Completely Put Off Having Children

s1ippy

I feel like this thread is probably going to be closed quite quickly but it's worth a shot to get some insight. It's not suited to the parenting forum but it is certainly inspired by the pregnancy one, where I know it would not be allowed. I hope it's allowed to be discussed as it's something which has been weighing heavily on me for years.

For a very long time now my partner and I have been seriously considering whether or not we will have children. We are erring on the side of not, because we feel that society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it. We have a few fertile years left and would be extremely amenable to fostering down the line so will continue to mull it over, at least until we purchase a house.

- To people who are sure they aren't having children, what are your reasons?

- To people who want children, I'd love to know your secret... what is the light at the end of tunnel that you see for the next generation?

- To people who already have children, was it everything you were expecting or were there a lot of surprises?

It's a fraught issue and I don't want to offend anyone but I just got off the phone with a good friend who was telling me about her postnatal depression and far from being irrational it sounded like she had a huge amount of very well-founded regrets that all suffocated her after she had already gone the entire way to bringing a new life into the world. She's managing well at the moment but she'll never be the same after it.

On the bright side, I know at least two children alive now who seem to be doing mostly ok.

pawdee

This be the verse.

Gonad

As Tom Green recently said

Wait until you are 50 to have kids so you will be dead by the time they are unemployed adults . You will know them when they are cute and die before they become assholes lol.

antgal23

s1ippy wrote: »

I feel like this thread is probably going to be closed quite quickly but it's worth a shot to get some insight. It's not suited to the parenting forum but it is certainly inspired by the pregnancy one, where I know it would not be allowed. I hope it's allowed to be discussed as it's something which has been weighing heavily on me for years.

For a very long time now my partner and I have been seriously considering whether or not we will have children. We are erring on the side of not, because we feel that society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it. We have a few fertile years left and would be extremely amenable to fostering down the line so will continue to mull it over, at least until we purchase a house.

- To people who are sure they aren't having children, what are your reasons?

- To people who want children, I'd love to know your secret... what is the light at the end of tunnel that you see for the next generation?

- To people who already have children, was it everything you were expecting or were there a lot of surprises?

It's a fraught issue and I don't want to offend anyone but I just got off the phone with a good friend who was telling me about her postnatal depression and far from being irrational it sounded like she had a huge amount of very well-founded regrets that all suffocated her after she had already gone the entire way to bringing a new life into the world. She's managing well at the moment but she'll never be the same after it.

On the bright side, I know at least two children alive now who seem to be doing mostly ok.

"absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it. "

I think with this mindset you have pre - natal depression, best buy a hamster

Upforthematch

Lots of covid babies being conceived at the moment so they say.

Not feeling broody op?

Feets

I think its great that you ask yourselves that question, some people don't.
The urge for me was strong, but not to have more than two as I do not have the patience for three and still can manage a social life for myself. My life was great before, its great after, better, but I am married to someone who wanted kids and is good with them. That is my angle on it.
Some people find out the hard way they aren't good at parenting and outsource as many of the parenting jobs they can, it makes me wonder, why did they have kids.
I hear you re society not being great. Its not. I am slightly worried myself lately too. But its our job to raise kids to make smart choices and I hope it works out.
Best of luck at your decision, when you know, you know.

mr_edge_to_you

It's so hard to describe it. My kids are 8 and 5. Kids are flipping hard work, minding them becomes the most important thing in your life. They'll drive you to despair and cost you a fortune. They row with each other numerous times a day. I come home from work and my wife needs to go for a walk to clear her head.

At the same time, they're amazing little people. Watching their personalities develop. My daughter is super intelligent and looks like she has a talent for arts and crafts. My son is the funniest little man and kind. He's the best craic! We brought them to Disneyland Paris last year and it was the greatest feeling. My wife and I were blessed with our upbringings and all we want is to at least match the childhoods we had.

In saying all that, we do look forward to a weekend away without the kids every couple of months.

AlphabetCards

pawdee wrote: »

This be the verse.

He wasn't wrong.

Blaze420

s1ippy wrote: »

I feel like this thread is probably going to be closed quite quickly but it's worth a shot to get some insight. It's not suited to the parenting forum but it is certainly inspired by the pregnancy one, where I know it would not be allowed. I hope it's allowed to be discussed as it's something which has been weighing heavily on me for years.

