Green Party wish list.

Shefwedfan

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well I think the ultimate plan is to ban them outright and herd people towards stupidly overpriced urban hovels with loads of noisy neighbours.

Ps, you'll be delighted to know I already have a lovely one off house on a farm :-)

Problem is, most people that build one off houses are idiot and build a big stupid thing that is far too big and they spend the rest of their lives trying to heat and maintain the thing

Plus loads are awful looking and really is beauty in the beholder, so nobody would buy in years to come without spending huge money, the designs are based on simply out doing everyone in the area for size....

Now I’m sure you have a beautiful home but that’s what the majority of these houses are now

It does show the lack of imagination of the current generation, either has to be a one off pig in makeup or what you described as a hovel....in the 80s they build lovely estates in countryside which gave a mix of both...seemingly we don’t have the imagination anymore to do again

nigeldaniel

A lot of one-off houses in rural places are vanity projects. I live in a rural area all my life and in the last 25 years, 8 one-offs have been built on my road, only one by a local the rest went up for sale within two years and were sold. Two woodlands were lost to this carry on and I now have about 8 neighbors I know nothing about in the last. Scrapping one-off is something I am for.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Good luck with that getting past the electorate in a country who had enormous miscalculations with the costs of a children's hospital, and can't get their measurements right for a printer to be set up. A fupping nuclear power plant doesn't even bear thinking about FFS.

You make an interesting point there JD.
You correctly state that the Civil Service can often get the costings of these projects very wrong..... so then how would you go about solving it, because wether the Greens, or SF or some other party have a grandiose plan to build X, then the same fundamental problems will still arise.

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think there might be some truth in this. You should try the Denny's meat free sausages, they're really good, and you'd never have to harm a poor piggy again.

Yeah because the future is feeding the billions highly processed crap made of goo. Soylent green anyone? Its really good ...

You can chose to eat foods which are properly produced and support smaller producers or you can be all trendy and buy into the corporate spin ..

Huntergonzo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Problem is, most people that build one off houses are idiot and build a big stupid thing that is far too big and they spend the rest of their lives trying to heat and maintain the thing

Plus loads are awful looking and really is beauty in the beholder, so nobody would buy in years to come without spending huge money, the designs are based on simply out doing everyone in the area for size....

Now I’m sure you have a beautiful home but that’s what the majority of these houses are now

It does show the lack of imagination of the current generation, either has to be a one off pig in makeup or what you described as a hovel....in the 80s they build lovely estates in countryside which gave a mix of both...seemingly we don’t have the imagination anymore to do again

In fairness I only partly built, I renovated the cottage that's been on the farm for 200+ years, and I don't like big houses percisely because they're costly to heat.

Although air to water is the way to go these days and I don't know the relative cost of that.

I don't even fancy 2 story houses because I'm thinking ahead to old age, if I'm lucky enough to make it that far then I don't want to be battling a stairs.

I don't know if you live in a housing estate or apartment etc, certainly plenty of my mates do and they're just not for me. But I don't think people should be outright denied the opportunity to live in the country.

Surely other measures can be taken to reduce the number of new one off houses. Perhaps incentives for renovating or developing existing sites rather than just building brand new.

Ultimately people should have to freedom to build their own homes and common sense can go a long way to ensure that they don't become problems in future. But I am against restricting people to urban housing developments and essentially attempting to kill off rural living.

I don't accept that a country can find it a doddle to plan a town but gets completely lost when it comes to planning a few miles outside of a town.

Thelonious Monk

With the one off housing thing, I mean all you in favour of it, do you want everyone to be able to build one offs, until there's one on every patch in Ireland? Or is there a cut off point or what?
Apparently since 1971, the number of one-off houses has increased from 156,000 to more than 450,000. At this rate we're looking at one giant linear roadside housing estate in the coming years.

Roger_007

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

With the one off housing thing, I mean all you in favour of it, do you want everyone to be able to build one offs, until there's one on every patch in Ireland? Or is there a cut off point or what?
Apparently since 1971, the number of one-off houses has increased from 156,000 to more than 450,000. At this rate we're looking at one giant linear roadside housing estate in the coming years.

As we are seeing now with this pandemic, having a more spread out population does have its advantages. The more you squash people into physically smaller areas the more danger there is of infectious diseases spreading more quickly. It is not very easy to avoid contact with other humans in a high rise apartment block.
Ireland as a whole is not very densely populated, so there is no need to squash the population into small densely populated areas. It is ultimately unhealthy.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

With the one off housing thing, I mean all you in favour of it, do you want everyone to be able to build one offs, until there's one on every patch in Ireland? Or is there a cut off point or what?
Apparently since 1971, the number of one-off houses has increased from 156,000 to more than 450,000. At this rate we're looking at one giant linear roadside housing estate in the coming years.

