The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Happy4all

Just watching the news showing large gatherings in UK parks etc yesterday. I am quiet shocked that this is still happening .

Icepick

More accurate data as time passes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/why-what-we-think-we-know-about-the-uks-coronavirus-death-toll-is-wrong

Every day we get one big figure for deaths occurring in the UK. Everyone jumps on this number, taking it to be the latest toll. However NHS England figures – which currently make up the bulk of UK deaths – in fact reflect the day on which the death was reported, not the actual date of death, which is usually days, sometimes weeks, before it appears in the figures.

The truth is we don’t know how many deaths have taken place the previous day. In fact the headline figure is likely to under-report the number of deaths that actually happened the previous day.

The number we hear about usually counts deaths which took place at an earlier date. The difference matters because by undercounting the number of deaths we are skewing the curve.

lawred2

Icepick wrote: »

More accurate data as time passes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/why-what-we-think-we-know-about-the-uks-coronavirus-death-toll-is-wrong

Surely that's a "peace time" way of reporting deaths... They are hardly still doing that with this virus are they?

meeeeh

Melanchthon wrote: »

I thought the UK was lumping the non-hospital deaths into a weekly figure not ignoring them completely.
Germany hasn't officially stated their post-mortem testing policy so might be under reporting deaths.

Germans are saying their numbers are fairly accurate. If understand correctly daily reports from UK are for hospital deaths. The statistical office will report also deaths elsewhere.

I wouldn't be overly hung up in that. If anyone saw Feench numbers last few days. They reported 500 or 600 per day but their numbers jumped well over thousands for a few days because nursing homes were asked to send in the numbers of people dying since this begun. Spain are also saying their numbers are undeclared. Frankly when you have masses of people looking treatment in hospital accurate counting probably isn't a priority.

Seth Brundle

Happy4all wrote: »

Just watching the news showing large gatherings in UK parks etc yesterday. I am quiet shocked that this is still happening .

When the Health Secretary Matt Hancock ignores the WHO's advice for those with coronavirus and mixes with people at the opening London's Nightingale Hospital (where there's visibly little social distancing until the formal press conference) whilst repeatedly touching his face and reusing a tissue, why would the public think they should do any different?

https://twitter.com/JonJonesSnr/status/1246142911001042944?s=19

theological

Happy4all wrote: »

Just watching the news showing large gatherings in UK parks etc yesterday. I am quiet shocked that this is still happening .

This is a tiny idiotic minority of people. The problem with this is they are going to ruin exercise opportunity for those who don't have gardens or countryside to walk in in central London or other large UK cities. As Matt Hancock said this morning it is disgraceful.

threeball

Seth Brundle wrote: »

When the Health Secretary Matt Hancock ignores the WHO's advice for those with coronavirus and mixes with people at the opening London's Nightingale Hospital (where there's visibly little social distancing until the formal press conference) whilst repeatedly touching his face and reusing a tissue, why would the public think they should do any different?

https://twitter.com/JonJonesSnr/status/1246142911001042944?s=19

He shouldnt even be out of isolation. You can be shedding for up to 8 days after symptoms pass.

Joe_ Public

Seth Brundle wrote: »

When the Health Secretary Matt Hancock ignores the WHO's advice for those with coronavirus and mixes with people at the opening London's Nightingale Hospital (where there's visibly little social distancing until the formal press conference) whilst repeatedly touching his face and reusing a tissue, why would the public think they should do any different?

https://twitter.com/JonJonesSnr/status/1246142911001042944?s=19

Its just irresponsible and shocking leadership. Hancock actually broke their own protocol by leaving isolation a day early which is even a week before minimum WHO guidelines. Why should anyone listen to him?

lawred2

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Its just irresponsible and shocking leadership. Hancock actually broke their own protocol by leaving isolation a day early which is even a week before minimum WHO guidelines. Why should anyone listen to him?

Does he not have a PM who should be telling him where he should be?

Piss poor leadership

Joe_ Public

lawred2 wrote: »

Does he not have a PM who should be telling him there he should be?

Piss poor leadership

Yeah the same pm who would be up and bumbling about himself only he's too ill to move.

