George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

~Rebel~ · 02-06-2020 8:02pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Blacks people make up 13% of the Untied States population they are behind 52% of the murders they commit murders at eleven times the rate of the white population.

What that cop did was murder no doubt about it but the biggest danger to young black men in the Untied States is other young black men.

Looting burning and attacking innocent people makes it very difficult to sympathise with their cause.

Black Lives Matter don't seem to give a hoot about all the gangland shootings of young black men by other young black men.

Not to mention all the white people murdered and attacked by black people.

To turn this around, why do you think that is? I mean, assuming you agree that black people are not fundamentally different from anyone else from birth, why is it that they're entirely disproportionately represented like this? If you put on your empathy hat for a moment, what is it that would drive you to be similar? What sort of systemic injustice and oppression would it take to have created a version of CinemaGuy45 who felt like he had such limited options that criminality became something he would go for?

MadYaker · 02-06-2020 8:02pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

There reason that bit in bold matters is it seems to be white people who get the blame for slavery white privilege and so on.

Anyway 1865 and even the 60s most of us were not even born for goodness sake.
Many cops in the United States are trigger happy morons and the amount of gang related crimes is the reason for a large police presence in black areas.

Why is the idea of black people tacking and taking some responsibility for gang crime seen as so radical?

So what if we weren't born? Ive no idea what you're trying to say here and I don't think you do either.

suicide_circus · 02-06-2020 8:03pm

will America ever overcome its race issues? The current course of action is things like affirmative action, diversity quotas and a weird form of white guilt. These dont seem to be working.

Outlaw Pete · 02-06-2020 8:03pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Looting, burning and attacking innocent people makes it very difficult to sympathise with their cause.

Add murder to that list.

https://twitter.com/JohnMuhammadJr/status/1267890030069944320

Black Lives Matter don't seem to give a hoot about all the gangland shootings of young black men by other young black men.

Indeed. BLM were exposed years ago for what it is that really drives them.

Love this woman for having the guts to call out these people to their face, who clearly selectively choose which black lives it is that motivate them to take to the streets. Sure won't be the loss of David Dorn anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylAh9VjLTiU

Tell me how · 02-06-2020 8:03pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

People here just want to talk about Trump. They are almost incapable of thinking about anything else.

FFS.

'Let's talk about the Mission Impossible Film series, but no one can mention Tom Cruise.'
'Let's talk about the band Queen, but no one can mention Freddie Mercury.'
'Let's talk about Barcelona FC, but no one can mention Messi.'

See how ludicrous the above would be?

You guys hopping from thread to thread lamenting the fact that everyone is talking about the President of the US should stop and think just why everyone is talking about him. Or else acknowledge the fact that his performance of everything is inadequate and embarrassing and hope like everyone else that he disappears in to obscurity in 6 months time.

MadYaker · 02-06-2020 8:04pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I grew up in not a great place and many young people got into street gangs stealing cars and joyriding.
In middle class areas this does not really happen as there are more opportunities and less temptation.
Having said that many people including myself and my family did not get involved in any of this and put our minds to working.

So yes while I admit growing up in a bad area makes things much harder people who choose to commit crime and get involved with gangs need to shoulder most of the blame.

And they do shoulder the blame. American prisons are full of young black men. I still dont understand what point you're trying to make.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:07pm

MadYaker wrote: »

So what if we weren't born? Ive no idea what you're trying to say here and I don't think you do either.

I grew up in a disadvantaged area in Ireland in which a lot of youth did end up in crime I did not.

People are talking about the United States in the 60s before I most others were even born.

Do you think me and others have white privilege?

Christy42 · 02-06-2020 8:08pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Before going there, an observation. Sheriffs are elected. Chiefs of Police are appointed by elected representatives like mayors. If we were to go the the campaign page of one of those persons, do they have as much as a policy statement on the police use of force? If not, why is this not brought directly up to their campaigns? Why are people continuing to vote for them? The most powerful tool in the US is still the vote.

But let's go a step further. Let's work on the basis that peaceful has been tried and failed. After all, every good revolution has been illegal and often violent. (Romania strikes me as an interesting counterpoint). But is there a middle ground? In these past revolutions, who has been targeted? The American Revolution, they generally burned barracks, not merchants. Irish War of Independence, I believe the targets were the government bodies like the RIC, the Army, and the like. Even the GPO is, at least, a public asset. Even Jesus, when he flipped over the tables, left third parties alone.

What we are seeing now is a jump from "peace" to turning the dial straight to at least 9. Alienating the populace is never a good way of achieving the desired result, be the method peaceful or violent. Even those who would advocate violence should have no grounds to support what is currently happening in the US.

The 1916 rising wrecked half of Dublin. They may have thought to take government buildings but the battle wrecked a lot of other things.

