Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

notuslimited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961991#Comment_121961991

He was in Aer Lingus rising to Dublin Station Manager before joining Ryanair, so while he is ex Ryanair, he’s also ex Aer Lingus……and ex Norwegian as well.

California Dreamer

EI right seat on 320 and 321LR to right seat 330 in 2/3 years. Another couple of years of that to left seat 320/321. 7/8 years of that before left seat 330.

Some senior FO's would rather stay on the 330 than become a junior captain.

Do your 30 years and have a pension at the end of around 2 million.

Captain_Crash

I’ve heard that in response to B6 starting DUB-JFK/BOS that EI are going to start trialing free alcohol on flights into JFK and BOS.

basill

Your maths is a bit off. LHS 330 is currently greater than 20 years. 2m pension cap is driven by the governments SFT cap. Works out at approximately 67k before tax till you die for most. It's no longer the carrot it once was for new joiners. Many will be crunching the numbers and working out that locking in say half that and saving cash by going abroad will net them a much bigger retirement pile.

California Dreamer

There are a lot of retirements next few years which will shave quite a bit of time off that. Big intake late 80s early 90s.

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965309#Comment_121965309

There was talk of reintroducing free alcohol (with meals) back towards the end of Sean Doyle's stint (the last time there seemed to be some kind of brand/product 'plan'). Personally I favor closing the bar after that. A plane is a sealed tube... too much nonsense going on these days... You're not hilarious... You're drunk. (Same for duty free... How can that make money???).

The food and snack offerings throughout a TA flight could be improved. Get rid of buy-on-board. As an example... The ice-cream on the longer sectors is a nice boredom 'break', and easy on the crew - spoon integrated into the lid, pass it out and pick it up a few minutes later. And it's both solid and liquid, so works to quench thirst a little.

Something similar and low-dirt generating (not crisps - all over the floor and blankets - for example) would be an extra above most carriers and cost little. Get rid of that pasta/mayo 'salad' muck.. it's not salad it's stodge… it's awful. The little things often carry the most impact. And coming through the cabin with water/juice again would be nice. I know it's in the galley, but it's all a bit 'low service' for the last decade or so.

And the final snack is fine with me, but maybe get rid of the spoon/milk/sugar/plastic crap and just pass a stirrer out with the hot drink and ask if they want milk and sugar, from a box on the trolley. So much packaging and mess.

PS: how's JetBlue doing on those routes?

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966004#Comment_121966004

yeah agreed on all points, except that duty free does indeed make money!
I don’t think the glass of wine with meal is necessarily anything to do with JetBlue, it’s been long rumoured and was due to be trialled but Covid struck

Astral Nav

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964200#Comment_121964200

20-25 years for LHS A330. As another poster stated pension is no longer that great. Effectively half or less and many later joiners will not even make that. Starting pay for direct entry pilots very low, some of last year's went back to their old jobs pronto. EI is a fine company with high flying standards but not quite the gem it was to work for.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968089#Comment_121968089

Have to disagree on the 20-25 year due to the amount of retirements in the next 1-2 years of senior skippers.

Captain_Crash

Currently yeah 20 to 25 years for the LHS on a 330. There will be some retirements soon so that lead time will drop but not by much, there are plenty of captains who have been in the LHS on the 320 for 15/20 years who are next on the seniority list. I can’t see the ave wait dropping below 18 years maybe.

CoisFharraige

Back to the hiring/XLR issues - both sides met yesterday and will meet again next Wednesday

Seems serious now that hiring will slow if this isn't resolved and the aircraft put elsewhere but pilots rightfully not backing down

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/04/03/aer-lingus-and-pilots-union-to-resume-talks-on-pay-dispute-next-week/

Rowley Birkin QC

Is there any way on the aer lingus website to put in a set of dates and a departure airport & get results on all available departures?

I'm nearly positive I stumbled across it at one stage but can't locate it again.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974332#Comment_121974332

of course they won’t - the ones who have to agree already have jobs and will hold out in their own self-interest. A bit like the “new entrant” public service pay rates or, for those old enough to remember, AIB’s yellow packs. Union solidarity only means so much.

Astral Nav

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975189#Comment_121975189

The current pay offering is not in any AL pilot's interest and is effectively a paycut after inflation.

notuslimited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974332#Comment_121974332

I’m not at all up to speed what the pilots are looking for and what is on offer but I was interested in your comment that the pilots are rightfully not backing down. Why are they right in this instance?

steve-o

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975124#Comment_121975124

https://discovery.aerlingus.com/

kevinandrew

The airline has claimed IALPA is seeking a 27% increase over 3 years; this includes a 23.88% pay increase and the costs the airline has calculated of a flexibility agreement reached with pilots in 2019 regarding summer leave.

