Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

ShamoBuc

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

If the Leaving Cert does go ahead, the 60% required for primary school teaching has just gotten easier for the students this year.

Go do arts and hibernia when you're done.

They can easily change future applications from leaving cert 2020 to need a 70% grade.

Rosita

ShamoBuc wrote: »

How would that work though. July provision for example. Parents, and teachers have family holidays booked and paid for etc would a teacher that gives courses eg gaeltachts not go. Summer camps around the country eg Cúl Camps would have to be cancelled.
Not sure of the feasabitiy.

The most likely scenario is that there will be no Gaeltacht, no holidays nor no cúl camps. And there'll be no Primary school in July either. Some people seem to think that Covid-19 will be a nine-day wonder. They have another think coming.

zeebre12

Rosita wrote: »

The most likely scenario is that there will be no Gaeltacht, no holidays nor no cúl camps. And there'll be no Primary school in July either. Some people seem to think that Covid-19 will be a nine-day wonder. They have another think coming.

So they are going to pay primary teachers from now until the end of June? So no more school until September then?

randylonghorn

Agreed, Rosita.

Lc2020 wrote: »

Of course there isn't but this is a smack in the face to students who have been working tirelessly in preparation for these exams. A mass injustice that I nor my colleagues will not stand for.

Well, for God's sake don't organise a protest!!

Look, I'm not sure it's the best they could have done by way of solutions either, but realistically, everyone is running against the storm trying to come up with solutions.

You can pretty much guarantee they won't be perfect ones.

Yesterday, CSSE at Johns Hopkins have updated their stats to show that the death toll from COVID-19 has now exceeded the number of cases of SARS recorded over ~18 months during the SARS epidemic.

That's the context for all this. Tbh, I still can barely get my head around that, and I have enough letters after my name (when I can be arsed to use them) to suggest that I'm not a total moron.

ShamoBuc

Having primary go back for a month in July would create more problems than it would solve. As mentioned earlier, kids being kept in for so long and then when things are fine again, July, send them to school instead of to play. The summer of 2020 will not be just August for kids.
Education wise, they will survive until September.

mirrorwall14

I think today’s announcement is also an acknowledgment that there is no way schools reopen on the 29th

machiavellianme

pawdee wrote: »

100% to all students in oral exams? I think they should award all students the AVERAGE mark obtained over the previous say 3 years. Imagine?

Thickos = Thrilled

Swots* = Apoplectic


*parents frothing at the mouth on the phone to school and Dept of Education. Hilarious.

Could they not have done them over a video call?
The technology exists and its an oral so you can't really cheat it with notes etc.
It screws all mature/deferred students seeking a college place because this year's base line will be a few percent higher.

ShamoBuc

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I think today’s announcement is also an acknowledgment that there is no way schools reopen on the 29th

That's a given really. Even the 20th April is not looking good, although things might have changed considerably by then.

Rosita

zeebre12 wrote: »

So they are going to pay primary teachers from now until the end of June? So no more school until September then?

I don't know anything about people getting paid. They'll have whatever contractual arrangements they'll have and that's what'll decide that.

I would be surprised if there is school (i.e. mass gatherings) before September.

TheValeyard

ShamoBuc wrote: »

That's a given really. Even the 20th April is not looking good, although things might have changed considerably by then.

If teaching remotely does not work out as intended, the option should there for teachers to switch over to help the HSE with the crisis.

https://www.thejournal.ie/simon-harris-paid-hse-jobs-covid-19-5051077-Mar2020/

Rosita

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I think today’s announcement is also an acknowledgment that there is no way schools reopen on the 29th

I think today's announcement was in fact an acknowledgement that they wouldn't open on April 20th. The Orals could easily have begun on that date.

I doubt that anyone expected schools to go back on 29th March with a natural two-week break so close to provide breathing space. The only reason that date was mentioned was because all public buildings were being closed until then too.

TheValeyard

Rosita wrote: »

I think today's announcement was in fact an acknowledgement that they wouldn't open on April 20th. The Orals could easily have begun on that date.

I doubt that anyone expected schools to go back on 29th March with a natural two-week break so close to provide breathing space. The only reason that date was mentioned was because all public buildings were being closed until then too.

Id doubt were back on April 20th, and I think the department is thinking the same way.

ShamoBuc

TheValeyard wrote: »

If teaching remotely does not work out as intended, the option should there for teachers to switch over to help the HSE with the crisis.

https://www.thejournal.ie/simon-harris-paid-hse-jobs-covid-19-5051077-Mar2020/

I know of teachers -who are in a position to- that done it already. Some of the 24000 were teachers.

rainbowtrout

machiavellianme wrote: »

Could they not have done them over a video call?
The technology exists and its an oral so you can't really cheat it with notes etc.
It screws all mature/deferred students seeking a college place because this year's base line will be a few percent higher.

Exams are graded on a curve, so while everyone might score 40%, it might be incredibly hard to score above say 60% once the marking scheme is applied.

There are a whole load of issues at play, I know when the Irish examiner called our school two weeks ago that he/she suggested that as a contingency that students could be brought into school one by one so they meet nobody etc to do their oral. Some parents will not agree to that at all. And some principals had contacted the SEC and said they would not let an examiner through the door - this was before the shut down.

Those people would still want to be examined but not want to attend the exam in whatever circumstances it was provided. It would be easy to do a call on Skype and ignoring any identification issues (let's assume they had to hold up their passport as identification before they start), you could easily be sitting at a laptop and have a whole load of notes or key words and phrases pinned up on the wall behind the laptop, it could never be proved that you had them there.

