Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 26-04-2020 02:46PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

So 50% of people lose their jobs and given the hospitality sector accounts for roughly 2 billion into the exchequr alone never mind before the tax gained off PRSI, PAYE etc.

So your sliver lining is another hole in the countries finances from the hospitality sector, I suppose we just keep borrowing to fund the HSE and social welfare then ?
Oh and what about the restaurateurs & publicans who's businesses and livelihoods would be gone ? Sliverlining ?

So if something brings in money, that means it's essential to the functioning of society? That's the only criteria?

Seems like quite a shallow perspective... what about all the lives destroyed by drink, and the subsequent financial and human cost of that?

Not quite as easy to total up the national bill for all of those costs into a nice tidy number. But you can be assured, it's just as big... if not bigger!

Alcohol is not essential, it's a luxury item... and booze houses are a luxury business.

joe_99 · 26-04-2020 02:47PM

jackboy wrote: »

They were standing there unnecessarily for at least an hour. That is loitering. It’s no wonder people are starting to go against the restrictions. They don’t apply to everyone.

Better than having them in his home? TV companies are allowed to film outside. Have you been watching the news at all? Anyway. I'll leave it there and hit ignore.

Ash3070 · 26-04-2020 02:52PM

joe_99 wrote: »

Travelling 250km or standing outside to do a piece for TV. Neither are an offence but one is unnecessary yet you picked on the guy 2 yards from his house. Interesting take that shows your agenda here.

I've no strong opinions myself however the way you are framing it, that it was just him standing outside his house, is unlikely. No doubt there was a crew there to film him, most of whom were probably travelling unnecessarily over 2kms. Not gonna lose sleep over it but he may as well just have just gone into the studio.

Spon Farmer · 26-04-2020 02:53PM

eagle eye wrote: »

You think people don't care about spreading the virus and being responsible for others dying?

There are people who do and people who don’t.

And others will start to tire of doing it.

political analyst · 26-04-2020 02:54PM

The WHO says there's no evidence that those who have recovered from Covid-19 have immunity to infection second time around. So how can it be determined whether or not they have immunity? If they don't, then does that mean that the virus that causes Covid-19 will never disappear?

ACitizenErased · 26-04-2020 02:55PM

political analyst wrote: »

The WHO says there's no evidence that those who have recovered from Covid-19 have immunity to infection second time around. So how can it be determined whether or not they have immunity? If they don't, then does that mean that the virus that causes Covid-19 will never disappear?

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1254160937805926405

eagle eye · 26-04-2020 02:56PM

VonLuck wrote:

Would you be willing to stay in "lockdown" indefinitely on the extremely low probability that your single efforts will save a life?

Have you facts and figures to support your extremely low probability of infecting others claim?

stephenjmcd · 26-04-2020 02:56PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So if something brings in money, that means it's essential to the functioning of society? That's the only criteria?

Seems like quite a shallow perspective... what about all the lives destroyed by drink, and the subsequent financial and human cost of that?

Not quite as easy to total up the national bill for all of those costs into a nice tidy number. But you can be assured, it's just as big... if not bigger!

Alcohol is not essential, it's a luxury item... and booze houses are a luxury business.

Where did I say it was essential ? I took issue with you saying if 50% closed it would be a sliver lining, when its not when you've 50% of people losing jobs and businesses that they've built up over the years, how is that a sliver lining.

Your issue seems to be more with alcohol than anything else, and that's fine. When my local "booze house" reopens I'll be sure to pop in for a sunday dinner and a few pints to get them back up and running.

Drumpot · 26-04-2020 02:56PM

VonLuck wrote: »

There has to be a cost-benefit analysis on this. I'm all for saving lives, but you can't sacrifice everything. If that was the case we would ban driving because people could die in a car accident.

We know enough about the hazards of driving to make informed calls on how to manage it. We just don’t know enough about this virus To make some calls or decide on some strategies and certainly to not be definitive on the best way to manage it.

Everybody accepts that we will have to find a way to get back to business in some capacity eventually but our government has pretty much stated that we can possibly go at least 3 months with this lockdown as is and possibly longer if needs be. We know this because there is 3 month provisional unemployment payments Available so they can do that.

What we can afford is not really a factor right now but it may become an issue if we had to remain like this for months. I don’t think opening up anytime over the next 6 weeks will be down to us having to do so for economic reasons. I think get will try to open up selectively and strategically.

People have been saying “they can’t do this cause economy “ for weeks now and yet here we are.

