Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

Ozark707

polaco wrote: »

I am guessing when all those people return to offices in September and students return to college demand will go up and there will be no more reductions

That would be my thinking as well but I can see FF and the Greens wanting to have made a mark so I can see a further crackdown on STL's etc. On the flip side I am hearing of more people now getting permission to WFH long term and are seriously weighing up leaving Dublin.

ampleforth

People are perfect at hypocrisy. When we are renting, we complain about landlords. We complain about the government not allowing us to freely act on property as soon as we own it.

Its best to try to work with the environment and the situation that we have and adapt to change quickly by failing quickly and by learning from it.

If you do not like rent, get a property. If you do not have enough saved for your down payment, make more money and/or save more by changing your lifestyle. If you don't make enough money in your job, change that job, upskill etc. If you hate property, get back to rent or life with your parents or leave the country to move to a better place. Just don't just sit and complain.

Changing the environment you are in takes a lot longer than changing yourself.

Ozark707

ampleforth wrote: »

Changing the environment you are in takes a lot longer than changing yourself.

In fairness with the stroke of a pen changes around STL could be made which would bring rents down even more...the new minister of Housing has talked the talk while in opposition...

mrslancaster

Ozark707 wrote: »

In fairness with the stroke of a pen changes around STL could be made which would bring rents down even more...the new minister of Housing has talked the talk while in opposition...

what is STL?

PommieBast

mrslancaster wrote: »

what is STL?

Short Term Let. Supposed to require planning permission which Dublin CC has a policy of not granting.

ampleforth

PommieBast wrote: »

Short Term Let. Supposed to require planning permission which Dublin CC has a policy of not granting.

What exactly is short-term in that regard? 1 week, 1 month, 3 ?

PommieBast

ampleforth wrote: »

What exactly is short-term in that regard? 1 week, 1 month, 3 ?

14 days.


https://www.housing.gov.ie/planning/private-rented-housing/new-regulation-short-term-letting

mrslancaster

ampleforth wrote: »

What exactly is short-term in that regard? 1 week, 1 month, 3 ?

an estate agent told me last year that without planning permission from the council, every rental even for a few days should be registered with RTB. Unless its your own home then the rules are different. He said landlords can do as many short rentals as they like but every change of tenant has to be registered so a lot of paperwork involved.

ampleforth

mrslancaster wrote: »

an estate agent told me last year that without planning permission from the council, every rental even for a few days should be registered with RTB. Unless its your own home then the rules are different. He said landlords can do as many short rentals as they like but every change of tenant has to be registered so a lot of paperwork involved.

I appears that the goal is to protect tenants (and probably also hotels) by not allowing tourists to interfere through business models like AirBnb. So, next time when you are a tourist think of that in return when you pay extra for hotels without the individual ambience and personal touch because somebody there does not want you to 'steal' space.

Two sides of a coin that could be addressed by simply having more rental objects and enough for everybody rather then taking a socialist approach to redistribute that little that is available ...

PommieBast

mrslancaster wrote: »

an estate agent told me last year that without planning permission from the council, every rental even for a few days should be registered with RTB. Unless its your own home then the rules are different. He said landlords can do as many short rentals as they like but every change of tenant has to be registered so a lot of paperwork involved.

Not quite true. Planning permisison is needed if short letting is done for more than 90 days per year.

Claw Hammer

PommieBast wrote: »

Not quite true. Planning permisison is needed if short letting is done for more than 90 days per year.

What the previous poster seemed to be suggesting was having a series of RTB registered lettings of short duration. Whatever about the planning, it would be complete madness.

mrslancaster

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What the previous poster seemed to be suggesting was having a series of RTB registered lettings of short duration. Whatever about the planning, it would be complete madness.

agree - as the estate agent said it would be lots of paperwork and very expensive to use an agent but nothing to stop a landlord from doing it & no planning permission needed.

ampleforth

mrslancaster wrote: »

agree - as the estate agent said it would be lots of paperwork and very expensive to use an agent but nothing to stop a landlord from doing it & no planning permission needed.

... and tourists (or the short-term and potentially well situated tenant) who are paying for the property would then also pay for all the paper work and therefore support the administrative branch of the enterprise. Everybody wins!

Claw Hammer

mrslancaster wrote: »

agree - as the estate agent said it would be lots of paperwork and very expensive to use an agent but nothing to stop a landlord from doing it & no planning permission needed.

The occupants would also have rights as tenants under the legislation. What if any of them stayed on and refused to leave? Instead of throwing their bags onto the road, the owner has to issue a Notice of Termination and wait for the RTB to deal with the overholding case.
The further issue would be there would be a paper trail of short lettings if the LL kept updating the particulars of lettings so a prosecution for unauthorised use could be easily made out.

mrslancaster

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The occupants would also have rights as tenants under the legislation. What if any of them stayed on and refused to leave? Instead of throwing their bags onto the road, the owner has to issue a Notice of Termination and wait for the RTB to deal with the overholding case.
The further issue would be there would be a paper trail of short lettings if the LL kept updating the particulars of lettings so a prosecution for unauthorised use could be easily made out.

