Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

amadangomor

amadangomor wrote: »

This thread is an eye opener. Truest words spoken were the ones about opinions and arseholes.

We really are priviligaged to have the opinions of so may wise people here who have so much more of an insight into a deadly virus than the list of members of NPHET.

Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Prof Colm Bergin, infectious diseases consultant at St James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

Paul Bolger, director of Department of Health resources division.

Dr Eibhlin Connolly, deputy chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Tracey Conroy, assistant secretary in the acute hospitals division of the Department of Health.

Dr John Cuddihy, interim director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC).

Dr Cillian de Gascun, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD.

Colm Desmond, assistant secretary for corporate legislation, mental health, drugs policy and food safety division in the Department of Health.


Dr Lorraine Doherty, national clinical director for health protection in the HPSC.

Dr Mary Favier, president of the Irish College of General Practitioners.


Dr Ronan Glynn, deputy chief medical officer in the Department of Health.

Fergal Goodman, assistant secretary in the primary care division in the Department of Health.

Dr Colm Henry, HSE chief clinical officer.

Dr Kevin Kelleher, HSE assistant national director of public health.

Marita Kinsella, director of the national patient safety office in the Department of Health.

David Leach, HSE deputy national director of communications.

Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan, assistant secretary in Department of Health social care division.

Dr Jeanette McCallion, Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) medical assessor.

Tom McGuinness, assistant national director at HSE office of emergency planning.

Dr Siobhán Ní Bhrian, HSE lead for integrated care.

Prof Philip Nolan, chair of Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group and president of Maynooth University.

Kate O’Flaherty, head of health and wellbeing at Department of Health.

Dr Darina O’Flanagan, special adviser to NPHET at Department of Health.

Dr Siobhán O’Sullivan, chief bioethics officer at Department of Health.

Dr Michael Power, national clinical lead of HSE critical care programme and consultant in intensive care medicine at Beaumont Hospital.

Phelim Quinn, chief executive of Health Information and Quality Authority (Hiqa).

Dr Máirín Ryan, deputy chief executive and director of health technology assessment at Hiqa.

Dr Alan Smith, Department of Health deputy chief medical officer.

Dr Breda Smyth, HSE director of health and public health medicine.

David Walsh, HSE national director of community operations.

Deirdre Watters, head of communications at Department of Health.

Liam Woods, HSE national director of acute operations.

Lorraine Doherty, HPSC clinical director for health protection.

Cervical Check scandal says hello.

How many times have scandals come out over the years involving politicians, the Garda, HSE etc.

They’d really love it if everybody was like you and didn’t question a thing.

titan18

JRant wrote: »

They all have one thing in common. Not a single person on that list was elected to lead or be part of government. You know, those people that are actually supposed to be running the country.

Where are the minutes from every single meeting they've had?
Why did they stop publishing minutes?
How do we know the rationale behind life changing decisions this group have made?
What will be the consequences for any of them when the economy is in the toilet for a decade?
Why are our elected representatives following them blindly?
Who was responsible for the nursing home fiasco?

These are all questions that we will never have answers for but we absolutely should.

Do you actually think we should elect health officials? We've people in our country who elect Healy Rae's, Lowry etc and you want those same people to elect health officials?

As for nursing homes, they'd be villified if they said it publicly but it's clear to me that we had a lack of PPE equipment, we had a lack of staff and those finite resources we had were diverted to hospitals as there's a better chance of survival for those patients. We didn't have enough resources to cater for everyone so hard decisions had to be made.

fr336

Deleted User wrote: »

If opticians are open why aren’t hairdressers ?

I was going to answer this but thought nah can't be bothered.

Hector Savage

amadangomor wrote: »

This thread is an eye opener. Truest words spoken were the ones about opinions and arseholes.

We really are priviligaged to have the opinions of so may wise people here who have so much more of an insight into a deadly virus than the list of members of NPHET.

Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Prof Colm Bergin, infectious diseases consultant at St James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

Paul Bolger, director of Department of Health resources division.

Dr Eibhlin Connolly, deputy chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Tracey Conroy, assistant secretary in the acute hospitals division of the Department of Health.

Dr John Cuddihy, interim director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC).

Dr Cillian de Gascun, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD.

Colm Desmond, assistant secretary for corporate legislation, mental health, drugs policy and food safety division in the Department of Health.


