Completely Put Off Having Children

joe40

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The last thing we want is our children to have to look after us but if it happens I hope I have brought them up to know they will be there

What if they're living in a different country or even miles away in Ireland.
My kids aren't an old age insurance policy. And if they're not in a position to help it is no reflection on them. I want them to live their own lives.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane

Yeah, that's definitely my Plan B alright. Although there are places in Scandanavia and some of the more open-minded European Countries where Assisted Euthanasia is an option, so that would be the ideal situation. I fear the cocktail of drugs you would throw together yourself wouldn't work properly and you'd end up being revived and spend the rest of your days on life support or something which would be just as awful. With legal Euthanasia at least you know the job will br done.

c.p.w.g.w

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Yeah, that's definitely my Plan B alright. Although there are places in Scandanavia and some of the more open-minded European Countries where Assisted Euthanasia is an option, so that would be the ideal situation. I fear the cocktail of drugs you would throw together yourself wouldn't work properly and you'd end up being revived and spend the rest of your days on life support or something which would be just as awful. With legal Euthanasia at least you know the job will br done.

He has an extensive experience of illicit drugs in fairness to him...But legal euthanasia i hope becomes an option soon

4Ad

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane

Stockpiling my Stilnoct..
A good handful of them should work.
(And I'm not joking)..hopefully years away..

dartboardio

I'm young and although I don't really 'like' children at the moment, I definitely want them down the line.

My main reasons would be that I grew up an only child and would love to have a busy home, with people running in and out all day.

A big family around at Christmas time, when you grow old, etc.

Id like to have at least two/or three when I'm older.

I can't think of any other reason other than I suppose I'd hate to grow old and never have a family around me. Ill never be an aunt as I have no siblings so I definitely want kids.

Although I'd be pretty old fashioned in my thinking so would love the idea of a 'husband and 4 kids' and would think if I didn't have children I'd see myself as odd

I completely understand and see how a life could be great without kids, but I'd feel like I was missing out for sure if I never had them.

s1ippy

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Yeah, that's definitely my Plan B alright. Although there are places in Scandanavia and some of the more open-minded European Countries where Assisted Euthanasia is an option, so that would be the ideal situation. I fear the cocktail of drugs you would throw together yourself wouldn't work properly and you'd end up being revived and spend the rest of your days on life support or something which would be just as awful. With legal Euthanasia at least you know the job will br done.

It's quite mad that we don't have legal euthanasia and that people are reduced to suffering to the absolute death naturally. I've been lobbying my TDs for it since my grandmother developed MRSA in a nursing home recently.

My argument is that surely she deserves to be assisted in dying with dignity, seeing as she was given her death sentence by one of the nursing home staff. It's like a slow-motion murder we're all going to be watching in graphic detail. She is 100% completely lucid and aware of her pain every day at the moment. A person with an ounce of compassion wouldn't allow this suffering to happen to an insect.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

It's a gamble. How do you really know you won't enjoy being a parent unless you become one?

How do you know you'll develop a heroin addiction unless you try it? There's no going back, so some people take a different path and that's fine too. A life without children can be imbued with tremendous meaning as well.

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

This whole thread is rather depressing

You were saying people should 100% have kids! Have you never before now considered the pitfalls and risks involved in bringing lives into the world, given the fact that "depressing" is a word you use to describe a pragmatic discussion on the future? If life was free of sadness then the joy wouldn't feel as sweet. Yin and yang.

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't think many , if any , expect their children to look after them in old age tbh . What I do think is that they/we hope that our grown children would be the ones to have our best interests at heart if it ever came to a point that we couldn't make cognitive decisions ourselves .

Although I do think that's a conversation that should be had before it ever gets to that point .

Surely between the four of them they'd manage it!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

That is a strange outlook, a lot of people on this thread could do with exercising a bit more consideration before telling people straight out that their lives are meaningless, as Dr Phil said.

People contribute to the earth in all sorts of subtle ways, without having to cure coronavirus or discover a chemical element. Just because someone hasn't had children, they'll be lost to the annals of time..? As many others said, I don't know who my great grandmother was, so by your logic it was a waste of time that she spent her life rearing children because she's forgotten now.

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

What's the point if you just spend your days eating grapes and only pretending at continuing the species?

I apologise for nothing!

Tell me how

s1ippy wrote: »

It's quite mad that we don't have legal euthanasia and that people are reduced to suffering to the absolute death naturally. I've been lobbying my TDs for it since my grandmother developed MRSA in a nursing home recently.

My argument is that surely she deserves to be assisted in dying with dignity, seeing as she was given her death sentence by one of the nursing home staff. It's like a slow-motion murder we're all going to be watching in graphic detail. She is 100% completely lucid and aware of her pain every day at the moment. A person with an ounce of compassion wouldn't allow this suffering to happen to an insect.

This reads eerily like you have decided that euthanasia is the right path for your grandmother which is one of the main reasons why it is still illegal apart from exceptional cases in some locations.

I can easily see how it could lead to exploitation of older people who have someone whispering in their ear that now is the time or that the have a moment of weakness themselves and make a decision which there is no coming back from.

