Working From Home Megathread

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293262#Comment_119293262

Its not that I don’t see the difference, it’s that if you are that worried about passing it on, how do you function in a society where there are huge numbers of Covid infections daily?

I think it’s crap to use ur excuse of catching Covid as a reason for staying out of the office nowadays, and if you are worried about catching it there, then interacting normally with people outside the office must be frightening.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293509#Comment_119293509

I literally just explained how I get on. Is there some activity that you like that I "can't" do and you can't fathom how someone else lives differently to you or something?

I'm using no excuse because I haven't had any request or suggestion that I should go to the office. And once again you can't seem to tell the difference between spending a workday in a building of strangers likely coming from up to 80km in different directions and spending 2 minutes in a shop. One more time, if that's what you're somehow taking from what I'm saying then good for you, keep on trucking.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293528#Comment_119293528

And once again, if you are worried about catching Covid in your office, how the hell do you go about your daily life? Do you worry about catching it from family members, door handles, utensils etc, any surface that another person could touch or sneeze on. I understand that degree of paranoia pre-vaccine/omicrone, but using fears of passing it to your compromised parents as a “reason” for not going to an office either makes you ill informed of the risks a spread all around you, paranoid, or just using it as a excuse.

As I said, there are many benefits to wfh which people should be focused on, if one of them is Covid, then you are a pity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293640#Comment_119293640

I don't worry about catching Covid in my office. Because the company I work for is sensible.

I live alone so if someone is licking my utensils then covid is the least of my concerns. I've never in my life been the kind of person who sits on the ground or touches random surfaces in public so again, no worries there.

I can't think of anywhere I've been lately aside from my own house and car that doesn't have automatic doors. Well there's my parents' house but the back door is usually sitting open at the time of day I'd be visiting.

If you can't see a difference between 2 minutes in a shop and 7+ hours in an office with far more people then you are a pity.

moycullen14

I wasn't trying to rehash the pro/anti WFH arguments. TBH, they've been done to death here (and elsewhere). I was wondering if peoples attitudes to WFH have changed - in either direction?

I was a huge advocate for WFH but find I am changing my mind. I do think, though, that it is most likely the company/work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293769#Comment_119293769

Could be. A few months back I was feeling **** and realised it was partly down to work. It was the content rather than the environment though. Had a word with manager and another guy above me in a similar role and couple of little changes were made, I happened to have a lovely holiday coming (went to F1 in Italy, 6 foot 2 bearded fat **** driving a Fiat 500 convertible in the mountains, the image made me smile the entire time and F1 was good fun despite the weather) and since the little changes and a holiday I'll likely think about every day for the rest of my life the last couple of months has been a lot easier again.

TBH when ya consider how much many people move jobs these days there's clearly plenty of dissatisfaction with work, assuming it's down to WFH is a bit of a jump. It may well be for you, different strokes and all that. I miss the craic I had in my first proper job but that was down to the specific people. We were similar age, plenty of similar interests (even if it was only 2 or 3 of us on certain things), thick skins all around and it's hard to do justice to how supportive and helpful everyone was but now I'm in my mid-thirties so not despising co-workers is likely the best I'll ever get again.🤣

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293769#Comment_119293769

I'm finding myself more disillusioned with the office if anything. I was kinda looking forward to going back for a day a week but the drawbacks are just too much. The commute in the evening leaves me really tired and drained and I get the bus, I'm not even driving. When I work from home I would go for runs or walks after work (especially now when the weather is nice). When in the office, I'm so drained from the commute that I'm fighting off the urge to nap when I get home.

The past 2 times I was in the office I spent ages waiting on a bus home because so many are cancelled or full by the time they get to me. The buses in the morning aren't as bad but they are generally delayed so I spend at least 15 minutes in the morning waiting on the bus at the stop.