Ribbon development rules are fine for limiting numbers and not many people object to those

Thelonious Monk

Roger_007 wrote: »

As we are seeing now with this pandemic, having a more spread out population does have its advantages. The more you squash people into physically smaller areas the more danger there is of infectious diseases spreading more quickly. It is not very easy to avoid contact with other humans in a high rise apartment block.
Ireland as a whole is not very densely populated, so there is no need to squash the population into small densely populated areas. It is ultimately unhealthy.

The only way forward for a growing population is more densely populated areas. There very much is a need to squash people in, you'll see any model for good urban planning means denser living and shared services.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ribbon development rules are fine for limiting numbers and not many people object to those

Look at the problems it causes though. Look at the traffic in Galway and sh*t public transport. The way it's designed, you just have to have a car.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Look at the problems it causes though. Look at the traffic in Galway and sh*t public transport. The way it's designed, you just have to have a car.

How are people living in one off houses who don’t use or care about public transport making public transport awful in galway ?

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How are people living in one off houses who don’t use or care about public transport making public transport awful in galway ?

It's impossible to provide good public transport to scattered far out ribbon development which means everyone is dependent on cars thus clogging the city centre. The Galway Traffic thread covers all of this!

Huntergonzo

Roger_007 wrote: »

As we are seeing now with this pandemic, having a more spread out population does have its advantages. The more you squash people into physically smaller areas the more danger there is of infectious diseases spreading more quickly. It is not very easy to avoid contact with other humans in a high rise apartment block.
Ireland as a whole is not very densely populated, so there is no need to squash the population into small densely populated areas. It is ultimately unhealthy.

Good point.

Also I would say that limiting people to housing estates and apartments can trap people into massive mortgages, it very much limits your options. I never wanted a big house but there's very few 1 or 2 bed houses being built in the towns near me, they're nearly all big 3 bed+ or apartments which I personally hate.

But it can be much cheaper to build (or in my case renovate), depending of course on what you want. It can be a lot more expensive as well of if you have a big project in mind but each to their own.

Also I think it's a little lazy on the side of planners, it very much suits them to wedge everybody into towns. But again, not everybody wants to live in high density residential areas and so they shouldn't be limited to just that.

I wonder if people here who are against country houses are the type of people who'd hate living out in the country or who never even have lived out there?

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's impossible to provide good public transport to scattered far out ribbon development which means everyone is dependent on cars thus clogging the city centre. The Galway Traffic thread covers all of this!

People in one offs arent looking for public transport, its not going to be provided and they probably werent going to use it anyway, regardless of service provision people will continue to use cars especially while shopping as its handy to put your shopping in your car.

Montage of Feck

There are plenty of now manky looking villages falling derelict, while the surrounding roads are festooned with one off houses.

Eric Cartman

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Good point.

Also I would say that limiting people to housing estates and apartments can trap people into massive mortgages, it very much limits your options. I never wanted a big house but there's very few 1 or 2 bed houses being built in the towns near me, they're nearly all big 3 bed+ or apartments which I personally hate.

But it can be much cheaper to build (or in my case renovate), depending of course on what you want. It can be a lot more expensive as well of if you have a big project in mind but each to their own.

Also I think it's a little lazy on the side of planners, it very much suits them to wedge everybody into towns. But again, not everybody wants to live in high density residential areas and so they shouldn't be limited to just that.

I wonder if people here who are against country houses are the type of people who'd hate living out in the country or who never even have lived out there?

Its usually the same and for greenparty support too

1) have only ever lived in a town or an estate on the side of a town
2) don’t own a car anyway
3) do not understand how anyone might have requirements that cant be met by a flat or house in an estate
4) blame rural dwellers for frustrations that often have little to do with them.
5) advocate tax increases theyll never reach an income threshold to pay

Huntergonzo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

People in one offs arent looking for public transport, its not going to be provided and they probably werent going to use it anyway, regardless of service provision people will continue to use cars especially while shopping as its handy to put your shopping in your car.

Yes it's a poor excuse for opposing rural housing. Our public transport system struggles to serve people in cities as it is, nevermind people in rural areas.

For example our train network is an archaic joke running at near full capacity already in the Dublin commuter belt. Yet Local Authorties try to expand towns along these rail lines as they are 'well connected to the city by train'.

I doubt many of the people who push that line to sell houses have to endure the jammed trains in the mornings.

Thelonious Monk

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Yes it's a poor excuse for opposing rural housing. Our public transport system struggles to serve people in cities as it is, nevermind people in rural areas.

