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Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

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    #332
    zeebre12
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭zeebre12


    A man on Joe Duffy was saying that he doesn't think the Leaving Cert will go ahead at all and everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference. Then at the end of first year in college there will be an exam to cull some students from the course. Could something like this happen?


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    #333
    killbillvol2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭killbillvol2


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    A man on Joe Duffy was saying that he doesn't think the Leaving Cert will go ahead at all and everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference. Then at the end of first year in college there will be an exam to cull some students from the course. Could something like this happen?

    Would you do us all a favour and stop repeating stupid rumours?


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    #334
    KathleenGrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭KathleenGrant


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    A man on Joe Duffy was saying that he doesn't think the Leaving Cert will go ahead at all and everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference. Then at the end of first year in college there will be an exam to cull some students from the course. Could something like this happen?

    Not a chance in hell.


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    #335
    zeebre12
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭zeebre12


    KathleenGrant wrote: »
    Not a chance in hell.

    What happens then if the Leaving doesn't go ahead like in England with A Levels?


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    #336
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    And don't take heed of what "Mary from Drimnagh" has to say to Joe for the next few months.


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    #337
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    A man on Joe Duffy ...
    Sorry, you lost me at that point.
    zeebre12 wrote: »
    What happens then if the Leaving doesn't go ahead like in England with A Levels?
    Ok, in fairness, it's a valid question.

    Worst case scenario: LC is completely cancelled (and I stress that I don't think that's the likely scenario just yet.)

    How could this issue be handled?

    Thoughts, people?


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    #338
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    A man on Joe Duffy was saying that he doesn't think the Leaving Cert will go ahead at all and everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference. Then at the end of first year in college there will be an exam to cull some students from the course. Could something like this happen?

    I think the fact that he was on Joe Duffy says it all.


    No, I don't think it could happen. It's grand taking in hundreds of students if the courses are Arts or Business and don't require much beyond lecture halls and rooms for tutorials. Very different scenario if it's science or engineering or IT where there is a limited amount of space and equipment in labs.

    Also there would be nothing to stop everyone going on the CAO when it reopens in May and everyone putting down Medicine or Dentistry or whatever high points courses are in demand. It would decimate the ITs as the attraction to some students of the universities would mean they wouldn't apply for an IT unless it had a very specific course.

    There just wouldn't be enough facilities to accommodate the students on some courses. You would also have a situation that if you had an exam and a mass cull at the end of first year where some didn't get in, simply because there were such a high number of first years, where do all those students go? They wouldn't have a Leaving Cert to reapply to the CAO with the following year's intake.


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    #339
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    What happens then if the Leaving doesn't go ahead like in England with A Levels?

    England is different. When students apply for college places, they are applying with predicted grades from their schools and they are made a provisional offer. We have no such system in place.


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    #340
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭bren2001


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    A man on Joe Duffy was saying that he doesn't think the Leaving Cert will go ahead at all and everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference. Then at the end of first year in college there will be an exam to cull some students from the course. Could something like this happen?

    There wouldn't be the capacity in every course to allow everyone have their first preference. There are resource limits.


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    #341
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,931 ✭✭✭Rosita


    zeebre12 wrote: »

    everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference.

    Could something like this happen?

    It's hard to see how it could happen as the whole reason for a points-race in the first place is that in many courses there are more applicants than there are places. If this loaves-and-fishes trick could be done the LC would be irrelevant.


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    #342
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,931 ✭✭✭Rosita


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Sorry, you lost me at that point.

    Ok, in fairness, it's a valid question.

    Worst case scenario: LC is completely cancelled (and I stress that I don't think that's the likely scenario just yet.)

    How could this issue be handled?

    Thoughts, people?

    Colleges/Unis could do their own entrance exams. The LC is only circumstantially connected to college courses and not an innate part of their system. The take in plenty of people who don't do the LC.


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    #343
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Rosita wrote: »
    Colleges/Unis could do their own entrance exams. The LC is only circumstantially connected to college courses and not an innate part of their system. The take in plenty of people who don't do the LC.

    That's true, and in fact for many years here there was the option of the Matric, first as the only option and then in later years as in effect a "second chance" on the LC (though as the syllabus was quite different it didn't really work for many people in that respect).

    But that option really only pushes the responsibility for gathering large numbers of people into an exam hall down the road from the SEC to the colleges, and creates more stress and uncertainty for students. Nor does it deal with the people whose 1st. / 2nd. / 3rd. choices are in different colleges ... do they have to do three exams, will Trinity accept results from IT Carlow or vice versa?

    Messy, couldn't see it being an option if I'm honest.


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    #344
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    A man on Joe Duffy was saying that he doesn't think the Leaving Cert will go ahead at all and everyone who has filled out a CAO will be given their first preference. Then at the end of first year in college there will be an exam to cull some students from the course. Could something like this happen?

    Farcial idea, what about the thousands of students including myself who plan to study abroad?


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    #345
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Could they not have just cut out the Oral part of the languages and had the full marks for the paper exam.

    Everyone getting 100% is a pure cop out and totally unfair to those who have studied to get top marks .


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    #346
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,176 ✭✭✭✭km79


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Could they not have just cut out the Oral part of the languages and had the full marks for the paper exam.

    Everyone getting 100% is a pure cop out and totally unfair to those who have studied to get top marks .

    A valid point to be fair
    Not sure why ?


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    #347
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,931 ✭✭✭Rosita


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Could they not have just cut out the Oral part of the languages and had the full marks for the paper exam.

    Everyone getting 100% is a pure cop out and totally unfair to those who have studied to get top marks .