While it is nice seeing people in the office, our office is still pretty quiet and there aren't many in so it kinda defeats the purpose of going into see people when most aren't there. Saying that, you still end up spending a lot of your day chatting to people or distracted with stuff that you wouldn't if you are working from home. Normally, I wouldn't mind it as much but when you are busy like I have been lately it puts you under more pressure on the other days to make up lost time. Then there was the day someone spent 3 hours on a call in which they had to talk quite a bit. Not their fault, it happens but I found it very hard to concentrate the entire time they were on the call.

Most days I have been in the office, at least once I have said to myself 'I should have just worked from home today'.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293825#Comment_119293825

That's a really lovely story.

Little changes can make a huge difference. Glad you had people to support you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295179#Comment_119295179

Both people said they'd expected me to pipe up sooner as it happens. 🤣 They were (and kinda are) dealing with issues stemming from the same cause I was. The holiday was just a happy coincidence that worked out well and I'd decided on at pretty short notice. And don't get me wrong, I'd be surprised if I get to the end of the year without feeling sick of it again but that's just the case in the field I'm in. 😅 For me at least.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295242#Comment_119295242

They got your back though. Trust is a huge thing in a job (or in any other part of life).

An example yesterday, I'm a line manager. Got asked if it's okay to take an hour off to see the doctor.

I was amused at first with the question, then I realised they were serious! Don't ask my permission, go! Heads up obviously.

Now, on the other hand if this was to happen every second day (don't need to know their medical conditions but will be escalated) that's a different story.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293321#Comment_119293321

Am that soldier.

It's been grand. Really.

Weird, sure, compared to "normal", but these aren't normal times. Day 1, met someone from HR, met my boss, a couple of others in the business unit, and a couple of others in the building when I was given the grand tour. Feck all people around. I've been working two days a week in the office since, 3 from home, and I think it took me a month before I'd met everyone on my team in person, but I'd met them all over Zoom in the first couple of days.

Likewise, Zoom for anyone else I needed to chat with has been the order of the day. As someone who's shite with remembering names and faces, it's been great mostly "meeting" over Zoom, where there name is right there in front of their face. The only downside is a slight one, not having regular or spontaneous social things after work, which I think is where you really get to know people, but that's far outstripped by the positives - far fewer timewasting chats on a Monday about that local sports team/English premiership, fewer pointless meetings that drift off topic, no commute 60% of the time.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295843#Comment_119295843

One thing I would say is don't be afraid to be a bit more informal and social when in chat and IMs with people on your team. Obviously not to the point of inappropriateness but don't be afraid of just talking about shite on a call with someone like you would if they were in the canteen. Some of the people I get on with best on my team are people I have only met in person once or twice. We work on a lot of projects together though so have lots of IMs, emails and calls together. Our team is very informal about this stuff so even with calls with my manager or project managers we would go off topic and talk about non work stuff and a bit of shíte talking.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293102#Comment_119293102

These calls are supposed to take the place of face to face meetings, having your camera on shows you are engaging with the call (like you would in person) rather than not paying attention or doing something else. If you are in a face to face meeting and you arent speaking you dont step behind a screen to hide yourself why would you on a video conference?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119251484#Comment_119251484

Thats your situation, very few people are in the same boat however, and im sure you had to take the same precautions when there were seasonal flus etc.

And how is working if you are sick good for everyone?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297128#Comment_119297128

Seriously? In the before times, every office had the martyr. "It's only a headcold, nothing to worry about, I'm too busy to take a - achoo! - a sick day." Three days later, half the office is off sick. I've a relative who caught covid right back at the start from exactly that, someone coming back into the office straight from holidays, coughing and spluttering. Gave covid to half the office. But it was "only a cold."

Working from home when I'm sick is my choice and I'd never expect it from a staff member. But if all I have symptom-wise is headcold symptoms and a sore throat, and am feeling well enough to work, why wouldn't I? Yes, I'll be slower than normal and might take more/longer breaks, but what's the alternative - I can't go out if I'm sick, and there's only so many box sets you can watch. Keeping on top of things means I don't have a huge pile of work waiting for me when I get back.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297898#Comment_119297898

You must attend different kinds of meetings to me, if someone whipped out a laptop and started working on something else while in a meeting it would probably be the last meeting they would attend!

