Green Party wish list.

SomeGuyCalledMi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

people en masse are not moving away from meat and will not. The Irish beef and lamb industry will be just as important to our nation when I'm on my pension as it is now.

going vegetarian / vegan / meat free is a fad for the boom time, it'll recede as the economy goes into recession or as teens and people in their 20's grow up.

I don't think it's a fad. My kids want to eat less meat. I grew up eating it 3 times a day. Now it's once a day if not less.
The canteen where I work they said the vegi option was by far the most popular and nobody wanted beef anymore. Times are changing.

Huntergonzo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

people en masse are not moving away from meat and will not. The Irish beef and lamb industry will be just as important to our nation when I'm on my pension as it is now.

going vegetarian / vegan / meat free is a fad for the boom time, it'll recede as the economy goes into recession or as teens and people in their 20's grow up.

None of us can see 10 or 20 years into the future with 100% certainty but I tend to agree with you, I don't see millions of Irish people abandoning their love of meat in the long term. Although there may be more of a shift towards leaner types of meat (including leaner beef and lamb produce).

But of course these days you will also get your McGregor lookalike hipsters shuffling around looking for burgers made of fúckin kale and quinoa!

Tell me how

jmayo wrote: »

Wicklow is not a proper rural county.
Half the fecking place thinks it is Dublin.
Enniskerry is full of eejits like Craig Doyle that thinks it is Foxrock in the country.
Bray is full of dubs.
Greystones is more akin to Dalkey than any country town.

Carlow/Kilkeeny has two major towns dominating both counties with large Dublin commuter population, both of which have access to reasonable rail network.
Those counties are in no way representative of rural Ireland.

They might not be representative of the patch of grass you call home, but they are as much rural Ireland as the rest of it.

You need to understand that your situation is not the measure by which the entire country is judged.

If your username is anything to do with your location, you probably are aware of a prominent green personality S McHugh. I suppose she isn't representative enough for you either. She isn't a TD, and is someone who needs to move towards understanding working together with everyone in mind, not just a singular view.

Thelonious Monk

SomeGuyCalledMi wrote: »

I don't think it's a fad. My kids want to eat less meat. I grew up eating it 3 times a day. Now it's once a day if not less.
The canteen where I work they said the vegi option was by far the most popular and nobody wanted beef anymore. Times are changing.

I don't think it is either, my mam was a veggie in the 70s, I don't eat beef or lamb and I'm 40 this year so it's not an age thing as such - but Eric is right in that there'll always be a market for us to produce lots of meat for. China don't give a sh*t about animals or the environment and they are the biggest market in the world to sell Irish beef to. And baby powder and the likes.

Fred Cryton

FF + FG + Independents is the way forward for now.

Let's face it a FF+ FG coalition is going to be the norm for the next 50 years, with bigger party getting the Taoiseach. Neither will work with toxic SF. SF are only getting in if they double their seats to around 70. If that happens the electorate will deserve everything it gets.

In 5 years time FF+FG will combined have 80+ seats and can turf the independents out too.

tayto lover

SomeGuyCalledMi wrote: »

I don't think it's a fad. My kids want to eat less meat. I grew up eating it 3 times a day. Now it's once a day if not less.
The canteen where I work they said the vegi option was by far the most popular and nobody wanted beef anymore. Times are changing.

It’s just a fad or a talking point. Some people just love to be noticed. I bet everyone around them in the canteen knows they’re not eating meat. Just like the noisy vegans.
They probably gorge on meat when they go home in the evening.
They suit the feckin Green Party. Space cadets.

Itssoeasy

Tell me how wrote: »

They might not be representative of the patch of grass you call home, but they are as much rural Ireland as the rest of it.

You need to understand that your situation is not the measure by which the entire country is judged.

If your username is anything to do with your location, you probably are aware of a prominent green personality S McHugh. I suppose she isn't representative enough for you either. She isn't a TD, and is someone who needs to move towards understanding working together with everyone in mind, not just a singular view.

