What if there is no cure?

hmmm

I've heard that vaccines may attack the T cell lymph nodes directly, and the negative immunogoblin can directly lower the number of AB cell receptors. As they attach to the adenovirus cells directly (not using beta-postive cells), then a vaccine will induce an immunoresponse of plus or negative 2.14, which indirectly leads to cytokine enhanced androgenous amoeba response.

For that reason this will never work.

Inquitus

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

SNIP

In your worst case it would simply keep re-infecting people over and over again and then at some point you'd catch it when you are older, or under the weather, or whatever and it would kill you. Because it would live on through asymptomatic infections over and over again, as no resistance would be built up.

yosemitesam1

We will realise that this isn't deadly enough to warrant lockdown and get on with our old lives. With or without vaccines or treatments.
Other than it's new, there's not much different about covid 19 compared to other endemic coronavirus strains.

hatrickpatrick

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard that vaccines may attack the T cell lymph nodes directly, and the negative immunogoblin can directly lower the number of AB cell receptors. As they attach to the adenovirus cells directly (not using beta-postive cells), then a vaccine will induce an immunoresponse of plus or negative 2.14, which indirectly leads to cytokine enhanced androgenous amoeba response.

For that reason this will never work.

Apologies, any chance of an ELI5 for those who haven't studied biological chemistry? I know what some of this means but not nearly enough to understand what you're saying

Harry Palmr

The potential for a misanthropes wet dream is certainly there. No more old people, no more sickly - or if there are they'll be even more sorted away in the proverbial attic/basement than is the case.

ZeroThreat

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The potential for a misanthropes wet dream is certainly there. No more old people, no more sickly - or if there are they'll be even more sorted away in the proverbial attic/basement than is the case.

People like Dominic Cummings are probably ecstatic about this.

MrMusician18

It is highly likely that at least a weak form of immunity follows infection, so therefore if there is no vaccine, coronavirus will become endemic. Constantly circulating at a low level.

The big issue for humans immune systems is that this virus is novel. It won't stay novel forever.
While it is novel is can burn through a population taking out the weak and susceptible. That can't go on infinitely.

Dr. Bre

Worst case scenario is we let it spread . We try to live along side it . Only the strong survive . That’s why people should try eat healthier now and in general be fit.

saabsaab

First of all I believe they will find a vaccine or at least an effective treatment.


If they don't then a few things will happen.


As permanent quarantine cannot be maintained forever normal activities will resume probably with precautions i.e. screens, masks handwashing etc. the virus will spread throughout the population and many will die.

Those that are left (most people) will now be somewhat immune or not susceptible to it.

It may die off naturally or become less virulent perhaps coming back every so often.

Life expectancy will fall.

trapp

The virus isn't deadly enough to cause long term damage to the way we live. Short term yes.

The current measures and lockdowns are to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed etc.

Over time more capacity will be built up in hospitals, testing and tracing will become quicker and more effective and in time the virus will become endemic, it won't just burn through the population all the time at the same rate as it won't be a new virus anymore.

bennyineire

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard that vaccines may attack the T cell lymph nodes directly, and the negative immunogoblin can directly lower the number of AB cell receptors. As they attach to the adenovirus cells directly (not using beta-postive cells), then a vaccine will induce an immunoresponse of plus or negative 2.14, which indirectly leads to cytokine enhanced androgenous amoeba response.

For that reason this will never work.

Who did you "hear" this from ?

CoBo55

bennyineire wrote: »

Who did you "hear" this from ?

Waterford whispers medical pages... If you can't baffle 'em with science, baffle 'em with bull****...

Hmmzis

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard that vaccines may attack the T cell lymph nodes directly, and the negative immunogoblin can directly lower the number of AB cell receptors. As they attach to the adenovirus cells directly (not using beta-postive cells), then a vaccine will induce an immunoresponse of plus or negative 2.14, which indirectly leads to cytokine enhanced androgenous amoeba response.

For that reason this will never work.

That sounds like something right out of a movie script. Sort of like Start Trek technobabble, but for a sort of apocalyptic zombie type series.

nthclare

saabsaab wrote: »

First of all I believe they will find a vaccine or at least an effective treatment.


