Off Topic Thread 5.0

Squidgy Black

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There’s always been people like that. Over years people develop the social skills to distract from that in an office environment. That’s been taken away now. I’d say some companies are absolutely seeing major problems with that. I’ve a small enough team and it’s not an issue for us but we’re all well versed in remote work over the years.

Anyone who does look to shift their performance management should look to take the lead of companies who’ve been doing this for years with remote employees. Knowing many Irish companies, there’ll be some disasters where companies try to reinvent the wheel!

There’s going to be a MASSIVE disruption in Dublin in the next few years. First jobs that were acceptable in an office environment will suddenly seem awful remotely, and people will look to move on there. Next there’ll be people who are being let go rightly or wrongly in the new remote work climate. Then you’ve got the fact commercial real estate is going to be absolutely insane with people trying to break leases now a big portion of their staff want to work remotely. Then you’ll have downstream effects of that on businesses across Ireland. Then what happens to the real estate market if you don’t have to live in Dublin for work? Then what happens to wages if 50% of candidates can live in Sligo or Donegal? What happens to Dublin culture if everyone living in Dublin is suddenly from Dublin (and therefore completely uncultured)? Will they turn the Abbey theatre into a bowling hall/quazar for the Dubs? And so on and so forth...

The tech scene is going to change massively. A few of the places I've worked with over the past couple of years used to be made up of 50-60% employees who were brought over to Ireland on visas from the likes of Brazil, India and a lot of continental Europe (mostly Portugal and Poland) because there isn't a massive pool of Irish candidates in the Microsoft ecosystem. And it's a similar story for other technologies (particularly in the consulting space), so with no office to go to or no real requirement to be on-site you would imagine there'd be a shift towards remote hires and no real need to bring these lads over on visas. Which then has a knock-on effect to the housing market as you no longer have foreign employees for the big tech companies looking to rent in the likes of the IFSC or Grand Canal Docks. And if you're moving towards a remote workforce and hiring employees living abroad, there's no need to pay Irish employees inflated wages, or one better why not just outsource? (I know this is always a terrible decision in reality but C-Levels love the thought).

stephen_n

swiwi_ wrote: »

I ban you from using acronoyms !

Today I learned that TIL means today I learned.

And I thought it meant total idiot loser, was assuming it was a Trumpism.

Neil3030

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The tech scene is going to change massively. A few of the places I've worked with over the past couple of years used to be made up of 50-60% employees who were brought over to Ireland on visas from the likes of Brazil, India and a lot of continental Europe (mostly Portugal and Poland) because there isn't a massive pool of Irish candidates in the Microsoft ecosystem. And it's a similar story for other technologies (particularly in the consulting space), so with no office to go to or no real requirement to be on-site you would imagine there'd be a shift towards remote hires and no real need to bring these lads over on visas. Which then has a knock-on effect to the housing market as you no longer have foreign employees for the big tech companies looking to rent in the likes of the IFSC or Grand Canal Docks. And if you're moving towards a remote workforce and hiring employees living abroad, there's no need to pay Irish employees inflated wages, or one better why not just outsource? (I know this is always a terrible decision in reality but C-Levels love the thought).

Tax, at both the corporate and employee level, will have a big influence on all of this.

E.g., can your business still claim tax residence in Ireland if your workforce / operations are all in Brazil?

Stheno

Neil3030 wrote: »

Tax, at both the corporate and employee level, will have a big influence on all of this.

E.g., can your business still claim tax residence in Ireland if your workforce / operations are all in Brazil?

Yep I'd agree with that

The amount of money some companies I know of that they saved in tax relocating to Ireland is staggering

mfceiling

I've been told we start back to work on Wednesday. On Tuesday I've to do an online course to be a "covid compliance officer".

I can see it being a nightmare because our work (interior fitouts) are work that is carried out in close contact with others...electrical, plumbing, drywall, plastering, aircon etc all work together and I don't think any job will be able to be completed without work taking place in close proximity.

One site is asking us to wear boiler suits, goggles, masks, full face shields as well as our regular PPE. We're going to look like extras from Chernobyl.

Stheno

mfceiling wrote: »

I've been told we start back to work on Wednesday. On Tuesday I've to do an online course to be a "covid compliance officer".

I can see it being a nightmare because our work (interior fitouts) are work that is carried out in close contact with others...electrical, plumbing, drywall, plastering, aircon etc all work together and I don't think any job will be able to be completed without work taking place in close proximity.

