Transport Aircraft

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182880#Comment_120182880

But sure nothing is their "primary" task.

The have a number of long standing core tasks however and MATS is one.

I think any DFA mandarin would respond to your suggestion with 'feck off, we aren't even the biggest users from among the Govt Depts, Depts of Taoiseach and then Finance/Public Expenditure are'.

In other words, its as well to fund it as a DoD budget line and have the Air Corps manage it without worrying about having to invoice people for it. To do otherwise would be pointlessly time consuming.

EchoIndia

Larebre34 is right. Creating a bureaucratic process to move money between Departments or agencies is not a good use of resources, when the matter can be (and is) dealt with through the annual Estimates process.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184761#Comment_120184761

I can't find an online source but was it not the leased Gulfstream III?

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184805#Comment_120184805

IAC CD ROM brought out years ago has him indeed coming down the stairs of the G3 249.

roadmaster

Either way we badly need a dedicated MATS aircraft. We shouldnt have other aircraft such as a casa pulled of duties to do a mats run.

As Dohvolle & Labre have mentioned before a dassualt falcon would make lots of sense. But i think the state would maybe to afraid to buy one as they are terrfied what the press might say.

I think we could end up with a 737 or a A320 Combi as the government can sale it as a Medical, national emergency, Humantrian aircraft and then as a secondary role a mats aircraft

jonnybigwallet

Good idea! Like the idea of an A320. Not keen on Boeing. Aer Lingus could maybe do some day to day maintenance on an Airbus as the have em in their fleet.

Larbre34

I've been saying a wet leased A320 for years.

I was concerned that the lack of a dedicated transport plane could compromise that but now that a 295M is on the way, an A32X would certainly fit the bill.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120187526#Comment_120187526

Overkill for most MATS tasks, though, surely?

Psychlops

Sadly in most countries MATS means Military Airlift Transport not Ministerial..

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186730#Comment_120186730

Personal preference or is there a reason for not using something like a 737 or a BBJ configuration? Considering Ryanair have 400 plus of them, they might know a thing or 2 about maintaining them.

Strumms

The A320/321 is a narrow body aircraft, so in terms of the cabin width and height, size of main deck cargo door, you’d be limited to what equipment and cargo you could haul dimensionally and indeed the weight too. Any A320s that are flying cargo, it’s not generally heavy freight and non conveyable items or military cargo / vehicles…

I’m still for a couple of newish second hand Hercs… screw the cost…. We can according to some be penny pinching when it comes to looking after our own needs and expectations but spending billions on… ? Anyway..upgrade cockpit to glass cockpit, Collins Aerospace did the upgrade for the French Hercs….

can carry troops, cargo or a combination of both. Land and takeoff from rough / dirt strips. Cargo on pallets or containers…or a combination of both….

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188934#Comment_120188934

Dont worry i am sure there would be plenty of advisors and department heads willing to go for the spin with the minister to fill up the seats

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190856#Comment_120190856

And general attitudes like that mean we will likely end up with something that will barely cover the task with little to no growth margins or ability for other duties, because otherwise the Government of the day will get hammered.

jonnybigwallet

An A320 could fulfill Min. Transport and troop deployments overseas. Could fit out the front of the cabin as VIP accommodation and rear for service personnel. It would reflect well on national prestige.

sparky42

So reports of a "larger" second hand jet to be procured:

https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1621093460710146049

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190350#Comment_120190350

No European Governments should be operating American planes.

Airbus is a massive employer and flag carrier for Europe Inc, and it offers a range that far exceeds Boeing for flexibility and options.

Airlines make commercial decisions and thats fine, but Governments can and should fly the flag.

Airbus, Dassault, Pilatus, ATR, Leonardo, Vulcan, Saab.

No shortage of solutions for any air transport need there.

roadmaster

According to the journal its a new/2nd hand 10 seater jet and also a deposit confirmed for a transport aircraft

https://www.thejournal.ie/new-government-jet-5985682-Feb2023/

Larbre34

About time, sounds like a Falcon 7X / Global 5000 ballpark. Citation models just don't have the range and GVs probably have a bad name in the AC. And as I said earlier, European or Euro partnered is preferable.

Incidentally, the deposit on the Transport Aircraft is for the C295MW already discussed.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192274#Comment_120192274

Its funny how the headlines are about MMs speach about a government jet but hardly a mention about the casa

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192569#Comment_120192569

Is it? A "Government Jet" is news, it's something to be used as an attack from some of the Left, when whatever is selected and costed we will likely be told how many "insert occupation of choice here" jobs it could have funded instead. A Transport plane is just something that the DF "plays with", a nothing story like the manpower crisis.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192723#Comment_120192723

Like I said is anyone surprised by such comments, one of the reasons for not replacing the Gulfstream back in the day...

Though I'm sure if it was Mary Lou announcing it for President Gerry, many of those tweets would think it was the greatest choice in the history of the state...

Larbre34

The old saying in American politics is 'throw it out with the trash'.

While all the chatter of the day is about something else (nursing home fees, disability allowances), make an announcement about something unrelated that you can't be bothered taking a load of inevitable abuse for on another day, so that it gets lost in the rest of the trash. Government Jets is an ideal thing.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192789#Comment_120192789

Theres a 50/50 chance that her well fed arse will be the first one to use Seat 1A.

Maybe we should humiliate her by making sure there is no serviceable Air Corps business jet available for her first EU leaders meeting in Brussels and she can fly to Charlerois with the rest of the cattle on Ryanair.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191831#Comment_120191831

The article (with the all-to-common plural "aircrafts") says:

"The procurement process will consider both new and second-hand replacement aircrafts, added the Tánaiste."

Larbre34

France gave Greece a free 7X recently to satisfy some contractual dispute or other.

Do we have any arguments going on with France per chance?!

Meanwhile some nice shots of candidate planes in other Air Force / State colours.

sparky42

Defence related? I doubt it, have we bought anything French recently? I do like the look of the Falcon I have to say.

roadmaster

Well are Tainiste seems to be on good friendly terms with Mr Macron , so maybe if he did a deal with him for MCM vessels, Caracels and either Mirages or Rafales they might throw in a falcon in the deal

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195052#Comment_120195052

If we went shopping for that list, a Falcon as a signing bonus would be about right…

roadmaster

I know the headline bill would be massive but the way the defence industry is now with so many companies merged you could actually nearly put a tender out to re equip the defence forces from one main supplier

roadmaster

Another Article about the Government jet. Its being thrown around in a few articles that the jet like this could of being used to fly to kabul. Surley a tranaport casa would be way more approiate for that?

Also Daniel McConnell indicating a Gulfstream, is he Bluffing or does he know something?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41063819.html