Relaxation of restrictions

briany

lord quackinton wrote: »

America have less deaths per million then Ireland and Donald trump is being called a war criminal for his handling of the crisis
I have read articles in Irish media and many posts on boards attacking trump for his handling of the crisis

America have less deaths per million than Ireland because most of their deaths are occurring in New York so far. I'm not entirely sure what makes anyone think that people from other parts of the States won't be catching this disease and that the New York situation won't be repeated elsewhere in the US, especially after restrictions are lifted.

GazzaL

They'll have to relax restrictions. I've already put "Get the ride" in my diary for the 5th of May. I can't change that.

pjohnson

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You were so outraged you decided to make things worse? Top notch work there.

As said earlier the intelligence of the "open up" crowd is quite remarkable.

Cork Boy 53

lord quackinton wrote: »

Sweden have under 2.3 times our deaths and twice our population
AND NO LOCKDOWN

America have less deaths per million then Ireland and Donald trump is being called a war criminal for his handling of the crisis
I have read articles in Irish media and many posts on boards attacking trump for his handling of the crisis

From the very start of I have posted on here that this lockdown was pointless
The number of deaths were never high enough to suggest we shut down our economy
If this virus is the threat that the government the media and posters on here maintain it is then Explain what happened in Sweden and what happened in America

I want everyone here to have a good think about what freedom means to them
the freedom to make decisions for yourselves and for your families

When this government demands that over 70s cocoon long term until a vaccine is ready then tell this government go to hell
Stand with your parents and your grandparents and other elderly relatives and if they want to live their lives as they see fit and decide to not cocoon then back them up with fists if necessary

remember you are proud free thinking Irish people And if you want to go for a walk on a beach or go for a cycle in the mountains then just get on with it
We are supposed to tell the state what to do but the state has become more and more powerful and now tells us what to do and increasingly are entering our own homes telling us what to do

My lockdown ended when I read the news about keelings - so should yours

ldy4mxonucwsq6

lord quackinton wrote: »

I want everyone here to have a good think about what freedom means to them
the freedom to make decisions for yourselves and for your families

When this government demands that over 70s cocoon long term until a vaccine is ready then tell this government go to hell
Stand with your parents and your grandparents and other elderly relatives and if they want to live their lives as they see fit and decide to not cocoon then back them up with fists if necessary

remember you are proud free thinking Irish people And if you want to go for a walk on a beach or go for a cycle in the mountains then just get on with it
We are supposed to tell the state what to do but the state has become more and more powerful and now tells us what to do and increasingly are entering our own homes telling us what to do

My lockdown ended when I read the news about keelings - so should yours

Have you been watching Braveheart

drunkmonkey

14 days
338 hours
20317 minutes
1219062 seconds
until Tuesday, 5 May 2020

BanditLuke

GazzaL wrote: »

They'll have to relax restrictions. I've already put "Get the ride" in my diary for the 5th of May. I can't change that.

Sorry to inform you John but China have stopped exporting sex dolls. You are sh1t out of luck.

Stateofyou

How do you account for the modeling then, Lord Quack, of which figures painted a story of an absolute **** show without those measures. It hasn't been pointless. If you were American you'd be waving your confederate flag right about now.

BanditLuke

briany wrote: »

America have less deaths per million than Ireland because most of their deaths are occurring in New York so far. I'm not entirely sure what makes anyone think that people from other parts of the States won't be catching this disease and that the New York situation won't be repeated elsewhere in the US, especially after restrictions are lifted.

Why do people keep bringing up NY? NY is part of the US. Dublin has most of Ireland's deaths, Dublin is part of Ireland.

The mental gymnastics in here to suit agendas will do down in history.

BanditLuke

jmayo wrote: »

For all those claiming that this only affects especially the old and the compromised, just think about the hundred odd NHS and care workers that have died from this in the UK.
27 NHS workers have been offically confirmed by government.

Some of them are not that old.
And it is now believed that the viral dose that one is exposed to has huge effect on how bad one gets it.

If we had wholesale infections then we have drastic increase in numbers needing medical attention, and increased numbers needing ICU treatment.
That then increases the possible exposure of our healthcare professionals and staff.

Ultimately it means the nice little 0.4% that is often trotted out by some posters here jumps by an order of magnitude.

Here is pic of some NHS/heathcare staff that have died in UK.

Just imagine it being one of your relatives that work in HSE here.
And most of us have a relative or friend working in healthcare somewhere.

Great post.

Mic 1972

BanditLuke wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up NY? NY is part of the US. Dublin has most of Ireland's deaths, Dublin is part of Ireland.

The mental gymnastics in here to suit agendas will do down in history.

Yep, agree
This thing of looking for reasons to avoid comparisons with other countries is ridiculous

growleaves

Stateofyou wrote: »

How do you account for the modeling then, Lord Quack, of which figures painted a story of an absolute **** show without those measures.