For example our train network is an archaic joke running at near full capacity already in the Dublin commuter belt. Yet Local Authorties try to expand towns along these rail lines as they are 'well connected to the city by train'.

I doubt many of the people who push that line to sell houses have to endure the jammed trains in the mornings.

I asked earlier but do people in favour of one offs being built wherever, do you think it should be limited, or everyone should be allowed build indefinitely?

Huntergonzo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its usually the same and for greenparty support too

1) have only ever lived in a town or an estate on the side of a town
2) don’t own a car anyway
3) do not understand how anyone might have requirements that cant be met by a flat or house in an estate
4) blame rural dwellers for frustrations that often have little to do with them.
5) advocate tax increases theyll never reach an income threshold to pay

Well said, the Green Party cohort certainly don't speak like they know or care too much about anything outside of towns or cities and of course their tax 'reforms' are guaranteed to hit themselves the least!

Most of them never got a good blast of freshly spread slurry up the nostrils either, might do them no harm :-)

Roger_007

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The only way forward for a growing population is more densely populated areas. There very much is a need to squash people in, you'll see any model for good urban planning means denser living and shared services.

I think that a better way to plan is to have well spread out centres of population which could be relatively low density. There is no need any more for thousands of workers to commute into large cities to do work that they could do from anywhere. Many jobs in large cities are desk type jobs and all you need is good internet connections to enable those jobs to move to smaller centres of population.
It’s time to stop the growth of big cities. We have the technology to do it.

Thelonious Monk

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think that a better way to plan is to have well spread out centres of population which could be relatively low density. There is no need any more for thousands of workers to commute into large cities to do work that they could do from anywhere. Many jobs in large cities are desk type jobs and all you need is good internet connections to enable those jobs to move to smaller centres of population.
It’s time to stop the growth of big cities. We have the technology to do it.

So why is every successful country in the world building up, yet this isn't appropriate for Ireland? What do they know that we don't?

Shefwedfan

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well said, the Green Party cohort certainly don't speak like they know or care too much about anything outside of towns or cities and of course their tax 'reforms' are guaranteed to hit themselves the least!

Most of them never got a good blast of freshly spread slurry up the nostrils either, might do them no harm :-)

Not really true is it, I suppose that is the typical answer, try and stick everyone in a box and then gives you a reason to dismiss them


In reality loads of people living in the country side see the benefit of some of the green inititives.



Just some people are afraid of change, the "but sure we always done it like that".

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So why is every successful country in the world building up, yet this isn't appropriate for Ireland? What do they know that we don't?

New york has skyscraper apartment blocks and big one offs on an acre up state, both are allowed together and have their place as a combined solution.

Shefwedfan

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think that a better way to plan is to have well spread out centres of population which could be relatively low density. There is no need any more for thousands of workers to commute into large cities to do work that they could do from anywhere. Many jobs in large cities are desk type jobs and all you need is good internet connections to enable those jobs to move to smaller centres of population.
It’s time to stop the growth of big cities. We have the technology to do it.

Seriously? so you just want loads of loads of spread out towns?

Roger_007

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So why is every successful country in the world building up, yet this isn't appropriate for Ireland? What do they know that we don't?

You have obviously never visited Denmark or The Netherlands or. They are not building up!

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

New york has skyscraper apartment blocks and big one offs on an acre up state, both are allowed together and have their place as a combined solution.

So you are trying to compare New York, one of the most densly populate cities in the World, to some saying we shouldnt build up Dublin and have loads of towns spread out?

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

New york has skyscraper apartment blocks and big one offs on an acre up state, both are allowed together and have their place as a combined solution.

I don't think the most car dependant nation in the world should be something to strive towards

Shefwedfan

Roger_007 wrote: »

You have obviously never visited Denmark or The Netherlands or. They are not building up!

Funny, thats exactly the opposite of what a person in Netherlands told me only a week ago. They have stopped cars going iunto cities, its over 10 euro per hours ! they have stopped spawl because they have no lands left so they are going up and not out!!!

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Seriously? so you just want loads of loads of spread out towns?

Tbh he’s not wrong, if we could decentralise more work and re populate rural ireland it would solve a whole host of problems. Most rural towns issue is the lack of critical mass to sustain businesses providing services, if more people lived in rural communities they would also shop there, easing the burden on congested cities and larger towns. Many people take the ‘all roads lead to dublin’ approach and think we all just need trains and busses to take us from navan to dublin, how about re-populating navan instead...

Thelonious Monk

There are massive apartment blocks all over Holland, we have nothing like that here. Germany and Holland are probably the best in the world when it comes to urban planning.