If they don't then a few things will happen.


As permanent quarantine cannot be maintained forever normal activities will resume probably with precautions i.e. screens, masks handwashing etc. the virus will spread throughout the population and many will die.

Those that are left (most people) will now be somewhat immune or not susceptible to it.

It may die off naturally or become less virulent perhaps coming back every so often.

Life expectancy will fall.

The strange thing is, the virus needs us to survive and if it is killed off or is being attacked, neutralised whatever the medical terminology is I don't know.

But it would probably have to become much more harmless if it needs to survive, or something like Prep which people take to stop hiv from attacking the system is used to make people imune to the virus.

I know sfa about viruses in humans, although I know a bit about plants and how viruses change themselves in order to live.

Look at those beautiful variegated plant's you'll buy in the garden center, they've actually a viruses, or generic hybrid's...

If you can manipulate plant's, viruses can be manipulated by nature or more horrifically man-made...

It's scary sh1t, my exe was a lecturer in biochemistry and she was explaining to me about vectors etc facinating and scary too...

sean555

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The HIV and Malaria viruses would like a word - some viruses evade or hijack the immune system to such an extent that it isn't possible to train it with a vaccine.

As far as treatments go, some of those unvaccinable viruses require lifelong treatment with very heavy medication that causes all kinds of side effects.

It's definitely not as clear cut as saying that every virus can be prevented. Obviusly most can and we're all hoping that this is one of them, but it's not a certain thing by any means.

Malaria is caused by a parasite and treatment is generally quite simple if not affordable for the people in developing countries who are it's main victims.

Sir Guy who smiles

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The HIV and Malaria viruses would like a word - some viruses evade or hijack the immune system to such an extent that it isn't possible to train it with a vaccine.

Malaria isn't caused by a virus.

patnor1011

Oh, there will be vaccine no doubt. There is way too much money thrown at development so some will be made available. What is problematic is that this virus mutates quite fast and there is over 30 different strains of it right now.
That means vaccination will be a lottery and with bigger odds than like currently with flu vaccines. You may take one against one or few starins and then get sick anyway with different strain.
I would rather focus more on possible treatment. For example there is study from trinity that higher levels of vitamin D make your chances of survival much higher as severity of symptoms is greatly reduced. Some more other things in the pipeline but it all comes down to really just try to live healthier with more excercise and better diet. Generally the healthier you are the better off you will be but that is valid for nearly every disease anyway.
Perhaps we just need to reevaluate our lifestyles.

Sir Guy who smiles

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard that vaccines may attack the T cell lymph nodes directly, and the negative immunogoblin can directly lower the number of AB cell receptors. As they attach to the adenovirus cells directly (not using beta-postive cells), then a vaccine will induce an immunoresponse of plus or negative 2.14, which indirectly leads to cytokine enhanced androgenous amoeba response.

For that reason this will never work.

You are either way more knowledgeable than me, or a bull****ter. Since you threw in "adenovirus cells " and " negative immunoglobilin" I'm going to guess bull****ter.

bennyineire

patnor1011 wrote: »

Oh, there will be vaccine no doubt. There is way too much money thrown at development so some will be made available. What is problematic is that this virus mutates quite fast and there is over 30 different strains of it right now.
That means vaccination will be a lottery and with bigger odds than like currently with flu vaccines. You may take one against one or few starins and then get sick anyway with different strain.
I would rather focus more on possible treatment. For example there is study from trinity that higher levels of vitamin D make your chances of survival much higher as severity of symptoms is greatly reduced. Some more other things in the pipeline but it all comes down to really just try to live healthier with more excercise and better diet. Generally the healthier you are the better off you will be but that is valid for nearly every disease anyway.
Perhaps we just need to reevaluate our lifestyles.

Why do people keep saying it mutates fast when in fact it is slow, drives me around the bend. Where are your facts ?

Here's a little link for you

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-mutation-rate.html

Plumbthedepths

This guy seems to believe we may have to just co exist as we do with many other viruses.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/dont-bet-on-vaccine-to-protect-us-from-covid-19-says-world-health-expert

fryup

What's the end-game if no vaccine is possible and immunity doesn't follow infection?

i guess in that case we're all,,,,,,,,,,,

fuked!