For a very long time now my partner and I have been seriously considering whether or not we will have children. We are erring on the side of not, because we feel that society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it. We have a few fertile years left and would be extremely amenable to fostering down the line so will continue to mull it over, at least until we purchase a house.

- To people who are sure they aren't having children, what are your reasons?

- To people who want children, I'd love to know your secret... what is the light at the end of tunnel that you see for the next generation?

- To people who already have children, was it everything you were expecting or were there a lot of surprises?

It's a fraught issue and I don't want to offend anyone but I just got off the phone with a good friend who was telling me about her postnatal depression and far from being irrational it sounded like she had a huge amount of very well-founded regrets that all suffocated her after she had already gone the entire way to bringing a new life into the world. She's managing well at the moment but she'll never be the same after it.

On the bright side, I know at least two children alive now who seem to be doing mostly ok.

Society or the future never came in to it for us - the mrs wanted a kid or kids since the early days of our relationship but I didn’t really care for it, she also has PCOS (basically a brick wall to any thoughts of that). We tried for 7 years and just earlier this year began discussing whether fostering or adoption would fill the gap for us - and just as the universe always does, found out she is pregnant only a week or 2 after that discussion and baby is now due November

From my side (male), I never had a baby shaped hole in my life or my future - it was simply something that didn’t register anywhere in my plans or my dreams for what the future would be like at any stage of my life. Now that we are due one, I still don’t know what the future holds but it’s a rollercoaster some days of white fear (what the **** are we getting in to? - how am I supposed to “dad”?) and others of pure joy that a new addition to both our bloodlines will be with us in a few months. I also looked deep in myself and realised and that one of the core fears I’ve had for a while without realising was seeing my parents pass away without them ever knowing or seeing a grandchild (I think that’s from stories my mam used to tell me that choked her up when her own Mam died only weeks before my birth).

I don’t know what I’m trying to say to be honest but I wouldn’t call a dead end stop to it at any point - if even one of you have the desire to have one then go for it and don’t stop until all the options are exhausted. Life is too short to put definite answers on anything I think.

eviltwin

My kids are my inspiration, I know that sounds trite but it's true. My motivation was having a crap childhood, I wanted a family of my own, a do-over. Maybe I wouldn't have felt the same need if I came from a normal family. It's been everything I wanted and more, the best part is my relationship with my adult child. It's just the best part of being a parent. It's tough and not for everyone and that's okay.

Better Than Christ

pawdee wrote: »

This be the verse.

They bring you up, your mum and dad...

El Gato De Negocios

I have two (3 and 22 months) and its everything and more that I imagined. Yes its stressful, particularly when they are very small and wont stop crying. Yes, they wake up at 6 every morning and my free time is very limited and social life has taken a backseat, even before C19. Yes they are messy, expensive, annoying and obstreperous by times.

But they are so full of love and wonder that any minor annoyance is forgotten when they give me a hug and a kiss, when they tell me they love me, when they start randomly quoting lines from the gruffalo or peter rabbit, when they crawl into bed beside me for a snuggle, when they ask to hear a song they like, when they dance like monkeys while listening to music from the jungle book.

They have made life better in every way that actually matters and I'm trying to treasure the extra time we have together while they are not in creche.

SEPT 23 1989

Do young couples now sit down and "decide" to have their first baby

I know we didn't

rob316

Kids are amazing but hard work. You feel like the luckiest person in the world, the only one doing this role but its the most natural thing in life. I'd find life very empty without my kid and look forward to having another.

Blaze420

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Do young couples now sit down and "decide" to have their first baby

I know we didn't

Well yeah, it’s a logical thing to do. Can we support it? Is the house we are renting/living in suitable for a child? How will we afford x and y? Might sound cold but a child is a lifelong undertaking, it’s not something that should be left to random chance or an “oops I’m pregnant” moment I think.

eviltwin

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Do young couples now sit down and "decide" to have their first baby

I know we didn't

It's a pity more people don't put thought into having children

rob316

To be honest I'd rather regret having a kid than regret not having one. My uncle is 60 he never found a partner, always wanted kids and he always says it the big hole in his life.
Your children are your legacy, if all goes to plan its what you leave behind.

Metroid diorteM

Do you have support beyond your partner? Friendly neighbours, family who visit regularly and would help with babysitting?

Do you live in an area that is not too densely populated but not too sparsely populated? Do you have space in your home for a teenager who needs a desk for homework?

How flexible is your job when you've had months of sleep deprivation (test yourself by cutting your sleep in half for a week)?