    But does it not amount to the same thing as scrapping it in one sense - everyone starts at the same place as would have happened had the oral been scrapped?

    To my mind it actually favours the very strong students as they'll be ones able to deliver a written paper of commensurate quality.

    For some moving from a H2 to a H1 will be far more significant than someone who goes from an O7 to an O5 because of it.


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    #348
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭Treppen


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Could they not have just cut out the Oral part of the languages and had the full marks for the paper exam.

    Everyone getting 100% is a pure cop out and totally unfair to those who have studied to get top marks .

    It's all relative.
    Generally I find those who get high marks in the written get the high marks in the oral/practical.

    Oral with 40% gets scraped, then the remaining 60% just becomes a defacto 100%.

    Anyone think the weighting in the written will change significantly? E.g. more marks awarded for difficult questions.


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    #349
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,931 ✭✭✭Rosita


    randylonghorn wrote: »

    But that option really only pushes the responsibility for gathering large numbers of people into an exam hall down the road from the SEC to the colleges

    Of course it does, but if in say September we are still saying that students cannot gather in large numbers in an exam hall (to do university aptitude test) then the LC will not have taken place. So whatever challenges might be presented for colleges in securing an intake for the coming year they will be forced to get creative.

    You'll have the person who applies to different colleges and you'll have those who will want to study abroad. But there are many people who will lose out in every area because of the current situation. There is no guarantee that students will not be among them.


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    #350
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Scrapping orals and practicals is not ideal as some students excel at those elements instead of written assessments. But the current situation favours those who do more subjects with a practical/oral over those who don't, when it comes to points.

    Either way I think it's an impossible task to sort this to everyone's satisfaction at such short notice.


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    #351
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Rosita wrote: »
    So whatever challenges might be presented for colleges in securing an intake for the coming year they will be forced to get creative.
    Ofc it does, and that's pretty much why I posed the question, albeit speculatively, to see if any of the creative minds in here could come up with a brainwave.

    It wasn't a trick question, I don't have an answer either ... every scenario I come up with I promptly knock seventeen holes in it
    Susan Quiet Stool wrote: »
    Either way I think it's an impossible task to sort this to everyone's satisfaction at such short notice.
    Yep.


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    #352
    learner161
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭learner161


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Sorry, you lost me at that point.

    Ok, in fairness, it's a valid question.

    Worst case scenario: LC is completely cancelled (and I stress that I don't think that's the likely scenario just yet.)

    How could this issue be handled?

    Thoughts, people?

    Delay college by a month and carry out the exams end of August maybe slightly spread them out?


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    #353
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Ofc it does, and that's pretty much why I posed the question, albeit speculatively, to see if any of the creative minds in here could come up with a brainwave.

    It wasn't a trick question, I don't have an answer either ... every scenario I come up with I promptly knock seventeen holes in it!

    One of the huge benefits of the CAO/Leaving Cert system despite its faults, is the anonymity. A student from the most disadvantaged, poorest background can do a course in Trinity if they can get the points. People are not getting into college because of their address, or because of what their parents earn or who their parents know. In a small country where everyone knows everyone and pull is used in a lot of facets of life, the Leaving Cert is a great leveller.

    Even for that reason alone, they should pull out all the stops to get it across the line in some shape or other and retain its integrity.

    China today for the first day since this whole thing started reported no new cases of C19. There are new cases but all have come in on foreign flights. Anyone flying into Beijing is now required to go into quarantine for 14 days. So in another week or two they should be out of the woods more or less. That is with a lockdown since 22 January.

    So going on a two month timescale to hit the peak and let it subside we could be looking at mid May. The Leaving Cert could still run in some format even if it delayed by a couple of weeks.


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    #354
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    learner161 wrote: »
    Delay college by a month and carry out the exams end of August maybe slightly spread them out?
    Oh, I know, those would be the "not worst case" scenarios.

    I simply posed the question, given that it had been partly raised already: any ideas for a contingency plan in the worst case scenario?


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    #355
    zero_
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭zero_


    Do you reckon this will be sorted out by September?

    Boris has cancelled A levels.

    There won't be a leaving cert this year.


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    #356
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    zero_ wrote: »
    There won't be a leaving cert this year.

    Unless you have a verified source for this, please refrain from this sort of speculation, very unhelpful for all involved.


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    #357
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,605 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    zero_ wrote: »
    Do you reckon this will be sorted out by September?

    Boris has cancelled A levels.

    There won't be a leaving cert this year.

    You're basing your opinion on what Boris is doing :pac::pac:

    I'm confident the leaving will go ahead.


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    #358
    TTLF
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭TTLF
    save the trouble and jazz it up


    Any ideas when they DEP of ED will state schools are going to remain closed? They can't leave it until the Sunday night obviously lol


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    #359
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,176 ✭✭✭✭km79


    TTLF wrote: »
    Any ideas when they DEP of ED will state schools are going to remain closed? They can't leave it until the Sunday night obviously lol

    ?
    All schools are closed next week


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    #360
    alroley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭alroley


    TTLF wrote: »
    Any ideas when they DEP of ED will state schools are going to remain closed? They can't leave it until the Sunday night obviously lol

    Joe McHugh said on RTE news that it would be announced within the next few days - he won't leave it until right before the 29th so people can plan.


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    #361
    CymbaltaMan
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭CymbaltaMan


    TTLF wrote: »
    Any ideas when they DEP of ED will state schools are going to remain closed? They can't leave it until the Sunday night obviously lol

    You'll be looking realistically - Months of closure! :eek::pac::eek:


This discussion has been closed.
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