Where do you decide that they can have no quality of life or that it is not significantly less than what they were used to which you couldn't also make for a 50 year old who can no longer play sport or run around like they were a teenager?

s1ippy

Tell me how wrote: »

This reads eerily like you have decided that euthanasia is the right path for your grandmother which is one of the main reasons why it is still illegal apart from exceptional cases in some locations.

I can easily see how it could lead to exploitation of older people who have someone whispering in their ear that now is the time or that the have a moment of weakness themselves and make a decision which there is no coming back from.

Where do you decide that they can have no quality of life or that it is not significantly less than what they were used to which you couldn't also make for a 50 year old who can no longer play sport or run around like they were a teenager?

She has told me she would rather be dead many times since her cancer diagnosis, increasingly more in the last while. She doesn't know she has MRSA either because it would only add to her stress. I would not presume to be the one making the decision in this instance as she has all her faculties perfectly intact that this point. I would love for her to be able to make this decision, as would I rather anyone have agency in their own death when they are suffering hugely. You should have a watch of "Whose Life is it Anyway?", it's about a sculptor who loses the use of his hands and wants to be allowed to end his own life. It's not a true story to my knowledge but studies have been done on medical ethics stemming from the issues in it.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jme.bmj.com/content/medethics/21/3/179.full.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiQ2KGMj9XpAhWrUBUIHUGHBJ8QFjAMegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw08zefs20ik1FutOKoij6zY

Dave147

My son is *my* entire world, I had good fun before he was born, but the 32 years before him are not anywhere near what my life is like now. Raising a kid is hard work, but seeing his smile, watching him grow up is literally the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. I don't have a lot of money and tbh life can be a struggle with mortgage loans and bills, I don't smoke, drink or gamble and don't miss any of it. Getting home from work to see my son waiting at the door is just a feeling I never want to give up.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I was lost when my girlfriend got pregnant. I was 23 and she was 22. We'd been fcking around since Secondary School, I just couldn't believe it, she told me me she was on the pill.

I I dreaded and feared the outcome, we're Catholics, no slack at all.


But I'll tell you one thing, when that boy was born it was the prouedest moment of my life. I cried in Portlaoise hospital.

wench

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

It's a gamble. How do you really know you won't enjoy being a parent unless you become one?

If it turns out you don't enjoy it the returns policy is terrible.

jester77

jester77 wrote: »

Emigration will always be there. It's what I did, and when I see the lifestyle my kids have here in Germany compared to in Ireland, I don't see myself returning.

Covid-19 lockdown restrictions aside, most Irish children have a terrific upbringing and lifestyle in 2020. Pretty much on par with what’s available in Germany.

Without knowing anything about you, I sense that your perception of an Irish childhood is rooted in the past, possibly the somewhat grim 1980s?

One eyed Jack

If I didn’t have a child before, this thread would certainly put me off having them.


Not enough to not have children of course, because I always wanted to have children. There’s just no need for people tying themselves up in knots or going overboard with how great it is or isn’t to have or not to have children. Ultimately it’s very much a decision an individual has to make for themselves, as opposed to behaving like children where adults are expected to make their decisions for them.

pinkyeye

pinkyeye wrote: »

The point is when you're older the people who will love you unconditionally will be your children if your parents and siblings are dead..

I don't believe that is true at all. Parents will always love their children unconditionally but it doesn't work the other way.
Never a guarantee your child will love you

Sky King

Plenty of parents on here saying 'oh I don't miss getting smashed with my mates' or any of the things they did in their 20's.

For me the salient point is: If you are leading a life of relative contentment, why would you trade it all for what is in the mystery box?

That's a one-way door, man. There's no going back.

Not for me, thanks.

Feisar

wench wrote: »

If it turns out you don't enjoy it the returns policy is terrible.

I know of a woman that decided it wasn't for her and put the child up for adoption.

Wabbit Ears

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe that is true at all. Parents will always love their children unconditionally but it doesn't work the other way.
Never a guarantee your child will love you

It not true that parents will love their children unconditionally. As someone who suffered a childhood with a toxic narcissist mother I can say from personal experience peoples capacity to love is an individual thing and having kids doesn't make some people capable of it.My sister wont have kids by choice for fear that she'll be like our mother and, tbh, shes right, they are very alike.

joe40

Hamachi wrote: »

Covid-19 lockdown restrictions aside, most Irish children have a terrific upbringing and lifestyle in 2020. Pretty much on par with what’s available in Germany.

Without knowing anything about you, I sense that your perception of an Irish childhood is rooted in the past, possibly the somewhat grim 1980s?

Yes, I agree with this, Ireland has its issues but overall a good place to rear kids.

nthclare

Out the other side now, my son's 19.
I'm a reasonably young dad, only 44 so he's independent and going his own way...

Paid my last weekly maintenance there last Wednesday...no doubt I'll help him out if he's stuck for money now and again and he's welcome to come stay with me anytime.