Are you fit and healthy? Are your parents infirm? Do you have savings? How are your cooking skills? Do you ever have friction about chores with your partner?

Can you watch baby shark on youtube 7000 times without losing your sanity?

Having a child ends up as an act of giving. You give up yourself. Dont have kids for yourself. They are your gift to the world and they are expensive.

It's worth it, but it's hard as nails.

Geuze

s1ippy wrote: »

because we feel that society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it.

- To people who already have children, was it everything you were expecting or were there a lot of surprises?

Your first statement is false, society is not absolute squalor.


Having children brings unending joy into my life.

It's the most valuable action I've ever taken.

No big surprises, no, just the usual worries.

They are mighty craic.

Purple Mountain

I always find it funny when people get sentimental about having a 'baby'.
The baby, cute stage lasts less than a year!

Blaze420

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I always find it funny when people get sentimental about having a 'baby'.
The baby, cute stage lasts less than a year!

It’s still your blood and a living continuation of you that will be here after you are gone. If you just want something for the “cute”, get a puppy.

Mr_Muffin

In what way do you think society is absolute squalor?

Purple Mountain

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I always find it funny when people get sentimental about having a 'baby'.
The baby, cute stage lasts less than a year!

If people thought about having teenagers, humanity would be history pdq!

New parent here, best thing that's ever happened us (so far) and has brought us closer (so far), no regrets here (so far).

If you have doubts, don't do it. No baby should be born to people who weren't sure it was wanted - though in most cases it works out anyway.

rob316

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I always find it funny when people get sentimental about having a 'baby'.
The baby, cute stage lasts less than a year!

That wasn't even my favourite stage, my lad is 10 now and this is probably the most enjoyable age.

SEPT 23 1989

For me when I witnessed my daughter coming into the world I knew what we were put on this earth for in that moment

Money planning etc is meaningless

eviltwin

Candie wrote: »

If people thought about having teenagers, humanity would be history pdq!

New parent here, best thing that's ever happened us (so far) and has brought us closer (so far), no regrets here (so far).

If you have doubts, don't do it. No baby should be born to people who weren't sure it was wanted - though in most cases it works out anyway.

Congratulations!!!! So so happy for you Candie.

0lddog

rob316 wrote: »

That wasn't even my favourite stage, my lad is 10 now and this is probably the most enjoyable age.

Its fine untill they get bicycles.

Then they start posting on the cycling forum










:P

Thelonious Monk

rob316 wrote: »

Kids are amazing but hard work. You feel like the luckiest person in the world, the only one doing this role but its the most natural thing in life. I'd find life very empty without my kid and look forward to having another.

Was your life empty before your kid? Personally I think true happiness can only come from within.

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

Congratulations!!!! So so happy for you Candie.

Thanks, he's a couple of months old now so I'll get to tell him how he heralded the start of a pandemic!

sunshinew

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

For me when I witnessed my daughter coming into the world I knew what we were put on this earth for in that moment

Money planning etc is meaningless

When you say "we", are you referring to you and your partner? Or all of humanity?

rob316

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Was your life empty before your kid? Personally I think true happiness can only come from within.

As a child is a part of you, that statement doesn't ring true.

Thelonious Monk

sunshinew wrote: »

When you say "we", are you referring to you and your partner? Or all of humanity?

He means him.

DanielODonnell

I dislike young parents nowadays, they look down on others who don't have children and they would complain if you had children and were a bad parent, you can't win. They also are obsessed with paedophiles too, you dare not even look at a child when outside as an ugly loner man as you could get accused of being a potential paedophile. Look at those paedophile hunting videos, they are obsessed with those I notice too, always commenting under them.

DanielODonnell

DanielODonnell wrote: »

I dislike young parents nowadays, they look down on others who don't have children and they would complain if you had children and were a bad parent, you can't win. They also are obsessed with paedophiles too, you dare not even look at a child when outside as an ugly loner man as you could get accused of being a potential paedophile. Look at those paedophile hunting videos, they are obsessed with those I notice too, always commenting under them.

99.9% of that is in your head.

cj maxx

society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it.
That is complete and utter sh1te.
That is society. It's **** and full of nasty people and kunts out to harm you and steal from you.
It was the same when you were a child , when your father was ,and his father before him.
This " I can't bring a child into this evil world" is nonsense.
Fatherhood is great. Not all the time, but alot of the time.
Personally , at 35/36 I got the drive to sire. I didn't worry if them growing up in a different world to my childhood was a reason to not have them.
You can't control everything

AlphabetCards

Candie wrote: »

99.9% of that is in your head.

