom

markodaly wrote: »

A copout but to be expected.

How very civil war of you 'pick a side, or else'.

Traitors who target and kill Gardai and Irish Defence Force personnel?
"Meh, don't really have an opinion on it"

The forces of the state did a fair bit of murdering themselves. My opinion on killing is clear, it is a bad thing that shouldn't happen.

But RIC Men?
"All post 1918 RIC men though hate their country-men"

Oh absolutely not as was made clear by the many RIC men who quit or became informers for the IRA. The ones who stuck it out must have hated their fellow countrymen, why else would they stay there?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I dont think anybody, unionist nationaliat catholic protestant or partionist should be allowed to intentionally offend Mark...you do obviously.

Show me a law where it says that?
There is no right to not be offended.
However, your words are kinda chilling.

Wrong again. Not agreeing to kick an inevitable down the road and actually making division harder to cure may have led to war or it might not have.

Oh good, another Walter Mitty view of history.
Tell me, how do you think Ireland could have avoided the resumption of war in 1921 if it didn't agree to the Anglo-Irish Treaty? Genuinely tell us!

On the same token you think partion was easily avoided, now you are telling us we could have had a UI with no war with the Brits or Unionists.
Hilarious stuff. Even your allies on this thread are not even siding with you on this one.

Again, you said, 'Whatever it took'. That obviously means violence and war, so to say you are anti war when you specially advocated war in 1921 rings hollow now.

I am against the use of violence that doesn't make me a hat doffer or a subservient yes man just because it is the easy way out.

So, you disagree with the Provo campaign of violence now?
A man of peace but blowing up a 3 year old toddler is fair game!
I don't think you are fooling anyone with those words.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

where did I claim to have supported him?
I didn't object to the annual RIC commemoration, is what I said.. backed up by the abscence of objection.

Show us where you did not object to the Minister of Justice going to these commemorations.
After all, you ALWAYS back up your posts, now don't you.

And that is a good example of the aforementioned partitionist taunting. Same kind of thing your allies - belligerent unionists engage in.

Facts are taunts now?
Oh Dear!

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Show us where you did not object to the Minister of Justice going to these commemorations.
After all, you ALWAYS back up your posts, now don't you.

Show you were I didn't do something?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Facts are taunts now?
Oh Dear!

Misrepresented facts for the purpose of taunting.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Show you were I didn't do something?

Then its obvious.
You don't if ever back up what you say.

Misrepresented facts for the purpose of taunting.

You mean NI is not ruled by Westminister anymore?
:D