But it's a new chapter in his life and mine, he told me last week he won't be coming to me as much anymore, nothing personal dad

I was his age in the 90's and I hardly ever seen my parents. Was living between Cork and Clare from the age of 19 until around 25 coming home now and again, more so in the First two summers..
Every weekend out Clubbing or off to Lahinch or Doolin with the lads, staying in tent's and youth hostels or a mobile home..

Taking yolk's or getting pissed... harmless fun tbh

cgcsb

sabat wrote: »

The urge to reproduce is not a "societal norm"; it's a biological fact and the "freedom" people think they are experiencing is a string of products and services that have been packaged up and marketed to them by the capitalist consumerist machine by manipulating those same natural urges. Put simply, having a couple piss their 20s and 30s away is a lot more profitable for the machine than them settling down quietly.

Is that true? I mean a child can piss through your savings pretty quick.

s7ryf3925pivug

Premature birth and two weeks in NICU. For most of the first year I wondered if he'd wake up every time he went to bed. My wife is only now coming out of an extended period of postnatal depression characterized by anger and paranoia. My kid has rarely slept through a night and most typically would wake twice and stay awake for a long time. I have dealt with that by myself since he was about 9 months old on medical advice, so I've gone through an extended period of sleep deprivation. Took a break from my career which had been going very well. Been living off capital for the last year. Not sure what the landscape will be like for me going back, in light of covid etc.

Lots of surprises. Kid is thriving now at two and I'm still happy we had him. But I've changed my mind about having another. Would still like one in principle, but I don't have capacity to handle any of the above issues occurring again, or the money to take time off working again if they did.

It would have been easier to have had kids younger. I had a lot more energy at 30 than I do now at 40.

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

So you're saying that having kids MIGHT give you the post mortem satisfaction of an unknown relative looking you up on some family tree register. Wow, the joy, it's a tough one but I'll take money and silence instead thanks. 99.9% of humans are forgotten 100 years after their death, I'm not special.

cgcsb

FVP3 wrote: »

Well the best time to be alive is not the peak, when it might go downhill, but just before the peak and approaching it. The baby boomers probably lived in the best time, at least for the West. Although they did have the cold war over their heads. for Europe and the US the best times are probably in the past.

In China having a child might be pretty exciting, afterall the change seen in this generation has been light speed.

cgcsb

FluffyTowel wrote: »

Think we are better off just getting knocked up at 16 or so, and then free to enjoy later years in peace.

Problem is you have to be born wealthy to house yourself now, you'd end up 3 generations in a house until the grand child could afford to cripple himself with a mortgage at age 40.

JustAThought

I was watching a young adult swinging with great enthuiasm in a local playground and was torn between feeling aggrieved and amused. The he started a high pitched wailing as he swung and I realised he was mentally disabled. I looked around and I will never forget the look of absolute despair and anguish on his mother face nearby.

A healthy child or one that has prospects of recovery in Ireland is one story, but having a severely disabled, autistic or mentally ill one is an entirely different saga and one where to our unending shame the civil servants and politicians that make the decisions have utterly thrown those parents to the wolves with a life of unforgiving and relentless pain and merciless begging for basics and services with no end or hope except either the parents or child dying. God help the patents or single mother with a badly autistic or profoundly disabled child - it will be life of begging from charities for the little they can give and no services and merciless misery. As a nation we shoiud be utterly ashamed of what we make these families go through while we fling houses and money at allcomers and every other project.

cgcsb

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane

We euthanise dogs if they have chronic incurable pain but we cannot afford the same mercy to people, even if they beg for it. Quite shameful really.

j.s. pill II

An interesting take on the 'absolute squalor' thesis in the Irish Times today :pac:

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/is-it-okay-to-have-children-in-a-time-of-climate-chaos-1.4258290

EmmetSpiceland

Jeez, I’m surprised some of you ever leave the house with all the “what ifs” that could befall you.

bitofabind

j.s. pill II wrote: »

An interesting take on the 'absolute squalor' thesis in the Irish Times today :pac:

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/is-it-okay-to-have-children-in-a-time-of-climate-chaos-1.4258290

I highly doubt too many people are thinking about climate change and the state of the world when it comes to their decision to have or not have kids. It's too abstract a concept.

From experience and certainly if you look at this thread, people fall into buckets of either primal urge to reproduce or in other words were / became "broody", natural progression of a relationship and kids seemed like a logical next step, never thought about it but got preggers and sure it's all been lovely or on the other side - never imagined or wanted kids, or never met the right person to do it with, so didn't have kids. With some variations in between. I think the decision is a lot more personal to people than "I want to save the planet by not producing spawn."

Roger the cabin boy

j.s. pill II wrote: »

An interesting take on the 'absolute squalor' thesis in the Irish Times today :pac:

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/is-it-okay-to-have-children-in-a-time-of-climate-chaos-1.4258290

How about:

"Oh hai! we are having kids and they will be brought up as we are, to love and respect the earth and to show others that respect and love.

We will be volunteering to clean the beaches, we will live by example and be sustainable, we will use ourselves and our generations to encourage others to do same."


Christ on a bike, this generation is pathetic. No wonder when we are confronted with one of natures less lethal torments, we just run indoors and hide under the bed.