How is it unauthorised use? If a landlord wants to do a series of short duration lettings and register each one with the RTB is that prohibited? Is that not called corporate lets or something?

you are right about the possibility of overstaying but from what I read on this forum, that seems to be common and is not because of the length of occupancy.

brisan

polaco wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/rents-likely-to-fall-5-while-home-prices-steady-after-covid-19-lockdown-1007685.html

Looks like we are going to have some reductions on the housing market

Ronan lyons works for Daft does he not as well as being a professor at TCD
Skin in the game as they say

brisan

mrslancaster wrote: »

an estate agent told me last year that without planning permission from the council, every rental even for a few days should be registered with RTB. Unless its your own home then the rules are different. He said landlords can do as many short rentals as they like but every change of tenant has to be registered so a lot of paperwork involved.

some landlords do not register 12 month leases so good luck getting them to register short term leases

JimmyVik

polaco wrote: »

I am guessing when all those people return to offices in September and students return to college demand will go up and there will be no more reductions

Lots and lots of people in my company had given up apartments and room shares and just went home, be it in Ireland or to abroad. They are still working from home. But they are all expected back in the office in Dublin in the middle of August.

brisan

polaco wrote: »

I am guessing when all those people return to offices in September and students return to college demand will go up and there will be no more reductions

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/universities-eye-more-irish-students-to-replace-overseas-losses-1.4244103

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/universities-facing-huge-losses-due-to-fall-in-foreign-students-1.4231675

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/12/twitter-tells-employees-they-can-work-from-home-forever.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/as-silicon-valley-giants-facebook-twitter-google-embrace-permanent-wfh-others-may-follow/articleshow/75911514.cms?from=mdr

Claw Hammer

mrslancaster wrote: »

How is it unauthorised use? If a landlord wants to do a series of short duration lettings and register each one with the RTB is that prohibited? Is that not called corporate lets or something?

Short letting is regarded as a different planning use.
Thomas McMahon and Others v Right Honourable The Lord Mayor, Aldermen and Burgesses of Dublin
Subject: Planning
Keywords: Planning conditions
High Court, 19 June 1996
"The use of the homes commercially for short term lettings was a use different from use as a private dwelling."

There is nothing in the RTA which, on the basis of registration alone, alters this. There is nothing in the planning legislation whih excepts properties registered under the Residential Tenancies Act.
The RTA itself does not cover lettings for the purpose of a holiday.
Anyone registering a series of short term lettings would be proving that they are doing so, aside from allthe other hassle they are creating for themselves.
The occupants would have to be sourced form Airbnb type sites and
they would have to be given terms and conditions which showed a genuine lease was intended if there was to be any serious attempt to defend this type of arrangement in court.
It is an utterly unstateable proposition.

runswithascript

More studio apartments (units in a purpose built apartment building rather than units in a house broken down into flats) of decent size in leafy areas of South Dublin with 1 year lease minimums are coming through on my search, some ~€850, some ~€750 - long may this last.

JimmyVik

runswithascript wrote: »

More studio apartments (units in a purpose built apartment building rather than units in a house broken down into flats) of decent size in leafy areas of South Dublin with 1 year lease minimums are coming through on my search, some ~€850, some ~€750 - long may this last.

Are they just glorified bedrooms?
Links?

runswithascript

JimmyVik wrote: »

Are they just glorified bedrooms?

No, a good step up from a regular bedsit.

JimmyVik wrote: »

Links?

The only one up at the moment:

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/studio-apartments-for-rent/sandyford/blackglen-view-apts-blackglen-road-sandyford-dublin-2031262/

JimmyVik

runswithascript wrote: »

No, a good step up from a regular bedsit.



The only one up at the moment:

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/studio-apartments-for-rent/sandyford/blackglen-view-apts-blackglen-road-sandyford-dublin-2031262/

Its probably a bit smaller than it looks in the photos. Those photos are distorted.
But Id live in that for €788.

Smouse156

Elmfield apartments in Leopardstown had the rent dropped today:

1-bed €1872 to €1822
2-bed €2071 to €1977

Had been keeping an eye on this place was was listed for nearly 5 months with no takers. The 3-bed was dropped last week but I don’t have exact numbers.

Lux23

I don't know why anyone would want to live in Leopardstown.

Assetbacked

JimmyVik wrote: »

Its probably a bit smaller than it looks in the photos. Those photos are distorted.
But Id live in that for €788.

That's a lot to live far away from the city centre and good transport.

Ozark707

Smouse156 wrote: »

Elmfield apartments in Leopardstown had the rent dropped today:

1-bed €1872 to €1822
2-bed €2071 to €1977

Had been keeping an eye on this place was was listed for nearly 5 months with no takers. The 3-bed was dropped last week but I don’t have exact numbers.

Almost 2k for a 2 bed out there....when you consider that you can get decent places in D4 for the 2k mark now I wonder will this ~5% reduction in rents do the trick.

Claw Hammer

Ozark707 wrote: »

Almost 2k for a 2 bed out there....when you consider that you can get decent places in D4 for the 2k mark now I wonder will this ~5% reduction in rents do the trick.

Elm Park is in D4!

JimmyVik

Assetbacked wrote: »

That's a lot to live far away from the city centre and good transport.

This is true.
But its the cheapest non room share ive seen in ages.
Gone now though