Is that not a good thing for people in general to work towards ? We as a society will never all agree on every issue so singular views won't be helpful in politics or just life in general as without compromise we will get nowhere.

I also don't believe that people will stop eating meat full stop but neither will it swing towards vegetarian/vegan. Look I eat meat but I don't eat masses of it, but if somebody want to not eat meat then that's Grand. It's not for me to say they should or shouldn't but neither is someone allowed to say I shouldn't eat meat.

SomeGuyCalledMi

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't think it is either, my mam was a veggie in the 70s, I don't eat beef or lamb and I'm 40 this year so it's not an age thing as such - but Eric is right in that there'll always be a market for us to produce lots of meat for. China don't give a sh*t about animals or the environment and they are the biggest market in the world to sell Irish beef to. And baby powder and the likes.

China are the biggest polluter but also the biggest investor of renewable energy in the world. But you are right, there are very few Chinese vegetarians.

Thelonious Monk

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s just a fad or a talking point. Some people just love to be noticed. I bet everyone around them in the canteen knows they’re not eating meat. Just like the noisy vegans.
They probably gorge on meat when they go home in the evening.
They suit the feckin Green Party. Space cadets.

I've never met a noisy vegan, they are a myth. I doubt you have either.

Thelonious Monk

SomeGuyCalledMi wrote: »

China are the biggest polluter but also the biggest investor of renewable energy in the world. But you are right, there are very few Chinese vegetarians.

Yes that's the thing, if anyone drives a new green world it'll probably be the Chinese, they can get sh*t done with their authoritarian government.

tayto lover

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've never met a noisy vegan, they are a myth. I doubt you have either.

I have indeed and they can’t wait to tell you.

jmayo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I knew it was only a matter of time before jmayo came in and shouted at us all

BAAAAAA ...
You don't like being corrected now do you ?
And we were getting along so well in the old covid threads.

You do have to admit our lack of dense housing (and high number of one offs) is actually helping contain the spread of it.

Tell me how wrote: »

They might not be representative of the patch of grass you call home, but they are as much rural Ireland as the rest of it.

You need to understand that your situation is not the measure by which the entire country is judged.

If your username is anything to do with your location, you probably are aware of a prominent green personality S McHugh. I suppose she isn't representative enough for you either. She isn't a TD, and is someone who needs to move towards understanding working together with everyone in mind, not just a singular view.

Carlow county has around 56,900 people.
The population has grown by 37% since 1996.
Carlow town area accounts for around 39% of that.

Kilkenny county has around 99,000 people.
The population has grown by roughly 32% since 1996.
Kilkenny city area accounts for around 27% of that.
Clare might be considered a bit similar with population of 90,000 and Ennis accounting for 26,000 of it.
But Clare is far more rural I think than kilkenny or Carlow.

By comparison the biggest town in Mayo is Castlebar with about 13,000.
Mayo's population grew by about 18% between 1996 and 2016.
And I do know the population dropped a little between 2011 and 2016 census.

So please remind us again which counties you reckon are part of a commuter belt for major city?

Ehh funny you should mention yer wan McHugh.
AFAIK she actually was ditching a fair few of the Green party ideas when electioneering.
She played a little fast and loose with the party manifesto.

Thelonious Monk

jmayo wrote: »

BAAAAAA ...
You don't like being corrected now do you ?
And we were getting along so well in the old covid threads.

You do have to admit our lack of dense housing (and high number of one offs) is actually helping contain the spread of it.

That's true, but higher density housing is the only way forward for a growing population. I mean if we all decided to move to one offs because of covid it'd be a total disaster. Urban sprawl has Dublin in a mess.

Tell me how

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Is that not a good thing for people in general to work towards ? We as a society will never all agree on every issue so singular views won't be helpful in politics or just life in general as without compromise we will get nowhere.

It is. That's my point, I think Saoirse is too focused on the need for a green consensus. I admire her focus but we will never see progress if we have to wait for everything to be pulling in the same direction.