Dr Lorraine Doherty, national clinical director for health protection in the HPSC.

Dr Mary Favier, president of the Irish College of General Practitioners.


Dr Ronan Glynn, deputy chief medical officer in the Department of Health.

Fergal Goodman, assistant secretary in the primary care division in the Department of Health.

Dr Colm Henry, HSE chief clinical officer.

Dr Kevin Kelleher, HSE assistant national director of public health.

Marita Kinsella, director of the national patient safety office in the Department of Health.

David Leach, HSE deputy national director of communications.

Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan, assistant secretary in Department of Health social care division.

Dr Jeanette McCallion, Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) medical assessor.

Tom McGuinness, assistant national director at HSE office of emergency planning.

Dr Siobhán Ní Bhrian, HSE lead for integrated care.

Prof Philip Nolan, chair of Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group and president of Maynooth University.

Kate O’Flaherty, head of health and wellbeing at Department of Health.

Dr Darina O’Flanagan, special adviser to NPHET at Department of Health.

Dr Siobhán O’Sullivan, chief bioethics officer at Department of Health.

Dr Michael Power, national clinical lead of HSE critical care programme and consultant in intensive care medicine at Beaumont Hospital.

Phelim Quinn, chief executive of Health Information and Quality Authority (Hiqa).

Dr Máirín Ryan, deputy chief executive and director of health technology assessment at Hiqa.

Dr Alan Smith, Department of Health deputy chief medical officer.

Dr Breda Smyth, HSE director of health and public health medicine.

David Walsh, HSE national director of community operations.

Deirdre Watters, head of communications at Department of Health.

Liam Woods, HSE national director of acute operations.

Lorraine Doherty, HPSC clinical director for health protection.

Yeah OK Karen ....

Cork Boy 53

magic17 wrote: »

Hopefully the government does the right thing and skips straight to phase 3 on the 8th June and we can finally start to move out of this farcical situation we're in at the moment

Won`t be happening. Simple as that.

SusieBlue

fr336 wrote: »

I was going to answer this but thought nah can't be bothered.

I’ll say it again for people in the back. Services that were deemed to be non essential on March 15th are now badly needed and will be in even higher demand by the 20th of July.

Yes, a lot of services provided by hairdressers are for cosmetic purposes but they also fit and style wigs for cancer patients and those suffering with alopecia and there is also the issue of hair extensions.
Bonded extensions are extremely common & popular in Ireland, they’re supposed to be left in for 5 months max.
Most women don’t even get the 5 months out of them.
Anyone who was due to have theirs out in March will now have to wait till July, an extra 4 months.
Most people get their hair done in December for Xmas which means a lot of women need theirs out now.
Leaving them in too long can cause bald patches, matting, sores & scabs on the head and hair loss.
It is a professional service that can only usually be done by hair dressers.
And again, maybe not an urgent issue right now but it will be extremely urgent by the end of July.

My own hairdresser is fully booked for 12 weeks from the 20th of July onwards and is already operating a waiting list.
This shows and proves that if you take away the service, the demand doesn’t go anywhere, it just grows and grows meaning when hairdressers do reopen they’ll be as busy as they can legally get away with.

Opening hairdressers now would ease the pressure a bit in that regard, they can start working their way through the demand now rather than keeping them shut for another 8 weeks.
Most in the industry have introduced new procedures and policies for social distancing by now, they’re ready to go and should be given a chance to see if they can operate under the new guidelines rather than unnecessarily keeping them on the covid payment for another two months. It makes no sense at all.

Jinglejangle69

SusieBlue wrote: »

I’ll say it again for people in the back. Services that were deemed to be non essential on March 15th are now badly needed and will be in even higher demand by the 20th of July.

Yes, a lot of services provided by hairdressers are for cosmetic purposes but they also fit and style wigs for cancer patients and those suffering with alopecia and there is also the issue of hair extensions.
Bonded extensions are extremely common & popular in Ireland, they’re supposed to be left in for 5 months max.
Most women don’t even get the 5 months out of them.
Anyone who was due to have theirs out in March will now have to wait till July, an extra 4 months.
Most people get their hair done in December for Xmas which means a lot of women need theirs out now.
Leaving them in too long can cause bald patches, matting, sores & scabs on the head and hair loss.
It is a professional service that can only usually be done by hair dressers.
And again, maybe not an urgent issue right now but it will be extremely urgent by the end of July.