Donald Trump

Seth Brundle wrote: »

When the Health Secretary Matt Hancock ignores the WHO's advice for those with coronavirus and mixes with people at the opening London's Nightingale Hospital (where there's visibly little social distancing until the formal press conference) whilst repeatedly touching his face and reusing a tissue, why would the public think they should do any different?

https://twitter.com/JonJonesSnr/status/1246142911001042944?s=19

Jesus Christ. What a fucking <cannot-use-word-or-I'll-be-banned>

Seriously. In charge of health. FFS

lawred2

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yeah the same pm who would be up and bumbling about himself only he's too ill to move.

He's not too ill to send a cabinet instruction.

He's just so out of his depth he's either too afraid to do so or too incompetent to know that's what he should do..

S.M.B.

theological wrote: »

This is a tiny idiotic minority of people. The problem with this is they are going to ruin exercise opportunity for those who don't have gardens or countryside to walk in in central London or other large UK cities. As Matt Hancock said this morning it is disgraceful.

I'm stuck in a small apartment with a newborn baby but refuse to even go for a walk in my local park just so I'm not associated with all those sunbathing and playing frisbee.

Joe_ Public

lawred2 wrote: »

He's not too ill to send a cabinet instruction.

He's just so out of his depth he's either too afraid to do so or too incompetent to know that's what he should do..

I assume johnson doesnt see or spot anything untoward about it. Their view seems to be that a guy like Hancock is so indispensable to the war against the virus effort that it's worth the risk to his own health and of those he daily encounters too. People are increasingly asking questions. All this will come out in the wash eventually.

Any sightings of Cummings lately i wonder?

meeeeh

Aren't the instructions in UK to self isolate for a week if you live alone? I don't think it's some sort of preferential treatment.

Professor Moriarty

meeeeh wrote: »

Aren't the instructions in UK to self isolate for a week if you live alone? I don't think it's some sort of preferential treatment.

Why is it 7 days in Britain and 14 days in Ireland?

theological

S.M.B. wrote: »

I'm stuck in a small apartment with a newborn baby but refuse to even go for a walk in my local park just so I'm not associated with all those sunbathing and playing frisbee.

This isn't a good outcome.

It would also be terrible if foolish people like this ended up with the Government prohibiting exercise.

Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said the government could ban exercise outdoors if people flout lockdown rules.
After saying earlier that sunbathing is against lockdown rules, he told Andrew Marr that if people flout them “we might have to take further action”.
“I understand how difficult these measures are, of course I do. But the truth is the more people go out from home, the more the virus spreads,” he said.
“We’ve said because of the positive benefits to your physical and your mental health that it’s ok to exercise on your own or with members of your own household.
“But if the result of that is that too many people go out and flout the other rules because they say ‘well if I can exercise, then it’s fine for me to do other things’, then I’m afraid we will have to take action.
“My message is really clear, if you don’t want us to have to take the step to ban exercise of all forms outside of your own home then you’ve got to follow the rules.”

I would probably be of the mind that the government needs to be careful in how they approach this. Although this is enforced with legal penalty the lockdown still needs to be secured with the support of the public. A draconian knee jerk reaction to a tiny minority disobeying the rules could threaten the broad public support for these measures.

Enzokk

Matt Hancock is slowly losing all goodwill he built up with his return. People started questioning why he is back so early, the images of him touching his face and coughing and dripping snot all over the place after infection and now this,

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1246727579169632256?s=20

I guess he will justify it by saying his view of herd immunity, but this is just bald faced lies again from the government.

bilston

S.M.B. wrote: »

I'm stuck in a small apartment with a newborn baby but refuse to even go for a walk in my local park just so I'm not associated with all those sunbathing and playing frisbee.

Are in the UK or Ireland? If you are in the UK you are absolutely allowed to walk in the park.

If you are in Ireland as long as it is within 2kms of your house then you are fine. (I live in NI so I think that this is right).

You shouldn't suffer because of others.

I sympathise with the problem the UK govt faces with people flouting the restrictions, but punishing the vast vast vast majority of people who are adhering to the restrictions (and they are) is not a good outcome and will probably lead to more people flouting govt restrictions.

coastwatch

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why is it 7 days in Britain and 14 days in Ireland?