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 02:57PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you facts and figures to support your extremely low probability of infecting others claim?

Please read my post again. Never said extremely low probability of infecting others.

eagle eye · 26-04-2020 02:59PM

tobefrank321 wrote:

Thanks. Its good the WHO clarified their position that they expect most people who have recovered will have antibodies going forward.

'Will provide some level of protection' does not mean you are immune.

joe_99 · 26-04-2020 02:59PM

Ash3070 wrote: »

I've no strong opinions myself however the way you are framing it, that it was just him standing outside his house, is unlikely. No doubt there was a crew there to film him, most of whom were probably travelling unnecessarily over 2kms. Not gonna lose sleep over it but he may as well just have just gone into the studio.

That's RTE. Have you been watching Virgin media news, RTE news, Newstal etc All have reporters offsite. It's actually allowed and considered important.

eagle eye · 26-04-2020 03:00PM

VonLuck wrote:

Please read my post again. Never said extremely low probability of infecting others.

Well if I'm infecting others and one person dies then I'm responsible.

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 03:01PM

Drumpot wrote: »

We know enough about the hazards of driving to make informed calls on how to manage it. We just don’t know enough about this virus To make some calls or decide on some strategies and certainly to not be definitive on the best way to manage it.

Everybody accepts that we will have to find a way to get back to business in some capacity eventually but our government has pretty much stated that we can possibly go at least 3 months with this lockdown as is and possibly longer if needs be. We know this because there is 3 month provisional unemployment payments Available so they can do that.

What we can afford is not really a factor right now but it may become an issue if we had to remain like this for months. I don’t think opening up anytime over the next 6 weeks will be down to us having to do so for economic reasons. I think get will try to open up selectively and strategically.

People have been saying “they can’t do this cause economy “ for weeks now and yet here we are.

Is there a risk in relaxing some measures? Of course. But I'm not saying to take unmeasured risks. Yes there are some uncertainties, but that's what makes it a risk. We can't go indefinitely until we know every detail of Covid-19 as who knows when that will be.

jackboy · 26-04-2020 03:01PM

joe_99 wrote: »

Better than having them in his home? TV companies are allowed to film outside. Have you been watching the news at all? Anyway. I'll leave it there and hit ignore.

I have been watching the news. That is exactly my point. The amount of completely unnecessary interviews carried on outside is a bad example when the public would be punished for similar things.

People see this and lose respect for the restrictions as tv crews and politicians ignore them at will.

sanjose1 · 26-04-2020 03:03PM

I remember reading a report in Scotland a few years back, they estimated that for every pound spent on alcohol the cost to the health service was 70p. That doesnt include the additional chaos that alcohol causes individuals/families/society. I would take any numbers associated with pubs contribution to the economy with a large pinch of salt

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-04-2020 03:03PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Cured/recovered is exactly the same thing.

I've noticed you like playing word games.

As for posting wikipedia articles I posted a small number all of which have citations at the bottom. You clearly have no clue how wikipedia works, none. They are a summary of a large number of sources any of which you can read up if you weren't so lazy. Clearly too much work.for you!

As with Tony you are also no longer worthy of my time and going on ignore. Goodbye

No, no they aren’t. Jesus fucking Christ. It’s alarming though not surprising that you think using the correct medical terms, each with their own meaning, however discrete, is “playing word games”.

VonLuck · 26-04-2020 03:03PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Well if I'm infecting others and one person dies then I'm responsible.

It is extremely low chance that if you are following strict social distancing guidelines that you will infect someone that will subsequently have a direct impact on someone's death.

tobefrank321 · 26-04-2020 03:04PM

Inquitus wrote: »

There is no confirmation yet that having had COVID-19 confers immunity.

The WHO have rowed back on this already and said they expect most people to have immunity, as you already linked to.

Away With The Fairies · 26-04-2020 03:04PM

VonLuck wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/plans-to-ramp-up-covid-19-testing-to-100000-tests-a-week-996140.html

It's ramping up of testing, not a jump in testing. 100,000 by the third week doesn't mean that they suddenly increase testing on that third week.

I know that. We are almost a week away from the 5th... Where's the increase in testing? Oh great they're testing nursing homes, that should do it. You have to have symptoms plus be in contact with a confirmed case, or symptoms and be a healthcare worker, or have symptoms and be in an at risk group, be pregnant.

What if you don't fall into any of those groups and have symptoms? No test for them. What about contact tracing for someone like this? No test, no contact tracing either.