This solution is far from ideal, but it's much the same as saying we are scrapping the oral and the written exam will be 100%. If that had been announced people would have had their pitchforks out. This way every starts at the same base mark.

It's not just orals, the same has happened for LC Music and JC Music and Home Ec

rainbowtrout

Gerry T wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but are their many that don't do languages, I guess Dyslexic students below a certain level would have a waiver but are we talking about many others ?
Plus Dyslexic students are disadvantaged in other areas, such as the time it takes them to read a paper (question), this isn't factored in.

There are loads that don't do languages. None of the ITs require a foreign language and neither does UL. Many of the NUI colleges have dropped the requirement for a foreign languages from science and engineering courses.

I would say that only half of our LC year take a foreign language. Same with our fifth years.

TheDriver

Rosita wrote: »

I think today's announcement was in fact an acknowledgement that they wouldn't open on April 20th. The Orals could easily have begun on that date.

I doubt that anyone expected schools to go back on 29th March with a natural two-week break so close to provide breathing space. The only reason that date was mentioned was because all public buildings were being closed until then too.

It's difficult to deal with doubt. We may open on 20th April or 27th April or following week but the orals take so much planning etc, it would then be on top of other subjects.

Millem

I don’t understand how they will implement “the curve” in subjects where as of today students have achieved 45% or 50%!

In my own subject as of today you now do not need to sit the exam or submit a project and you have passed! That is a joke.

Rosita

LuasSimon wrote: »

Is it right that teachers are getting full pay for all this leave without doing anything in some cases ?

You probably should be on a philosophy forum for this one. What is right? What is wrong? Indeed.

TheValeyard

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I know of teachers -who are in a position to- that done it already. Some of the 24000 were teachers.

How did it work?

Lc2020

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Exams are graded on a curve, so while everyone might score 40%, it might be incredibly hard to score above say 60% once the marking scheme is applied.
Ec

And? Students getting H1s in languages without any form of assessment of their speaking ability is a farce.

Rosita

TheDriver wrote: »

It's difficult to deal with doubt. We may open on 20th April or 27th April or following week but the orals take so much planning etc, it would then be on top of other subjects.

The major work on the Orals was done - appointing of examiners, distribution of materials, and holding of conferences. Actually holding them in a school requires minimal enough adjustment. And students would have been prepared by now too. If they were confident the schools would open in April they'd have had them then.

ShamoBuc

TheValeyard wrote: »

How did it work?

Emailed the hse, and took it from there. They are waiting on call backs. It's not just transfering over for a new job, you can volunteer,
Harris said...We’ll be offering people contracts of at least three-months duration. And on top of that, of course, there’d be many thousands volunteering

ShamoBuc

Lc2020 wrote: »

And? Students getting H1s in languages without any form of assessment of their speaking ability is a farce.

True. But you'd have to be pretty good at a language to get the balance of 60% to a H1 level, dont you think?

Lc2020

ShamoBuc wrote: »

True. But you'd have to be pretty good at a language to get the balance of 60% to a H1 level, dont you think?

Not in the likes of Irish where rote learning will get you your H1

ShamoBuc

Lc2020 wrote: »

Not in the likes of Irish where rote learning will get you your H1

Rote learning will only get you so far, especially for the aural, 10%.

Rosita

Lc2020 wrote: »

And? Students getting H1s in languages without any form of assessment of their speaking ability is a farce.

In theory this makes sense. In reality someone who gets a H1 will be getting full marks or thereabouts in the Orals. The problem here will not be the H1s.

The problem might be the H4s which should be H6s - those who are quite good at the langyage but all those Sraith Pictiúir are just a little too much hassle to be studying so they'll never hit paydirt in the Oral as they are potentially academically capable.

There are no flukey H1s.

political analyst

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Rote learning will only get you so far, especially for the aural, 10%.

Nevertheless, I think that, generally, speaking a language is more difficult than writing it because it's easier to remember something you write than it is to remember something you say.

Rosita

political analyst wrote: »

Nevertheless, I think that, generally, speaking a language is more difficult than writing it because it's easier to remember something you write than it is to remember something you say.

Generally yes, speaking a language is more difficult. But in the LC the oral exam is only 15 minutes. The HL written paper (including aural) is nearly five hours and far more unpredictable than an oral exam. What they get in the written paper they will earn.

jimmytwotimes 2013

ShamoBuc wrote: »

They can easily change future applications from leaving cert 2020 to need a 70% grade.

Shud be a simple discrimination case that one

rainbowtrout

Lc2020 wrote: »

And? Students getting H1s in languages without any form of assessment of their speaking ability is a farce.

If you are awarded a H1 in Irish in August or whenever the results are released are you going to hand it back and go 'my results are a farce, I don't want this, please give me a H5'. I doubt it.


This situation is unprecedented. Leaving Cert is used now primarily to as a method of gaining college entry. If you decide to go stacking shelves in the local supermarket when you finish school they will not care what your grade in Irish or French is or decide that your H2 in OL French is a farce because you didn't sit an oral.

Similarly, if you get a H1 in a language this summer without sitting the oral, then you will probably have done a very good written paper. While it doesn't indicate what your oral ability it, but it does indicate that you probably have a good grasp of the language overall. Colleges don't need to get down to the nitty gritty of grades in individual subjects, they need to know that you have the general aptitude for the course you are entering.