The guidance in the UK is,
Say at home & isolate for 7 days after the onset of symptoms in you.
or
Stay at home & isolate for 14 days after the onset of symptoms in someone else in the household.

The thinking must be that you are no longer capable of spreading the virus after 7 days.

The thinking here is that you need 10 days to clear symptoms and no longer be infectious, and so 14 days to be sure.

Seth Brundle

14 days is recommended by the WHO.
7 days is recommended by the UK, but I don't know or understand why.

Joe_ Public

You want to know where the ruling party is at, check the Mail. Now trying to scapegoat poor Jeremy Hunt for no better reason than he had the temerity it seems to call out the government's testing policy and call its herd immunity strategy for what it was.

https://twitter.com/qeensdale/status/1246757314947842049?s=20

lawred2

coastwatch wrote: »

The guidance in the UK is,
Say at home & isolate for 7 days after the onset of symptoms in you.
or
Stay at home & isolate for 14 days after the onset of symptoms in someone else in the household.

The thinking must be that you are no longer capable of spreading the virus after 7 days.

The thinking here is that you need 10 days to clear symptoms and no longer be infectious, and so 14 days to be sure.

Their thinking is irrelevant really. Their thinking has already been proven to be entirely ideology motivated and so science free that they had to do an entire 180 about turn on it.

I'm not sure why this particular but of thinking deserves any more credence than their already defunct erroneous thinking got..

millb

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#confirmed-covid-19-deaths-by-country

coastwatch

Seth Brundle wrote: »

14 days is recommended by the WHO.
7 days is recommended by the UK, but I don't know or understand why.

To be clear, the UK advice is 7 days isolation, but continue to isolate if you still have a high temperature, until temperature returns to normal. I think this is the case currently with Boris.

You dont have to continue to isolate if you still have just a cough, which was case with Matt Hancock, seen opening the new hospital in London on Friday.

lawred2

coastwatch wrote: »

To be clear, the UK advice is 7 days isolation, but contiue to isolate if you still have a high temperature, until temperature returns to normal. I think this is the case currently with Boris.

You dont have to continue to isolate if you still have just a cough, which was case with Matt Hancock, seen opening the new hospital in London on Friday.

Just a cough?

Would have thought coughing and sniffling was the primary means to spread this virus.

Why are the UK thinking differently?

Harry Palmr

Things are bad when Piers Morgan is starting to make sense

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1246674089592356866

and this sure isn't right (from guardian)

The chief medical officer for Scotland, Catherine Calderwood, is now facing calls to resign after she appeared to flaunt her own advice and visited her coastal second home with her family.

Scottish Labour health spokesperson Monica Lennon said:

The first minister and her top team must lead by example during this crisis which continues to take lives on a daily basis. The message that people should stay at home to save lives and protect the NHS is the right one.

The chief medical officer delivers that instruction on behalf of the government but has failed to follow her own advice. Her actions have undermined Scotland’s pandemic response and her own credibility. Unfortunately, it means she cannot and should not continue in her role. Her position as CMO has become untenable.

Joe_ Public

I dislike and will continue to dislike Piers Morgan forever but undeniable he has had a proper handle on the situation from the off.

coastwatch

lawred2 wrote: »

Just a cough?

Would have thought coughing and sniffling was the primary means to spread this virus.

Why are the UK thinking differently?

I'm assuming their experts believe a lingering cough after 7 days does not pose a risk of infection because the person is then free of virus, which is probably a risky approach, compared to the WHO guidelines of 14 days isolation, "just to be sure".

theological

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Things are bad when Piers Morgan is starting to make sense

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1246674089592356866

and this sure isn't right (from guardian)

I actually get Lord Sugar's point about Essex and open fields. I live on the edge of the metropolitan green belt and you can walk through open fields and not see a person in sight probably because a lot of people don't use Ordinance Survey marked walking routes and bridleways even on the edge of London. He's also right that this would be harmless.

But you have to base policy on the most densely populated areas and you can't really say this policy is special for this area because that leads to inequality.

I do greatly greatly sympathise with people who live in apartment blocks who need to use public spaces like parks only to find they are threatened by people flouting the rules. I hope the government don't reach for excessively banning exercise. They will lose public support this way.

Rather they should be encouraging police to actually enforce the measures even if that means fining three thousand people in a park.