SeaBreezes

patnor1011 wrote: »

Oh, there will be vaccine no doubt. There is way too much money thrown at development so some will be made available. What is problematic is that this virus mutates quite fast and there is over 30 different strains of it right now.
That means vaccination will be a lottery and with bigger odds than like currently with flu vaccines. You may take one against one or few starins and then get sick anyway with different strain.
I would rather focus more on possible treatment. For example there is study from trinity that higher levels of vitamin D make your chances of survival much higher as severity of symptoms is greatly reduced. Some more other things in the pipeline but it all comes down to really just try to live healthier with more excercise and better diet. Generally the healthier you are the better off you will be but that is valid for nearly every disease anyway.
Perhaps we just need to reevaluate our lifestyles.

All that lovely vit D from the sun didn't help the Italians or Spanish?

Plumbthedepths

SeaBreezes wrote: »

All that lovely vit D from the sun didn't help the Italians or Spanish?

The tactile nature of Spainish and Italian people didn't help them either.

ShineOn7

hmmm wrote: »

I've heard that vaccines may attack the T cell lymph nodes directly, and the negative immunogoblin can directly lower the number of AB cell receptors. As they attach to the adenovirus cells directly (not using beta-postive cells), then a vaccine will induce an immunoresponse of plus or negative 2.14, which indirectly leads to cytokine enhanced androgenous amoeba response.

For that reason this will never work.

LiquidZeb

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Basically the virus is potentially able to kill the t blood cells that normally fight infection. HIV does something similar but it hijacks the cells and turns them against the body. That's what's gotten some researchers worried.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The HIV and Malaria viruses would like a word - some viruses evade or hijack the immune system to such an extent that it isn't possible to train it with a vaccine.

As far as treatments go, some of those unvaccinable viruses require lifelong treatment with very heavy medication that causes all kinds of side effects.

It's definitely not as clear cut as saying that every virus can be prevented. Obviusly most can and we're all hoping that this is one of them, but it's not a certain thing by any means.

Malaria isn’t caused by a virus. It’s caused by a parasite and that’s part of why it’s been so intractable. As for HIV, there might not be a vaccine, but most people with it will live a normal lifespan now. Some HIV-positive women can even breastfed because their viral load is so low.

donaghs

fryup wrote: »

What's the end-game if no vaccine is possible and immunity doesn't follow infection?

i guess in that case we're all,,,,,,,,,,,

fuked!

There’s never been a disease that killed everyone, obviously!

BUT, ASSUMING THE OP IDEA THAT THERES NO VACCINE AND REINFECTION IS POSSIBLE

People have to eat so you can’t live in a lockdown forever unless you can do subsistence farming, and have a gun to protect your crops/equipment from the urban hordes who can’t do this.

Everyone else would just have to practice distancing and stoically Accept the 0.5% death rate, and try and survive and rebuild some kind of functioning society. 😀

Beasty

Threads merged

marno21

If the study of antibody rates from New York is replicated elsewhere it may become the case that living alongside the virus is the chosen method of operation.

It seems one of the main issues here isn't the deadliness of the virus, it's the fact that it's ridiculously transmissible and if let unchecked would infect 1/3rd of the population within a month. A controlled spread of the virus around the population would reach herd immunity in months.

The current death rates from places with antibody studies would seem to be well below 1%, provided there isn't an obscene rush on the health service. The antibody tests from Madrid and Lombardy will be quite interesting to help us understand this better. A CFR << 1% is a better outcome than we expected especially considering we are relying on unproven vaccines with unknown side effects, and the lack of treatments.

The genie is out of the bottle now and there is no way out of this situation pain free.

ShineOn7

Danzy wrote: »

It'll become milder in time so one won't know if it is a cold or Chinese Bat Flu.

Medical treatments will vastly reduce the fatality rate.

Hand sanitizer and masks will be everywhere after the lockdown.

5 minute tests, home tests will be everywhere and used for every sniffle.

All within 8 to 10 weeks.

Not doubting you, but any source on the above?