Er those models turned out to be inaccurate. Why would someone need to account for predictions from a model which was false?

hmmm

lord quackinton wrote: »

When this government demands that over 70s cocoon long term until a vaccine is ready then tell this government go to hell
Stand with your parents and your grandparents and other elderly relatives and if they want to live their lives as they see fit and decide to not cocoon then back them up with fists if necessary

That's all very well, but what will you say to the doctors who will have to deny your relatives an ICU bed if they need it (which is a strong possibility with the over-70s).

Or worse, have to turn someone else away from ICU because your 70 year old relative insisted on their right to mix freely in society.

Or worse again, an ICU nurse or doctor dies because they are having to treat your relative who is expelling huge amounts of viral load into the air.

This is as much about personal responsibility and not being a severe burden on our doctors and nurses.

pgj2015

BanditLuke wrote: »

Sorry to inform you John but China have stopped exporting sex dolls. You are sh1t out of luck.

you should have ordered it back in January Luke.;)

briany

BanditLuke wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up NY? NY is part of the US. Dublin has most of Ireland's deaths, Dublin is part of Ireland.

The mental gymnastics in here to suit agendas will do down in history.

The disparity between N.Y. and every other U.S. state skews the figures because most other states are as of yet relatively untouched by the disease thus far. Given the sheer size of the U.S. in terms of population and geography, they could still be at a much earlier point in their Covid battle than Ireland is, so not until both countries could be said to have beaten the pandemic could it be said who's fared better in that grisly stat of deaths per million.

Stateofyou

growleaves wrote: »

Er those models turned out to be inaccurate. Why would someone need to account for predictions from a model which was false?

Source?

growleaves

Stateofyou wrote: »

Source?

Post #8132

easypazz

“What we’re working on at the moment is a plan that will be ready by the end of April-early May in advance of the May 5th big day if you like. And what we hope to set out is a step-wise plan which indicates how we would reopen the country in different steps and what are the criteria that would have to be met to move from one stage to the next.”

Even Leo is ramping May 5th as "the big day"

riclad

BanditLuke wrote: »

Will be delighted if restrictions are relaxed by July.

There are already small hardware shops open . in the city centre I think they.ll open schools for one day a week. To give working people a break. I think it. L L be a year before pubs and concert halls or cinema.s are open. Maybe cafes with strict rules on social distancing might open in 2months. I think they. L L extend the 2k limit to 3k or more. I think they should open phone shops. But have strict limits on no of customers Eg 3or 4 let in at a time. Like tesco limits no of people allowed in the store

BanditLuke

easypazz wrote: »

“What we’re working on at the moment is a plan that will be ready by the end of April-early May in advance of the May 5th big day if you like. And what we hope to set out is a step-wise plan which indicates how we would reopen the country in different steps and what are the criteria that would have to be met to move from one stage to the next.”

Even Leo is ramping May 5th as "the big day"

He didn't say big day though did he :pac:

You have a lot riding on this one pal, it's going to be like your xmas

easypazz

BanditLuke wrote: »

He didn't say big day though did he :pac:

You have a lot riding on this one pal, it's going to be like your xmas

I have quoted him word for word. May 5th "BIG DAY" is exactly what he said.

Its happening. Suck it up.

Stateofyou

growleaves wrote: »

Post #8132

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm talking about the same thing. Hasn't Simon Harris been mentioning that we have been flattening the curve, it's working, and the cases would have been x if we hadn't have... etc. That's what I've had in mind- is that the same thing?

The point I was making though, was that efforts in flattening the curve are worth it, that 'lockdown' isn't for nothing. Are people now saying there was no point to it?

alwald

BanditLuke wrote: »

He didn't say big day though did he :pac:

You have a lot riding on this one pal, it's going to be like your xmas

I fear for him and gazzal if the "lockdown" is extended or if the restrictions aren't lifted as per their expectations

Dickie10

seems to be a bit of difference of opinion bewttn varadkar and harris. varadkar much more open to relaxing restrictions of all kinds. think some pubs will be open anyway soon enough, speakeasys if you want them and know the knock, people will begin to ignore a lot of restriction from may 5th.

Nordicgael

BanditLuke wrote: »

He didn't say big day though did he :pac:

You have a lot riding on this one pal, it's going to be like your xmas

in fairness it is a direct quote..... second last paragraph in this link



https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/opening-of-primary-schools-is-feasible--but-on-a-phased-basis-says-public-health-expert-995092.html

growleaves

Stateofyou wrote: »

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm talking about the same thing. Hasn't Simon Harris been mentioning that we have been flattening the curve, it's working, and the cases would have been x if we hadn't have... etc. That's what I've had in mind- is that the same thing?

The point I was making though, was that efforts in flattening the curve are worth it, that 'lockdown' isn't for nothing. Are people now saying there was no point to it?