Look, we all live in a filter bubble, your experience of media will be different to his. It's very likely that he opens youtube and this is the kind of **** that is put in front of him day in day out. He obviously clicks on it, in outrage, and thus propagates the effect.

Sorry about that

I have children and am happier than I ever was, but I always wanted them. I know plenty of parents who do nothing but complain about their kids, and I wonder why they decided to have them at all.

I have great respect for people who listen to their hearts and choose not to have children. And it's no more selfish to opt out than to opt in.

jam_mac_jam

If you need to ask what the reasons are for having a child you probably don't really want to. It's can be hard and it's a lot to give up and change. To do that you are better really wanting to in the first place.

All people who have kids will tell you it's life changing & kids are the most important thing in their lives. Their children give them reasons to live etc etc.
Great.
Fair play
They will look at people without kids & feel pity for them, for they do not understand the great love etc etc.
Whatever.
Some people want kids, some people are not bothered.
Some people who do not have kids have a great life. Some people who have kids think that those without are missing out.

It's very personal, for me, I don't want them. I have endless amounts of kids in my life, my niece & nephew are the most important, I would die for those kids. I have many friends with kids, they love me & I love them.
I don't have kids, I am not interested in having my own & the older I have gotten the less I would want them, I'm so glad I'm not a woman with a massive urge for kids.
I like my life. Just the way it is.

standardg60

I am introverted, live by choice alone, don't enjoy the vast majority of people's company, basically lockdown has made no difference to my life.
Personally was never cut out for children, but then I met someone who made me feel as though they were the mother of my children and was suddenly enthusiastic about it, but they didn't feel the same, this was some years ago.
Never felt the same way again with anyone else, make of it what you will.

pauldavis123

I spoke to a lot of elderly people who have had kids. The kids have grown up and moved out. I asked them in hindsight was it all worth it. From those I asked about 80% said no.

Most of these people were wealthy and intelligent which seems to correlate with the data coming from most western countries.

TheBoyConor

Geuze wrote: »

Your first statement is false, society is not absolute squalor.


Having children brings unending joy into my life.

It's the most valuable action I've ever taken.

No big surprises, no, just the usual worries.

They are mighty craic.

Must not have done a whole lot in your life if having your drains clogged up is your most valuable action.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

All people who have kids will tell you it's life changing & kids are the most important thing in their lives. Their children give them reasons to live etc etc.
Great.
Fair play
They will look at people without kids & feel pity for them, for they do not understand the great love etc etc.
Whatever.
Some people want kids, some people are not bothered.
Some people who do not have kids have a great life. Some people who have kids think that those without are missing out.

It's very personal, for me, I don't want them. I have endless amounts of kids in my life, my niece & nephew are the most important, I would die for those kids. I have many friends with kids, they love me & I love them.
I don't have kids, I am not interested in having my own & the older I have gotten the less I would want them, I'm so glad I'm not a woman with a massive urge for kids.
I like my life. Just the way it is.

Anyone who pities someone who freely chooses not to have kids is a fool. It's perfectly possible to enjoy and like kids - as you do - but not want to be a parent.

I think most parents acknowledge that, it's just the smug few with the loudest voices that give the impression it's a norm. Having kids is great if you want them, having the freedom not to have them if you don't want them is great too. No choice is better than the other, people are just different.

One eyed Jack

s1ippy wrote: »

To people who already have children, was it everything you were expecting or were there a lot of surprises?

It turned out to be more than I was expecting tbh, in a good way, in that there were so many negatives I felt certain of and had planned for before he was even conceived, that just never came to pass, and there have been so many, many positives that I just didn’t foresee at the time.

I always told myself that by the time he was a teenager he’d hate me, and that was ok because at least I’ll know I’d have raised him right. Turns out that now that he is a teenager, doesn’t hate me, the opposite really, and he’s not the feral little shìtbag I thought he would be. I realise now that I was basing my expectations on my own childhood and my relationship with my own old man.