They need to step up their testing and widen their criteria to identify as much positive cases and not have them roam the damn streets.

eagle eye · 26-04-2020 03:05PM

VonLuck wrote:

It is extremely low chance that if you are following strict social distancing guidelines that you will infect someone that will subsequently have a direct impact on someone's death.

Facts and figures please on how unlikely it is.

ZX7R · 26-04-2020 03:06PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think everyone knows and accepts that businesses will have to adapt and I'd hope alot our going through that planning now, but the theory that we just close everywhere that's of a social nature until theres a vaccine is just ridiculous

It's not business I'm worried adapting.
It's the general public I'm worried about

eagle eye · 26-04-2020 03:06PM

tobefrank321 wrote:

The WHO have rowed back on this already and said they expect most people to have immunity, as you already linked to.

Go back to school and learn how to read. They didn't say that.

tobefrank321 · 26-04-2020 03:07PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

No, no they aren’t. Jesus fucking Christ. It’s alarming though not surprising that you think using the correct medical terms, each with their own meaning, however discrete, is “playing word games”.

Ok then. Explain it in detail.

Are you ready to admit your dumb mistake from last night re immunity? I expect you to double down on it

par for the course with you

The WHO admitted their mistake. Over to you.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-04-2020 03:07PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Thanks. Its good the WHO clarified their position that they expect most people who have recovered will have antibodies going forward.

A couple of people on here last night tried to claim there was no evidence full stop of immunity after being recovered. Turns out they were wrong as usual.

We said that they said there was no evidence at the time of those earlier tweets. That is true. There wasn’t. Actually, there may still be little evidence at this point with research into this virus still in its infancy.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 26-04-2020 03:08PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Where did I say it was essential ? I took issue with you saying if 50% closed it would be a sliver lining, when its not when you've 50% of people losing jobs and businesses that they've built up over the years, how is that a sliver lining.

Your issue seems to be more with alcohol than anything else, and that's fine. When my local "booze house" reopens I'll be sure to pop in for a sunday dinner and a few pints to get them back up and running.

Of course my issue is with alcohol...

Why would you think it was anything else? If you read my post properly, that would have been very obvious.

Lot's of sectors ebb and flow depending on societal factors. Some things go out of fashion, and that sector shrinks in size... people find employment elsewhere.

I did say in my OP, that I would hope those pubs that close down would be reused for other (non-alcohol related) business opportunities. So yes, I think it would be great if lots of our pubs closed down and never opened back up again... and perhaps other more interesting businesses could take their place. Entities that might add a bit more value to people's lives, instead of more booze houses... most of which just hold us back as a society!

Strumms · 26-04-2020 03:09PM

VonLuck wrote: »

There has to be a cost-benefit analysis on this. I'm all for saving lives, but you can't sacrifice everything. If that was the case we would ban driving because people could die in a car accident.

137 people died in car crashes in this country in 2019. If this gets out of hand tens of thousands will die (conservative figures suggest)

26-04-2020 03:10PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The WHO have rowed back on this already and said they expect most people to have immunity, as you already linked to.

They've not rowed back, first of all they said it would be wrong to assume, saying no clear evidence of immunity.

They've clarified that statement by saying that they expect immunity. There's still no clear evidence, however it's expected.

contrary_devil · 26-04-2020 03:11PM

I've just come across an alarming post on Facebook...

<mod snip>Don't post possibly libellous hearsay again.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-04-2020 03:14PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Ok then. Explain it in detail.

Are you ready to admit your dumb mistake from last night re immunity? I expect you to double down on it par for the course with you

The WHO admitted their mistake. Over to you.

No, I very much stand by what I said last night. WHO said there was no evidence because... there was no evidence. People recovering from a virus tells us nothing about whether they have long-term immunity. WHO couldn’t make the assumption that there is. There probably is a certain period of immunity, maybe long-term but imagine people’s reaction to them making a statement along those lines: “We don’t know if people acquire long-term immunity to covid19 but, meh, they probably do”. You can’t make statements like that about a novel virus. WHO didn’t not have evidence and stated that they didn’t have any. Considering countries could use the assumption of long-term immunity to send people who had covid back out into everyday life, that could be dangerous if they’re wrong. With so much incomplete knowledge on this novel virus, erring on the side of caution is needed.

Right, as for cure/recovered. When you recover from a cold, were you cured of it? When I’ve recovered from Crohn’s disease flare ups, was I cured of the disease? Nope, still have it.

And if you’re not actually going to people on ignore, can you lay off the dramatic announcements of same?

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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