One site is asking us to wear boiler suits, goggles, masks, full face shields as well as our regular PPE. We're going to look like extras from Chernobyl.

Ye might look better than normal so? No builders arses on display? :pac:

stephen_n

mfceiling wrote: »

I've been told we start back to work on Wednesday. On Tuesday I've to do an online course to be a "covid compliance officer".

I can see it being a nightmare because our work (interior fitouts) are work that is carried out in close contact with others...electrical, plumbing, drywall, plastering, aircon etc all work together and I don't think any job will be able to be completed without work taking place in close proximity.

One site is asking us to wear boiler suits, goggles, masks, full face shields as well as our regular PPE. We're going to look like extras from Chernobyl.

You might feel like them too when it starts to get warmer.

Buer

Stheno wrote: »

Ye might look better than normal so? No builders arises on display? :pac:

I'd imagine there has been many awkward moments from mfceiling displaying his arisen in work.

Stheno

Buer wrote: »

I'd imagine there has been many awkward moments from mfceiling displaying his arisen in work.

Damn autocorrect

Stheno

stephen_n wrote: »

You might feel like them too when it starts to get warmer.

They could just have their jocks on under the boilersuits?

stephen_n

Stheno wrote: »

They could just have their jocks on under the boilersuits?

Not a mental image I need before my dinner, thanks.

Neil3030

Stheno wrote: »

Yep I'd agree with that

The amount of money some companies I know of that they saved in tax relocating to Ireland is staggering

Protectionism is a beautiful thing.

Neil3030

But I could totally see Dublin property prices falling, if even a small to moderate chunk of people can transition to wfh somewhere else in Ireland with reasonable levels of preserved efficiency.

No more leaving the house at the crack of dawn and commuting for 9 years from your apartment in Ongar to your ****ty warehouse-turned-office-space in Carrickmines.

Stheno

Neil3030 wrote: »

But I could totally see Dublin property prices falling, if even a small to moderate chunk of people can transition to wfh somewhere else in Ireland with reasonable levels of preserved efficiency.

No more leaving the house at the crack of dawn and commuting for 9 years from your apartment in Ongar to your ****ty warehouse-turned-office-space in Carrickmines.

Yep

I'm waiting a few months for things to settle down but whereas I was considering buying in Dublin next year, I'll be looking outside of Dublin

irishbucsfan

I wonder will there be a big market for some sort of temporary living arrangements. So someone could come up to Dublin from somewhere further away for two days a week etc. If someone from Tipp needs to be in Dublin one day a week etc. I wonder will there be a shift towards hotels targeting that market

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wonder will there be a big market for some sort of temporary living arrangements. So someone could come up to Dublin from somewhere further away for two days a week etc. If someone from Tipp needs to be in Dublin one day a week etc. I wonder will there be a shift towards hotels targeting that market

Vanagons ftw!

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wonder will there be a big market for some sort of temporary living arrangements. So someone could come up to Dublin from somewhere further away for two days a week etc. If someone from Tipp needs to be in Dublin one day a week etc. I wonder will there be a shift towards hotels targeting that market

Most of them would have to look at upgrading their internet from "there's a 3g dongle in the basement somewhere"

Former Former

Neil3030 wrote: »

But I could totally see Dublin property prices falling, if even a small to moderate chunk of people can transition to wfh somewhere else in Ireland with reasonable levels of preserved efficiency.

No more leaving the house at the crack of dawn and commuting for 9 years from your apartment in Ongar to your ****ty warehouse-turned-office-space in Carrickmines.

Won't this push up property prices elsewhere?

When all us wealthy dubs descend on the benighted provinces complaining we can't get avocados in the co-op and Supermacs don't have soy lattes?

Dystopian nightmare.

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

Won't this push up property prices elsewhere?

When all us wealthy dubs descend on the benighted provinces complaining we can't get avocados in the co-op and Supermacs don't have soy lattes?

Dystopian nightmare.

Could you honestly imagine stepping foot in a supermacs though FF, surely it'd only be possible for us to move to somewhere with at least two Avocas and ten different spots to get a flat deecer.

sydthebeat

Just watched a cracking game of darts between the power and fallon sherrock on paddy powers FB.

fallon threw 120 average and still lost!

It went to the last round where Phil threw first and had to check out 167 to win.

edit: fallon averaged 121 to Taylors 116

Damn I miss sport!!!!

Neil3030

Former Former wrote: »

Won't this push up property prices elsewhere?

When all us wealthy dubs descend on the benighted provinces complaining we can't get avocados in the co-op and Supermacs don't have soy lattes?