The idea of society being fcuked up as one of the reasons putting ye off having children? You’re having children, you’re not expected to cure cancer! By that I simply mean society is what it is - people who were once children themselves, and their children. Society evolves through the next generation, and so the society you’re familiar with will evolve as your children grow up and develop. You’re placing unrealistic expectations on yourselves if you’re put off the idea of having children because you imagine society is in absolute squalor - you’re your children’s lens through which they see society, and that can be either something positive, or something unfortunately negative for the child or children in your care.

s1ippy

Sorry about that wrote: »

And it's no more selfish to opt out than to opt in.

Definitely agree with this and a lot of other sage advice throughout the thread.

cj maxx wrote: »

society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it.
That is complete and utter sh1te.
That is society. It's **** and full of nasty people and kunts out to harm you and steal from you.
It was the same when you were a child , when your father was ,and his father before him.
This " I can't bring a child into this evil world" is nonsense.
Fatherhood is great. Not all the time, but alot of the time.
Personally , at 35/36 I got the drive to sire. I didn't worry if them growing up in a different world to my childhood was a reason to not have them.
You can't control everything

You can control whether or not to bring them into the world.

Squalor doesn't mean evil. There's a lot worth living for but I know a lot more people having a bad time than a good one these days and the divides in society are only growing.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

If you need to ask what the reasons are for having a child you probably don't really want to. It's can be hard and it's a lot to give up and change. To do that you are better really wanting to in the first place.

Hape of nonsense. I know plenty who had kids by accident and are delighted. Also know several who regret their decision about 60% of the time. You can't just assert that merely asking questions about an action with enormous ramifications for the rest of your life means that you don't want to take that action. The opposite is likely true, because you're considering it in spite of the consequences.

jam_mac_jam

Also nobody with kids is ever going to say they regret having kids.

fits

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Also nobody with kids is ever going to say they regret having kids.

Mostly because their brains have been bathed in oxytocin and they don’t actually regret having kids.

jam_mac_jam

s1ippy wrote: »

Definitely agree with this and a lot of other sage advice throughout the thread.


You can control whether or not to bring them into the world.

Squalor doesn't mean evil. There's a lot worth living for but I know a lot more people having a bad time than a good one these days and the divides in society are only growing.


Hape of nonsense. I know plenty who had kids by accident and are delighted. Also know several who regret their decision about 60% of the time. You can't just assert that merely asking questions about an action with enormous ramifications for the rest of your life means that you don't want to take that action. The opposite is likely true, because you're considering it in spite of the consequences.

No some people don't want kids. They may be delighted by a suprise but that's not what I am taking about.

If you have to look for reasons to have one maybe you shouldn'.

One eyed Jack

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Also nobody with kids is ever going to say they regret having kids.

Ohh I don’t know about that now :pac:

JupiterKid

As a gay man, I always imagined that children and any option of having them would be completely off the agenda for me whatever direction my life took.

Of course these days, with the five year anniversary of the same-sex marriage referendum being won, surrogacy, fostering, adoption and joint parenting by gay and lesbian couples becoming more commonplace, lesbian couples having children especially and having the same challenges, joys, tribulations and issues as heterosexual parents in terms of parenting, the chance of me being a parent would be much more likely if I was 10 or 20 years younger. At 45, I think that ship has sailed.

My partner and I discussed the possibility of children a couple of times, and whilst we both adore kids, we were under no illusion that they are very hard work, and that’s just in terms of making children a reality, given the challenges...

I am happy to have seen my nephew and niece grow up and to have been a good uncle to them, and I have many friends who are parents, the oldest kids now in their teens (and two friends whose eldest are in their 20s) - they’ve told me that they are glad they had children, but that you have to completely put your own needs aside for the needs of your offspring, which is something I would be prepared to do if I was a parent.

I’ve been told that I would be a good dad, as I love to play with kids and love the way that they have amazing imaginations and a very different, simpler, and largely happier worldview than often cynical and jaded adults. Of course given my struggles with severe anxiety closely followed by my descent into alcoholism between 2010 and 2017, I couldn’t have looked after a potted plant at my lowest ebb, let alone a child. But that said, a few people in recovery told me that one of their biggest regrets was not being there for their kids when they were in the midst of addiction, and the responsibilities of parenting seem frighteningly heavy.

Of course it’s a rather cruel irony of life that often those who long the most for children are the ones denied that chance, for various reasons, and those who have children and cannot or will not raise them properly.

fits

I wasn’t sure if I wanted kids until I was told I probably couldn’t have kids and then I had twins - one of whom will probably live with us a long time. Ha ha!

Wouldn’t change a thing. I honestly have never been happier or more grounded even though it’s fecking hard at times.