Patsy167

The Netherlands is on the cusp of becoming the world's first country to make work from home a legal right. 

Bloomberg reports the remote working bill received approval by the lower house of the bicameral parliament on Tuesday. The proposal is waiting for a stamp of approval from the Dutch senate before its law. 

Current Dutch law states employers may reject workers' requests for remote work without reason. The new proposal fixes that and forces employers to give a reason for denial.

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/dutch-house-greenlights-work-home-legal-right

KJK1LL3R

Hi guys, would appreciate some thoughts on this please if you wouldn't mind:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058255613/deciding-on-2-days-per-week-to-work-from-home#latest

Twitter announced they are closing/reducing office space at locations all over the world as they look to reduce costs and remote working makes this feasible.

Dublin is included in this

https://www.independent.ie/business/world/twitter-cuts-back-on-office-space-in-drive-to-cut-costs-41872656.html

Young_gunner

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/remote-working-in-recession-5825295-Aug2022/

good read

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/woman-who-complained-of-discrimination-against-irish-prison-service-over-not-being-allowed-to-work-from-home-awarded-55000-41950896.html

Irish prison service loses at WRC for denying WFH request during covid for staff member with underlying health condition

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552703#Comment_119552703

Likely needs to be medically retired: people who have acute cardiac events are not typically suitable for prison work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552790#Comment_119552790

Her doctor would disagree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552790#Comment_119552790

Not everyone who works for the service is working with prisoners, plenty of admin & support staff who who are entirely office based.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553081#Comment_119553081

Her doctor's opinion is that she is only suitable for off-site work.

What really counts, though, is the opinion the Chief Medical Officer.

Someone who has been on sick leave since February is unlikely to return to work.

Cluedo Monopoly

My company had a review of WFH and extended the option until April 2023 (next review).

You basically have the option to work from home or the office (hotdesk) - whatever you like. They reckon 75% will opt to work from home at least 4 days a week. No mandatory days.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553145#Comment_119553145

What really counts, though, is the opinion the Chief Medical Officer.

Which they never sought, among other things, hence they lost the case and have to fork over a substantial sum

Someone who has been on sick leave since February is unlikely to return to work

Did you even read the article?

In February 2020, she had an acute cardiac event at work and requested permission to work from home and was refused three times in March and April, 2020.

In April 2020, she submitted a “fit to return to work from home" certificate deemed unacceptable by the prison. Her GP had written that Ms O'Connor "is fit to work but not on site at Cork Prison".

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553188#Comment_119553188

Interesting. Have ye a big office/many staff? Will it be worth the company's while keeping the building it currently has, or will they downsize, maybe eventually go fully remote?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553213#Comment_119553213

Paragraph 3 is very clear: .... is on sick leave from the service since February, 2020.

That's after she had 3 weeks of sick leave in 2019 as well.

She doesn't sound like she has adequate health to be in the public service.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553404#Comment_119553404

Thats some bonkers logic lol. You've come out with some prize chestnuts over the years but thats up there with the best of them

And again, her Doctor disagrees when he provided a return to work cert.

More importantly the WRC disagrees

Its also important to note that she remained on sick leave as her employer would not allow her to come off it by rejecting her return to work cert

Mrs OBumble

I don't think you understand the fitness for service requirements which apply to public servants.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554437#Comment_119554437

It would seem the prison service certainly didn't as they lost the case for discrimination and had to pay Ms O'Connor €55,000 "as compensation for the effects of this discrimination" 🤷‍♀️

Unless you are saying the WRC were wrong in their judgement in which case I'd ask you to outline, from a legal perspective, how that would be.

Not your usual makey-uppey silliness, actual legal justification as to why the WRC decided wrongly

Sunny Disposition

Spoke to a chap yesterday who is in the civil service. He said they have been told that they have to work a minimum of one day a week in their office, but can work anywhere they want, including the office, for the other four.