Dystopian nightmare.

Presumably, but property prices are so outrageously skewed in Ireland a bit of rebalancing can't hurt. And we cultured Dubs bring our wants of decadence to these hovels, and what ho!, immediately the locals have this thing called "commerce". Everyone wins.

awec

mfceiling wrote: »

I've been told we start back to work on Wednesday. On Tuesday I've to do an online course to be a "covid compliance officer".

I can see it being a nightmare because our work (interior fitouts) are work that is carried out in close contact with others...electrical, plumbing, drywall, plastering, aircon etc all work together and I don't think any job will be able to be completed without work taking place in close proximity.

One site is asking us to wear boiler suits, goggles, masks, full face shields as well as our regular PPE. We're going to look like extras from Chernobyl.

What good is a boiler suit going to do?

mfceiling

awec wrote: »

What good is a boiler suit going to do?

Exactly.

I'll be honest I'm not a great man for PPE at the best of times.

Might be time for a change shortly.

awec

mfceiling wrote: »

Exactly.

I'll be honest I'm not a great man for PPE at the best of times.

Might be time for a change shortly.

Think I'd only wear a mask tbh. Probably not a bad idea for some trades in general with the crap they're inhaling all day.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

What I've noticed is that it's very easy to identify who is capable of working from home and who isn't and I don't mean that from technical limitations/infrastructure.

Some people just cannot reliably work at home. Some can. But I find it's very easy to see who is coasting at the moment and I'd put good money they have Netflix on for 5 hours of the day. I know in my team that I can rely on 2 or 3 people to work from home and the others simply cannot deliver on it and will end up on a PIP if they do so.

All in all, I think there will be some sort of change and additional flexibility but a process for personal accountability and performance monitoring will need to be developed in conjunction with it.

I thought I would be one of those people, especially with the kids at home and my wife also WFH, but to be honest I've surprised myself how well we've settled into a routine and how much work I'm getting through. It helps to have a good team collaborating on different jobs, and frequent emails and the odd zoom to keep in touch with how we're getting on and asking for help or feedback. I'd happily WFH 2-3 days a week when or if this is all over. As it is i'll be WFH for the rest of the year (although looking forward to getting out on fieldwork shortly) and herself will be on maternity leave after July so it will be a long time before either of us are back in an office.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Not sure "weaker links" is an entirely fair way to characterise them. If you have been hired to work in an office environment and have done that all your experience and your skills are based around that, then the sudden shift is going to cause problems.

It's been a huge shift for many people, and childcare is a huge issue. It's hard to expect people to be productive when they're trying to mind kids, or home school, at the same time. Many people are very stressed also. The current position is not a normal WFH situation and it's probably unfair to judge people on their ability to WFH in these circumstances.

prawnsambo

Zzippy wrote: »

It's been a huge shift for many people, and childcare is a huge issue. It's hard to expect people to be productive when they're trying to mind kids, or home school, at the same time. Many people are very stressed also. The current position is not a normal WFH situation and it's probably unfair to judge people on their ability to WFH in these circumstances.

Brian Moore has been tweeting about this issue lately. People are experiencing a kind of constant low level of stress and it's affecting their sleep patterns. He was tweeting that he's having trouble sleeping (awake at 3am sometimes) and when he does sleep, having very vivid dreams that he's able to recall in part. A sleep therapist replied to him and said that he's overrun by calls from people experiencing the very same thing.

Yeah_Right

mfceiling wrote: »

We're going to look like extras from Chernobyl.

Hopefully not the extras that played the miners in that show. That's a sight no one wants to see

DGRulz

Is anyone else being bombarded with surveys from their management about how you're coping WFH? I swear I've had at least 3 or 4 from my facilities people and had to fill out an 8 page one from HR the other day that had many of the same questions I've already answered on previous surveys.

irishbucsfan

DGRulz wrote: »

Is anyone else being bombarded with surveys from their management about how you're coping WFH? I swear I've had at least 3 or 4 from my facilities people and had to fill out an 8 page one from HR the other day that had many of the same questions I've already answered on previous surveys.

Just one that was more about trying to feel out how many people will intend to continue doing it long term

Stheno

DGRulz wrote: »

Is anyone else being bombarded with surveys from their management about how you're coping WFH? I swear I've had at least 3 or 4 from my facilities people and had to fill out an 8 page one from HR the other day that had many of the same questions I've already answered on previous surveys.

Thankfully not.

Though we do have regular update calls for the entire office