She is uncomfortable with the idea of the greens supporting FG/FF now because they did that before and couldn't get their initiatives implemented. But, the then should have pulled the plug on their support if the deal was being renaged on.

Shefwedfan

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s just a fad or a talking point. Some people just love to be noticed. I bet everyone around them in the canteen knows they’re not eating meat. Just like the noisy vegans.
They probably gorge on meat when they go home in the evening.
They suit the feckin Green Party. Space cadets.

Tell that to the whole of Europe, we had a number of Aupair and they where all veggie to different levels. Some eat fish and didn’t mind cooking meat, some not so much

It’s not like we picked them, over 90% or more of Aupair in Europe are veggie. Even on the advertisement would state more or less no meat in house, that was a no for us. It did make us less dependant on meat

I think you are getting veggie and vegan mixed up. The vegan will tell the world, the veggie will not, I know a vegan who won’t drink tea at our house becaus the tea bag would have touched plastic....try having a normal conversation with that person

Shefwedfan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't think it is either, my mam was a veggie in the 70s, I don't eat beef or lamb and I'm 40 this year so it's not an age thing as such - but Eric is right in that there'll always be a market for us to produce lots of meat for. China don't give a sh*t about animals or the environment and they are the biggest market in the world to sell Irish beef to. And baby powder and the likes.

The number to look at is CO2 per head count, not the biggest producer of CO2 as they have a few more people to ireland

Blaze420

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That's true, but higher density housing is the only way forward for a growing population. I mean if we all decided to move to one offs because of covid it'd be a total disaster. Urban sprawl has Dublin in a mess.

Dublin is not Ireland.

Roger_007

BarryD2 wrote: »

Mind you, the motor industry just love the Greens! Great for churning the market, incentivising citizens to scrap their otherwise reasonable vehicles and paying through the nose for new models! What's not to like

Petrol to diesel. Diesel to hybrid. Hybrid to EV. EV to bikes!

The Greens sometimes forget where the money comes from to fund all these airy-fairy policies. The motor industry generates huge revenue in excise duties and VAT on fuel, registration charges and VAT on new cars Etc.
At the moment EVs are little more than toys for rich people the purchase of which the government incentivises massively to the tune of about €10k per vehicle in grants and tax rebates. So if we all move to EVs the cost to the country will be astronomical in lost revenue.
I didn’t notice anything in the Greens document about how all the money is going to be raised. They will need to plant a lot of (money) trees.

suicide_circus

No need for green policies. The planet is already self-correcting by sending this pestilence to thin the numbers of the apex predator.

Shefwedfan

BarryD2 wrote: »

Mind you, the motor industry just love the Greens! Great for churning the market, incentivising citizens to scrap their otherwise reasonable vehicles and paying through the nose for new models! What's not to like

Petrol to diesel. Diesel to hybrid. Hybrid to EV. EV to bikes!

The change in 2008 was to move to cleaner fuel. Nobody could see that people would throw away perfectly good car at the cost of thousands to reduce tax by a couple of hundred euros.....

The move to diesel was for cheaper tax, this was fiddled by the car companies to make diesel look cheaper

I still don’t understand to this day why people living in Dublin and major cities moved to diesel in the first place, the fuel economy was never good, the cost of diesel car was more expensive and the service more expensive. So over the life of car it cost more but all everyone was interested in was the tax was 200 on the diesel and 400 on the petrol

Richard Hillman

He wants to reduce our emissions by 7%

The other day there were a story about global emissions will likely fall by 6% this year because of the Virus and lockdowns.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-co2-emissions-likely-to-fall-6-due-to-coronavirus-11976910


This is what is needed to reduce by 7%. A total and complete crippling of the economy.