The airline offered 12.25% in January via an internal tribunal, in line with other staff agreements but this was reduced to 8.5% to cover the flexibility agreement costs from 2019. This was rejected by pilots.

The gap between both parties is considerable. The union claims the 23.88% increase covers the cost of living rise and the fact pilots haven’t received a pay rise since 2019. The airline says this isn’t sustainable and risks their competitiveness.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/02/21/aer-lingus-pilot-pay-row-heading-for-labour-court/

sherology

How is the cabin refurb progressing in Bordeaux on EIK?

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975676#Comment_121975676

I'm not involved, but that seems an insane payrise. No company or group has gotten an inflation or cost of living payrise, its just not realistic. Public sector didn't - twice now, for instance. I don't think the pilots will win this one.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979306#Comment_121979306

The 27% demand is certainly attention grabbing.

However other staff groups in Aer Lingus have received 12% very recently. (I think the engineers got a lot more?)
BA and Iberia pilots each received larger increases over the last 18 months.

Jack1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978488#Comment_121978488

Back the 12th (planned)

…

On the EI Pilot pay proposal just my 2 cents, I've yet to know an employee group that goes in low and comes away happy.

EI certainly needs to make an improved offer for it to be considered by IALPA to put to its members. EI have the lower hand at play here.

EI last summer thought by allowing the IT publish the COO letter to the Pilot body (EI have form in negotiating with employee groups through the media over many years and its disgraceful) with essentially the message being, ''our pilots won't volunteer their time off to support our under crewing of the operation aren't they terrible with all the money they are on…''

The public commentary was very much on the side of pilots, how on earth an organisation thinks that's effective messaging in the public sphere is beyond me frankly. EI have not helped themselves since, I personally take the IAG messaging (holding off investment) as directed toward EI mgmt.

People suffered terribly during Covid in aviation, without for example Profit sharing (e.g. Delta) you are not going to get buy-in from employees to an essential threat to halt investment - That is ultimately a Mgmt decision in that instance, the employees see indifference. Threats to halt Cadets, Promotions etc are just the usual EI bully tactics, 320 fleet is Commander short as it stands.

I read commentary about is this really the same Mgmt as pre-Covid, visual heads have indeed changed - EI hasn't. Employee groups are extremely mobile, especially in an era where pay is on the rise and available applicants (Quality) is reduced.

Switching topics again, an area I find particularly fascinating from EI as they take on the extra manpower it needs for Ground Ops to cater for IAG carriers from June, is cabin appearance - You'll have EI staff ensuring a BA 320 departs from Gate 410 to Heathrow clean, from Gate 409 an EI 320 on the same route departs filthy. It's this sort of penny pinching bull*hit (amongst others) that needs to be called out.

donkey balls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953808#Comment_121953808

It is an English thing seen it happen in companies that i worked for, Total disregard for Irish law and labour practices they have this saying.

This is how we operate in the mainland been to the LRC twice while employed by Irish subsidiary of UK companies thinking they can do what they want.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980118#Comment_121980118

Mainland?

shamrocka330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980273#Comment_121980273

The poster was, I think, talking about English companies, with Irish operations/subsidiaries, and how they like to refer to how things operate, from a HR point of view, in the “mainland”. Happens all the time, pure arrogance/ignorance.

Noxegon

I've said this before, but it bears repeating – I'm quite sure they'll follow the law, but I am equally sure they've less than zero interest in existing "practices".

donkey balls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980273#Comment_121980273

Anyone from England calls it the mainland in jobs that i worked in, We had people over from England always saying the mainland and we would reply Europe you mean.

shamrocka330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980968#Comment_121980968

Exact same experience with me! 😂

NH2013

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979306#Comment_121979306

I was talking to a cousin in the public service last weekend who mentioned their pay recent deal, 10.25% between now and 2026, but that’s on top of 12% between 2020 and 2023, so the public service have actually gotten 22.25% since 2019 which seems to align with what the pilots are asking for, I couldn’t believe it when I heard the figure (not that I begrudge the public service, many areas are understaffed and the cost of living in Dublin certainly warrants a 22% increase), but would make sense that an ex semi-state would be looking for the public service pay deal.

As to whether this Mexican standoff will result in the XLRs being cancelled, it would be very disappointing. Shame to miss out on potential new routes and expansion from Dublin over petty threats and high demands.

Noxegon

Apropos of nothing, the passenger cap as it stands may make it challenging for them to operate more aircraft from DUB anyway. Even one turn around a day is still >100,000 passengers a year.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982783#Comment_121982783

I think referring to it as "ex-semi state" is a bit out of date. It was privatised in 2006 I think.
A small percentage of the staff still there will remember the semi-state days.
EI have gone through 3-4 rounds of redundancies in the last 18 years.