My own hairdresser is fully booked for 12 weeks from the 20th of July onwards and is already operating a waiting list.
This shows and proves that if you take away the service, the demand doesn’t go anywhere, it just grows and grows meaning when hairdressers do reopen they’ll be as busy as they can legally get away with.

Opening hairdressers now would ease the pressure a bit in that regard, they can start working their way through the demand now rather than keeping them shut for another 8 weeks.
Most in the industry have introduced new procedures and policies for social distancing by now, they’re ready to go and should be given a chance to see if they can operate under the new guidelines rather than unnecessarily keeping them on the covid payment for another two months. It makes no sense at all.

You're definitely not a hair dresser so?

SusieBlue

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You're definitely not a hair dresser so?

No, I already posted the industry I work in earlier in the thread.
I’m just a blonde whose roots are down to her ears and whose bonded extensions are hanging on by a thread :pac:
I still think hairdressers should be allowed reopen in the next phase, though.

vid36

I think hairdressers should in June, but with mandatory masks for both customer and stylist . However, as we continue to give mixed signals on masks, it will be in July.

SusieBlue

vid36 wrote: »

I think hairdressers should in June, but with mandatory masks for both customer and stylist . However, as we continue to give mixed signals on masks, it will be in July.

I think this would be a fair compromise and would have no problem wearing a mask for this, or any other beauty appointments where you can’t really socially distance either.

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

HSE Operations report just released and it's all good news.

As of 18:30 there were 45 confirmed covid cases in ICU, down from 48 yesterday and no ICU deaths recorded between 10am yesteday and 10am today. 30 on ventilators down from 32.

As of 8pm there were 193 confirmed cases in acute hospitals down from 233, a drop of 40 in 24hrs.

8 cases diagnosed in hosptial settings in the last 24hrs.

Very positive numbers

Hopefully they can keep declining

Tony was a little bit worried on Wednesday

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/holohan-little-bit-worried-about-rise-in-icu-admissions-1002094.html

titan18

I'm pro lockdown, or at least following the stated rules as they are, but ya, I'd agree, I'd move hairdressers to phase 3 myself at the least.

On masks though, I can understand it for.women with longer hair but not really sure how as a male it'll work since cutting around the ears, or having to use a razer blade in that area.

KrustyUCC

vid36 wrote: »

I think hairdressers should in June, but with mandatory masks for both customer and stylist . However, as we continue to give mixed signals on masks, it will be in July.

Exactly what happens in other countries

It really is mad to think other countries had hairdressers amongst first to open and they might be open three months before ours do on July 20th

dubdaymo

amadangomor wrote: »

This thread is an eye opener. Truest words spoken were the ones about opinions and arseholes.

We really are priviligaged to have the opinions of so may wise people here who have so much more of an insight into a deadly virus than the list of members of NPHET.

Thanks for posting the full list of "experts". If, as you infer, these people had better insight into a deadly virus they would have stopped travel to/from virus-ravaged N. Italy, stopped 2,500 Italians coming to Dublin for a weekend partying, clubbing and booze-up for a non-existent rugby match and then also stopped thousands of Irish going to Cheltenham to bring even more virus back here. Not to mention the nursing home fiasco.

They had one vital ingredient missing - common sense. They made all the wrong decisions then so what makes you believe they are not doing the same all over again?

stephenjmcd

In tomorrow mornings Irish times. Safe to say it didn't last too long so, although it's not mandatory they've quite clearly been told to get rid of it already. CMO being over ruled on the travel stance.

"The two-week quarantine period for people arriving into the State from abroad will be lifted for those coming from countries where the coronavirus has been controlled, under plans being considered by the Government."

Deeper Blue

46 new cases and there's still a question as to whether we'll move to phase 2?

Jesus wept

JPCN1

fr336 wrote: »

It's like kids waiting for Christmas this is. Is not dying not a good enough reason to WAIT? Enjoy the rest of 2020. There will be more sunny days. There will be more bank holidays. I shudder to think how the west would do in a war these days.

Not great I'd wager, if their young spend a year behind the couch for Covid.

Their grandparents now...