The peaceful method has been tried. Kaepernick tried it and people called on them to be fired for that alone. They tried in DC and were attacked by the police.

Danzy · 02-06-2020 8:09pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Before going there, an observation. Sheriffs are elected. Chiefs of Police are appointed by elected representatives like mayors. If we were to go the the campaign page of one of those persons, do they have as much as a policy statement on the police use of force? If not, why is this not brought directly up to their campaigns? Why are people continuing to vote for them? The most powerful tool in the US is still the vote.

But let's go a step further. Let's work on the basis that peaceful has been tried and failed. After all, every good revolution has been illegal and often violent. (Romania strikes me as an interesting counterpoint). But is there a middle ground? In these past revolutions, who has been targeted? The American Revolution, they generally burned barracks, not merchants. Irish War of Independence, I believe the targets were the government bodies like the RIC, the Army, and the like. Even the GPO is, at least, a public asset. Even Jesus, when he flipped over the tables, left third parties alone.

What we are seeing now is a jump from "peace" to turning the dial straight to at least 9. Alienating the populace is never a good way of achieving the desired result, be the method peaceful or violent. Even those who would advocate violence should have no grounds to support what is currently happening in the US.

The level of rioting aimed at the police is small, against corporates is small, the amount of violence aimed at black businesses, Asian businesses, local property is not. This is a war of extermination on small black owned business.

In the 6 counties during the long war, the IRA killed were 70% military or State involved, which has to be a near record in conflict.

Some cheek comparing the 2 as one person here did.

ohnonotgmail · 02-06-2020 8:09pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I grew up in a disadvantaged area in Ireland in which a lot of youth did end up in crime I did not.

People are talking about the United States in the 60s before I most others were even born.

Do you think me and others have white privilege?

racism didnt stop in the 1960s

MadYaker · 02-06-2020 8:10pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I grew up in a disadvantaged area in Ireland in which a lot of youth did end up in crime I did not.

People are talking about the United States in the 60s before I most others were even born.

Do you think me and others have white privilege?

Umm.... I don't think so? I don't think you can compare being born anywhere in Ireland with being black and born in ghetto in L.A or Chicago.

cdeb · 02-06-2020 8:10pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To turn this around, why do you think that is? I mean, assuming you agree that black people are not fundamentally different from anyone else from birth, why is it that they're entirely disproportionately represented like this? If you put on your empathy hat for a moment, what is it that would drive you to be similar? What sort of systemic injustice and oppression would it take to have created a version of CinemaGuy45 who felt like he had such limited options that criminality became something he would go for?

That is a fundamentally relevant question in fairness.

American society is set up to crap on the poor - of any colour, but black people tend to be poorer, and it seems social mobility is much harder than in the past in America. Education is poor, it's too easy for big corporations to prey on poor people and get them into debt, it's too easy then for young people to see gangs as glamorous, and so on. I'm sure there's other factors you could add in there.

That's a huge issue to fix - and it does need to be addressed. Yet it's one of the major issues (along with police training) which isn't being talked about because everyone's so quick to play the racism card. That's really not helpful.

You posted earlier in the thread about the stop and frisk, where 90% of people stopped were black or latino, and suggested that was racist. But the NYPD crime stats show 90% of people arrested for crime were black or latino. So again, that points to this being far less of a race issue than is being made out.

There absolutely is a need for the black community to recognise its own high crime rate. It can't fix that problem on its own, of course - it needs societal help. It needs both sides to work on the problem. And that's miles away from happening at the moment.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:10pm

2u2me wrote: »

Ironically it is a type of soft bigotry of low expectations as coined by famous speech writer, Michael Gerson which can be reworded as

*the subtle discrimination that takes the form of setting low expectations"

The media has a lot to answer for MTV full of rap and gangland garbage.
Many black people do make it in the States and they get called names like Uncle Toms and so on for fitting in.

Overheal · 02-06-2020 8:12pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The media has a lot to answer for MTV full of rap and gangland garbage.
Many black people do make it in the States and they get called names like Uncle Toms and so on for fitting in.

But Ted Nugent as a musician, upstanding American and honored White House guest.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:12pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

racism didnt stop in the 1960s

And class discrimination never stopped here in Ireland does not excuse little toerags in shiny tracksuits.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:16pm

MadYaker wrote: »

And they do shoulder the blame. American prisons are full of young black men. I still dont understand what point you're trying to make.

The gangland culture is the biggest problem for young black men in the Untied States who do you think can solve this?

02-06-2020 8:16pm

Overheal wrote: »

But Ted Nugent as a musician, upstanding American and honored White House guest.

???

So is Kanye West..

joe40 · 02-06-2020 8:16pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

There reason that bit in bold matters is it seems to be white people who get the blame for slavery white privilege and so on.