I was surprised that the civil service are being so progressive about it. 80% of work being done remotely really means you can live anywhere you want. There's a certain amount of flexibility with time as well, so if you had to do a long commute one day a week you could start late, finish early, and make up the time over the other four days.

Again, this is a negative for city centres, but great for rural/suburban areas. Interesting times.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553230#Comment_119553230

Company already downsized the office space and yet we have more employees than pre Covid. There isn't near enough room if everyone came in but we do have company days off site in hotels which can be fun.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558237#Comment_119558237

I've had a few things for my employees since we closed the office, but they were all purely social. Are the company days in hotels when you all come in and do work, or just come in and have meetings there? The hotels are probably glad to provide the room for ye, I presume the company pays for your lunch there, teas, coffees etc. It'd be a good boost for them on a Monday or Tuesday for example.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558338#Comment_119558338

All staff meetings and breakout meetings. The social events have increased significantly since the start of summer too. The hotel day events are usually a half day event with lunch. Some teams go into the office for 1 set day a month too. WFH is working really really well. To be fair the culture in our place does not allow for micro managers, collaboration and flexibility is encouraged from the top.

adelcrowsmel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558171#Comment_119558171

Unfortunately this policy only seems to be in the minority of departments...the majority of civil servants are being offered far less than this. The majority seem to be asking staff to attend the office at least 2/3 days and local authorities even worse with just 1 day at home being offered in most places that I have heard of. Personally I've been asked to attend 2 days a week even though my job can be done 100% remotely and is not public facing etc...I'm being asked to come sit in an empty office most days!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295843#Comment_119295843

I'm a line manager too. As long as the KPIs are met, my reports can spend the day on the golf course if they like.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558514#Comment_119558514

In some ways I'm a bit of a dinosaur, never fully got my head out of construction sector, wtf is a breakout meeting??:)

I robbed this from YLYL and it fits perfectly in here :)

Patsy167

Interesting enough read this...

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0902/1320193-will-employees-return-to-the-office-as-home-bills-soar/

I suspect that there are few employees who have commuting costs so low or home heating bills so high that would make such a move viable.

I only live 10 minutes away form the office(by car) but the savings on home electricity are insignificant.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559128#Comment_119559128

Breakout meetings are just smaller meetings. So we might have the staff meeting first then smaller meetings for project teams or management or role based.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558338#Comment_119558338

Hotels do not give meeting rooms for free: they need to be hired if you want one guaranteed for your use.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566569#Comment_119566569

If you bring a crowd of people and pay for lunch for them most hotels would give you the meeting space for free early in the week. I should know given that I do it every month, have done it in three hotels in Belfast in the summer. The lunches are a few hundred pound, the meeting space would hardly cost a hundred if I was paying it, it’s not really that significant for either party. There’s a tax write off for staff entertainment (ie the lunches) so it makes it easy do.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565990#Comment_119565990

Thanks for that, every day is a school day! Any issues at all with the remote set up Cluedo? Any one not taking to it?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119567072#Comment_119567072

No, people love it. Great work life balance. Commute time saving is key.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119567355#Comment_119567355

That's it for me. A commute there and back of an hour to 1:15 cycling if it's dry, or between 90 minutes and 2 hours if it's raining and I'm in the car; versus an earlier actual start and later finish (usually by choice!) if I work from home, where I get more work done anyway. That's a "saving" to me of between 3h45m and 6 hours hours a week (I WFH 3 days/week) - that's well worth the fiver or so it's costing me in extra heating!

WFH as Predicted in 1989!

Almost got it right. I'm sure that there's s typo in the original description.

https://youtu.be/1xtBspMixHk

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571389#Comment_119571389

🤣

"I'm just going to print these useless facts about this random person, just because."

"A system that lets you cut down on paperwork..."

But yeah, reasonably accurate predictions for over 30 years ago!