Jayesdiem

amadangomor wrote: »

This thread is an eye opener. Truest words spoken were the ones about opinions and arseholes.

We really are priviligaged to have the opinions of so may wise people here who have so much more of an insight into a deadly virus than the list of members of NPHET.

Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Prof Colm Bergin, infectious diseases consultant at St James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

Paul Bolger, director of Department of Health resources division.

Dr Eibhlin Connolly, deputy chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Tracey Conroy, assistant secretary in the acute hospitals division of the Department of Health.

Dr John Cuddihy, interim director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC).

Dr Cillian de Gascun, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD.

Colm Desmond, assistant secretary for corporate legislation, mental health, drugs policy and food safety division in the Department of Health.


Dr Lorraine Doherty, national clinical director for health protection in the HPSC.

Dr Mary Favier, president of the Irish College of General Practitioners.


Dr Ronan Glynn, deputy chief medical officer in the Department of Health.

Fergal Goodman, assistant secretary in the primary care division in the Department of Health.

Dr Colm Henry, HSE chief clinical officer.

Dr Kevin Kelleher, HSE assistant national director of public health.

Marita Kinsella, director of the national patient safety office in the Department of Health.

David Leach, HSE deputy national director of communications.

Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan, assistant secretary in Department of Health social care division.

Dr Jeanette McCallion, Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) medical assessor.

Tom McGuinness, assistant national director at HSE office of emergency planning.

Dr Siobhán Ní Bhrian, HSE lead for integrated care.

Prof Philip Nolan, chair of Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group and president of Maynooth University.

Kate O’Flaherty, head of health and wellbeing at Department of Health.

Dr Darina O’Flanagan, special adviser to NPHET at Department of Health.

Dr Siobhán O’Sullivan, chief bioethics officer at Department of Health.

Dr Michael Power, national clinical lead of HSE critical care programme and consultant in intensive care medicine at Beaumont Hospital.

Phelim Quinn, chief executive of Health Information and Quality Authority (Hiqa).

Dr Máirín Ryan, deputy chief executive and director of health technology assessment at Hiqa.

Dr Alan Smith, Department of Health deputy chief medical officer.

Dr Breda Smyth, HSE director of health and public health medicine.

David Walsh, HSE national director of community operations.

Deirdre Watters, head of communications at Department of Health.

Liam Woods, HSE national director of acute operations.

Lorraine Doherty, HPSC clinical director for health protection.

Your post lives up to your username. You are completely misrepresenting (or just misunderstanding) the message people are sending on here. There’s nobody claiming to be experts here or calling into question the medical credentials of the people on that list. Not one person is saying “I know more than that lot”. What they ARE saying is this: “given that our European neighbours have access to similarly wise medical experts, and given that we have suppressed the virus to a good extent, why have our European neighbours responded by lifting the imposed restrictions and we have not”? You see nobody is claiming to have factual knowledge, they are merely making a valid comparison with similar countries to ourselves and coming to the very logical conclusion that Ireland’s recovery is being severely impeded for no discernible reason. Nuance is in short supply for you.

Penfailed

Micky 32 wrote: »

I wonder how many likes that post will get, it won’t be from the lockdown merchants anyway

Are you for real? You think people want more death? To what end?

Penfailed

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yeah OK Karen ....

That's twice I've seen this Karen thing now in the last couple of pages. The first was directed at me. Does anyone want to explain?

Penfailed

NDWC wrote: »

46 new cases and there's still a question as to whether we'll move to phase 2?

Jesus wept

Is there? Usually the people most vocal on here about the pace of the phasing are the same people who reckon the phasing won't happen at that pace.

the kelt

Penfailed wrote: »

Is there? Usually the people most vocal on here about the pace of the phasing are the same people who reckon the phasing won't happen at that pace.

Isn’t there?

Have we met the numbers and criteria to move to phase 2?

Roger_007

I wonder how many members of the NPHET group have, or will have, to suffer personally the economic consequences of lockdown and the inevitable recession it will cause. Will any of them lose their lose their jobs or suffer any loss of income?
It’s easy for them to recommend the maintaining of restrictions for the longest possible time when none of them will be adversely affected, even if the economy of the country is in ruins.