Anyway 1865 and even the 60s most of us were not even born for goodness sake.
Many cops in the United States are trigger happy morons and the amount of gang related crimes is the reason for a large police presence in black areas.

Why is the idea of black people tacking and taking some responsibility for gang crime seen as so radical?

I don't think it is about blame or guilt. I think most white people aren't racist and I don't think any feel guilty.
But acknowledging inequalities in a society does not mean you feel guilty for them.
America history of racial inequality from slavery to segregation laws is particularly bleak. White people who supported civil rights in the sixties weren't anti white people or guilt ridden they were simply people who viewed the status quo as wrong.
This is not a zero sum game, supporting one community does not mean you are opposed to another.

There are plenty of British people uncomfortable with their colonial past and the atrocities that were carried out. They can still be British and proud of their heritage and the good things that were achieved.
Everything doesn't have to be a simplistic tribal outlook.

hetuzozaho · 02-06-2020 8:17pm

Does anyone know the story with the guy in this video? Is he part of some law enforcement group working with the police?

https://twitter.com/WendellPierce/status/1267436484585537536

joe40 · 02-06-2020 8:18pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The gangland culture is the biggest problem for young black men in the Untied States who do you think can solve this?

Effective policing would help.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:18pm

cdeb wrote: »

That is a fundamentally relevant question in fairness.

American society is set up to crap on the poor - of any colour, but black people tend to be poorer, and it seems social mobility is much harder than in the past in America. Education is poor, it's too easy for big corporations to prey on poor people and get them into debt, it's too easy then for young people to see gangs as glamorous, and so on. I'm sure there's other factors you could add in there.

That's a huge issue to fix - and it does need to be addressed. Yet it's one of the major issues (along with police training) which isn't being talked about because everyone's so quick to play the racism card. That's really not helpful.

You posted earlier in the thread about the stop and frisk, where 90% of people stopped were black or latino, and suggested that was racist. But the NYPD crime stats show 90% of people arrested for crime were black or latino. So again, that points to this being far less of a race issue than is being made out.

There absolutely is a need for the black community to recognise its own high crime rate. It can't fix that problem on its own, of course - it needs societal help. It needs both sides to work on the problem. And that's miles away from happening at the moment.

And people scream racism if you mention it a vicious circle.

Overheal · 02-06-2020 8:21pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

???

So is Kanye West..

I shall elucidate:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ted-nugent-threatens-to-kill-barack-obama-and-hillary-clinton-during-vicious-onstage-rant-94687/

Danzy · 02-06-2020 8:22pm

joe40 wrote: »

Effective policing would help.

Police in reality only help communities police themselves.

Given murder rates in communities like Baltimore, south Chicago wtc the police are not going to be able to control that, could the national guard, maybe, maybe not.

You would have to have stop and search for every single person.

It's not going to happen unless it starts in the community.

MadYaker · 02-06-2020 8:23pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The gangland culture is the biggest problem for young black men in the Untied States who do you think can solve this?

If the cops stopped killing unarmed black people that would be a start. If there was accountability that would be a start. The reason these cops even lost their jobs is because there was a video. No video and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. There's no one person that can solve it.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:23pm

joe40 wrote: »

Effective policing would help.

I would not want to be in any police force but policing a gang infested area must be the worst normal sane people do not usually want such a job.

What you get is many low IQ trigger happy morons in the police and I high crime and murder rate means your neighborhood gets a lot of patrols.

02-06-2020 8:25pm

Overheal wrote: »

I shall elucidate:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ted-nugent-threatens-to-kill-barack-obama-and-hillary-clinton-during-vicious-onstage-rant-94687/

Inflammatory language like that doesn't help..

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 02-06-2020 8:25pm

Cops stood over someone detained.. two of them deciding to have a "spitting challenge" either spitting on the guy or near him. One of them does it 3 times.. Covid19 has been taken care of? Or does someone else need to die at the hands of cops for no apparent reason.

Scumbag cnuts!!

https://v.redd.it/otmbsm1yze251

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 8:26pm

MadYaker wrote: »

If the cops stopped killing unarmed black people that would be a start. If there was accountability that would be a start. The reason these cops even lost their jobs is because there was a video. No video and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. There's no one person that can solve it.

Those four cops are the dumbest fcuks going everybody should take responsibility for their own words and actions but these four triggered the whole crisis.:mad:

Kermit.de.frog · 02-06-2020 8:27pm

Oh for goodness sake, gotta up the standard here. Can't be defeated by the wind.

https://twitter.com/CharlieGileNBC/status/1267251347163877376

suicide_circus · 02-06-2020 8:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

???

So is Kanye West..

didnt you hear? he aint even black.

George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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