Sorry I don't have data to hand about Professor Nolan's models for the NPHET Advisory Group.

I, alone among posters, have said that the lockdown has not been scientifically proven to be efficacious (that's just a fact, whatever about the emotions it stirs up in you). Other people have said that I'm an idiot.

Analyses about the exact effectiveness of the lockdown will have to wait until there is more data and the lockdowns have ended. There are un-locked-down countries which are within the average for deaths. That doesn't look good for proponents of lockdown.

However some of these, like Taiwan, have a unique set of restrictions which are in some way even stricter than our measures but didn't involve locking down in the sense that we use that expression.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

lord quackinton wrote: »

Sweden have under 2.3 times our deaths and twice our population
AND NO LOCKDOWN

America have less deaths per million then Ireland and Donald trump is being called a war criminal for his handling of the crisis
I have read articles in Irish media and many posts on boards attacking trump for his handling of the crisis

From the very start of I have posted on here that this lockdown was pointless
The number of deaths were never high enough to suggest we shut down our economy
If this virus is the threat that the government the media and posters on here maintain it is then Explain what happened in Sweden and what happened in America

I want everyone here to have a good think about what freedom means to them
the freedom to make decisions for yourselves and for your families

When this government demands that over 70s cocoon long term until a vaccine is ready then tell this government go to hell
Stand with your parents and your grandparents and other elderly relatives and if they want to live their lives as they see fit and decide to not cocoon then back them up with fists if necessary

remember you are proud free thinking Irish people And if you want to go for a walk on a beach or go for a cycle in the mountains then just get on with it
We are supposed to tell the state what to do but the state has become more and more powerful and now tells us what to do and increasingly are entering our own homes telling us what to do

My lockdown ended when I read the news about keelings - so should yours

briany wrote: »

America have less deaths per million than Ireland because most of their deaths are occurring in New York so far. I'm not entirely sure what makes anyone think that people from other parts of the States won't be catching this disease and that the New York situation won't be repeated elsewhere in the US, especially after restrictions are lifted.

Comparing Ireland to Sweden or the US (or anywhere else not of a similar size) is a bit of a fallacy. Both coutnries have compeltely different tasks and osbtacles to face.

The US healthcsre system is going to be a major contributor with people being to sick to work and too poor not to. That system was long in place before Trump arrived. That said, while "war criminal" is a certainly melodramatic, some of his earlier denials of the seriousnjess of the situation should relly put him into negligence territory.

Sweden is a hige country with not that many big cities. ONce you go north of Sweden, the place is so big and so spreadout that social distancing isn't all that difficult. Also, while there's no official lockdown in place, places of education are closed and most Stockholmers are doing it voluntarily anyway.

alwald

growleaves wrote: »

I, alone among posters, have said that the lockdown has not been scientifically proven to be efficacious (that's just a fact, whatever about the emotions it stirs up in you). Other people have said that I'm an idiot.

What country amongst those seriously hit (10k + confirmed cases) succeeded in managing the virus the best? Let me answer this question for you, it's China (Wuhan) and they have done it via a serious and severe lockdown.
The fate of countries with less restrictions like Sweden is unknown at this stage, but I wish them all the best!!

Stateofyou

growleaves wrote: »

Sorry I don't have data to hand about Professor Nolan's models for the NPHET Advisory Group.

I, alone among posters, have said that the lockdown has not been scientifically proven to be efficacious (that's just a fact, whatever about the emotions it stirs up in you). Other people have said that I'm an idiot.

Analyses about the exact effectiveness of the lockdown will have to wait until there is more data and the lockdowns have ended. There are un-locked-down countries which are within the average for deaths. That doesn't look good for proponents of lockdown.

However some of these, like Taiwan, have a unique set of restrictions which are in some way even stricter than our measures but didn't involve locking down in the sense that we use that expression.

Angela Merkel has a Phd in Quantum Physics, and she seems to well understand the science behind social distancing in keeping the R0 factor down, and how sensitive our actions are to this #. Modeling can be off, predictions can be off, but I don't see how there can be any doubt that the idea behind the lockdown's implemented by most countries are to limit the spread so as to reduce numbers that overwhelm our health services.
Aren't all kinds of graphs showing the effectiveness of this already, or am I dreaming.

growleaves

alwald wrote: »

What country amongst those seriously hit (10k + confirmed cases) succeeded in managing the virus the best? Let me answer this question for you, it's China (Wuhan) and they have done it via a serious and severe lockdown.
The fate of countries with less restrictions like Sweden is unknown at this stage, but I wish them all the best!!

Sorry but I'm but talking about scientific proof, not a correlation which happens to coincide with a direct cause-and-effect explanation.

Since I'm sure you understand the difference I won't patronise you by explaining it.

(Also there is the issue of whether we regard CCP data as trustworthy. But there will be other data to look at.)