Birdie Num Num

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Your post lives up to your username. You are completely misrepresenting (or just misunderstanding) the message people are sending on here. There’s nobody claiming to be experts here or calling into question the medical credentials of the people on that list. Not one person is saying “I know more than that lot”. What they ARE saying is this: “given that our European neighbours have access to similarly wise medical experts, and given that we have suppressed the virus to a good extent, why have our European neighbours responded by lifting the imposed restrictions and we have not”? You see nobody is claiming to have factual knowledge, they are merely making a valid comparison with similar countries to ourselves and coming to the very logical conclusion that Ireland’s recovery is being severely impeded for no discernible reason. Nuance is in short supply for you.

Not sure how much you have followed this thread but even if you haven’t, you don’t have to look too closely or too far back to see it is full of ‘expert’ opinions. Plenty of medical opinions on a virus that no one heard of less than a year ago and the subsequent actions taken.

JRant

titan18 wrote: »

Do you actually think we should elect health officials? We've people in our country who elect Healy Rae's, Lowry etc and you want those same people to elect health officials?

As for nursing homes, they'd be villified if they said it publicly but it's clear to me that we had a lack of PPE equipment, we had a lack of staff and those finite resources we had were diverted to hospitals as there's a better chance of survival for those patients. We didn't have enough resources to cater for everyone so hard decisions had to be made.

It's nothing to be with electing health officials and everything to do with our government handing over complete control to them.

On your second point, we should already know why the decision was made. We should have detailed minutes and notes for all decisions made up to today. The decisions made should be on the public record. However, this being Ireland and with FG ministers thinking minutes and notes are an optional extra it doesn't surprise me.

is_that_so

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Not sure how much you have followed this thread but even you haven’t, you don’t have to look too closely or too far back to see it is full of ‘expert’ opinions. Plenty of medical opinions on a virus that no one heard of less than a year ago and the subsequent actions taken.

Yes, we've all been home-schooled by Google, some not very well. Judgement on what transpired is really a long way off. A lot of what has been said is built around personal frustration, understandable given the likely length of this. Whether you want it to stay until summer's end or to wind it up now somebody must be to blame.

JRant

Roger_007 wrote: »

I wonder how many members of the NPHET group have, or will have, to suffer personally the economic consequences of lockdown and the inevitable recession it will cause. Will any of them lose their lose their jobs or suffer any loss of income?
It’s easy for them to recommend the maintaining of restrictions for the longest possible time when none of them will be adversely affected, even if the economy of the country is in ruins.

Looking at the list you can probably answer that question without putting to much thought into it. They all seem to suckling on the governments teat.

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

Do you actually think we should elect health officials? We've people in our country who elect Healy Rae's, Lowry etc and you want those same people to elect health officials?

As for nursing homes, they'd be villified if they said it publicly but it's clear to me that we had a lack of PPE equipment, we had a lack of staff and those finite resources we had were diverted to hospitals as there's a better chance of survival for those patients. We didn't have enough resources to cater for everyone so hard decisions had to be made.

PPE is not the only part of infection control. Some of them have proved lacking in basics. I also think they've been quick off the mark to look for someone to blame. Putting the house completely in order so to say must be an end outcome of this.

is_that_so

JRant wrote: »

Looking at the list you can probably answer that question without putting to much thought into it. They all seem to suckling on the governments teat.

So who would you have on it?

the kelt

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Not sure how much you have followed this thread but even you haven’t, you don’t have to look too closely or too far back to see it is full of ‘expert’ opinions. Plenty of medical opinions on a virus that no one heard of less than a year ago and the subsequent actions taken.

Well not really,

Sure you get the odd nut but the majority is based on alternative opinions from experts in the field and the longer and longer it goes on the more and more expert opinion comes out that counteracts much of the main opinion our own experts are working off. Most people are quoting other medical opinions, not their own.

We are learning more and more as we go along, a case in point being the children being super spreaders of the virus for example which seems now isn’t the case, the fact that a loss of taste and smell is now a symptom but was t recognised as one up until this week.

But mostly people are looking at the rest of Europe, all with their own experts in the field and medical people inputting into their decisions and deciding they can open up far far quicker than ourselves for some unknown reason I’ve yet to hear a reason for other than “let’s wait and see how everyone else gets on” which isn’t actually a reason, it’s a pathetic excuse to not make a decision.

Maybe the HSE have better experts than it seems the entire medical experts made up of the rest of Europe?