Shefwedfan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

He wants to reduce our emissions by 7%

The other day there were a story about global emissions will likely fall by 6% this year because of the Virus and lockdowns.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-co2-emissions-likely-to-fall-6-due-to-coronavirus-11976910


This is what is needed to reduce by 7%. A total and complete crippling of the economy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

It’s is interesting to see this

China is always pointed at, they are at 8 per capita

Lovely clean ireland, well we are 7.7

France 5.0
UK 5.6

So yes we need to reduce, doesn’t matter if greens are in power or not.....

Don’t read other lists, we are 37 and China 55, we are “winning” on pollution

Tell me how

Richard Hillman wrote: »

He wants to reduce our emissions by 7%

The other day there were a story about global emissions will likely fall by 6% this year because of the Virus and lockdowns.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-co2-emissions-likely-to-fall-6-due-to-coronavirus-11976910


This is what is needed to reduce by 7%. A total and complete crippling of the economy.

Are you denying there is a need to reduce emissions?

Because, if there is that need, what do you propose is done?

tayto lover

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The change in 2008 was to move to cleaner fuel. Nobody could see that people would throw away perfectly good car at the cost of thousands to reduce tax by a couple of hundred euros.....

The move to diesel was for cheaper tax, this was fiddled by the car companies to make diesel look cheaper

I still don’t understand to this day why people living in Dublin and major cities moved to diesel in the first place, the fuel economy was never good, the cost of diesel car was more expensive and the service more expensive. So over the life of car it cost more but all everyone was interested in was the tax was 200 on the diesel and 400 on the petrol

The Greens pushed hard for carbon tax on petrol cars because of the emissions.
Years later it was found that the diesels that were doing the damage.
I’m all for protecting the planet but these guys are not the people to drive that especially the Irish Green Party.

Shefwedfan

tayto lover wrote: »

The Greens pushed hard for carbon tax on petrol cars because of the emissions.
Years later it was found that the diesels that were doing the damage.
I’m all for protecting the planet but these guys are not the people to drive that especially the Irish Green Party.

Yes, based on the information available then which was in 2005/2006 so that is over 15 years ago now

You are right years later they found diesel was actually worse, mainly as the car manufacturers hide it

No government in the World knew, so not sure why you could hold that over the Greens?

Blueshoe

Will rural people still be allowed to have their own cars or will it be government forced mandatory car pooling

Clarence Boddiker

Bourgeoise frauds, corporate whores without an environmental bone in their body.
Most, like Hazel Chu spend their time ranting about racism and diversity and barely a word spoken about any environmental issues at all.

Eamonn Ryan, Big Business whore who, when he views a beautiful rural vista, thinks about how many windmills he could erect there for his corporate buddies.

The greens, who want to massively increase population numbers and thus increase waste, consumption, energy usage, loss of green space, plastic consumption, etc etc

They want rid of small farmers so as to hand over Irish farmland to corporations and hedge funds.

Yeah no thanks.

Shefwedfan

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Bourgeoise frauds, corporate whores without an environmental bone in their body.
Most, like Hazel Chu spend their time ranting about racism and diversity and barely a word spoken about any environmental issues at all.

Eamonn Ryan, Big Business whore who, when he views a beautiful rural vista, thinks about how many windmills he could erect there for his corporate buddies.

The greens, who want to massively increase population numbers and thus increase waste, consumption, energy usage, loss of green space, plastic consumption, etc etc

They want rid of small farmers so as to hand over Irish farmland to corporations and hedge funds.

Yeah no thanks.

Hate to tell you the small farmer is dying a long long time.....


Increase in population doesnt have to increase pollution and the other things you mention!!

The Tetrarch

Blueshoe wrote: »

Will rural people still be allowed to have their own cars or will it be government forced mandatory car pooling

No, you will have to use a bicycle.
All motorways will be reduced in size to bicycle lanes.
And no smelly cows allowed either.

Blueshoe

The Tetrarch wrote: »

No, you will have to use a bicycle.
All motorways will be reduced in size to bicycle lanes.
And no smelly cows allowed either.

Cows can be thought to cycle bicycles.