Bob Flavin (motoring journalist) & his views on EVs

Black_Knight

sk8board wrote: »

The most interesting stat I've seen recently on EV's is that the average mileage of a EV driver is HIGHER than a combustion car, when initially the thinking was that it would be the opposite.
Clearly that high entry price means that it's appealing most to those trying to rationalise the lifetime running costs.

I do 10,000km annually, it costs me about €800 of diesel. There is no rational EV option for me.

the ioniq was in a sweet spot in '17-18 when there were no affordable family car options bar the leaf. With EV tech evolving so quickly, the ioniq suddenly seems 'old', never mind the (I think) very poor quality interior - they'll still sell you a new one in 2020, but it's already a dead duck, barely 3 years on.

Second hand suits you, as it would suit you if you were buying a petrol or diesel car. I bought my Ioniq second hand, as I do similarish mileage to you (13-14k km). From my old car between tax, services and fuel I estimated i'd save about €1000 a year.

Ioniq (original) is very highly regarded here as being a great EV, and ahead of its time in some respects. Battery size is its main downfall, but even at that, it should satisfy many drivers in Ireland. IMO the Ioniq interior is one of Hyundais better.

New Ioniq (with 38.3kWh battery) is very much regarded as overpriced here on boards. It can suit some, but the price tag shoots itself in the foot.

EDIT: As for doing more mileage in an EV:
1. EVs being expensive means those who do more miles will recoup that cost faster
2. They're so cheap to drive, you may as well. We have 2 cars in our house, but we (I) try to utilise the EV as much as possible, since it's a cheaper car to run.
3. They're quite fun to drive, so i'm happy to get in and go... but my front tires are not.

unkel

Agree with the first part of your post. But:

sk8board wrote: »

With EV tech evolving so quickly, the ioniq suddenly seems 'old', never mind the (I think) very poor quality interior - they'll still sell you a new one in 2020, but it's already a dead duck, barely 3 years on.

What makes you think that? It's quite the opposite. Even though the car has a very small battery, it is a very capable family size EV. And because it is frugal and can fast charge quickly, it will cover a long distance quicker than most other EVs with twice the battery size. People recognise it as such, which is one of the reasons it's keeping its value well. Probably the least depreciating family car we have seen in Ireland in decades.

Of course it's an econobox from Korea, so the interior is economy too. Not on a par with say a VW Golf.

krissovo

Wrong thread....Doh

Bodhan

unkel wrote: »

Not really. Motor tax is far lower now than for the majority of cars compared to what it was before the changeover in 2008.

Yes and VRT went down and then back up with WLTP, excise on fuel, VAT on cars and fuel...the taxes go on. I don't mean that we are paying more, I mean there are already enough ways to pull tax out of private transport

sk8board

Matt Farrah made a point on his podcast recently that 75% of motor forum comments are people defending their current car choice and the rest are extolling the virtues of their next one

sk8board

unkel wrote: »

Probably the least depreciating family car we have seen in Ireland in decades. .

The numbers don’t support this.
Fair enough only 500 were sold here over the past 3 years (from beep beep data) and there’s only 39 for sale on carzone, but (only looking at lower mileage ones), it looks like they are listing as:
2020: €37k
2019: €29k
2018: €23k
2017: €21k

That’s still 43% depreciation over 3 years, on list prices, pretty much par for the course.
I know nothing about the ioniq or it’s trim levels, but there doesn’t appear to be much diff, and those are all cars I can buy today at those prices - 4-5 in each of the 3 years.

Kramer

sk8board wrote: »

I know nothing about the ioniq or it’s trim levels

Yup, that's pretty evident from your figures alright .

kris_2021

sk8board wrote: »

The numbers don’t support this.
Fair enough only 500 were sold here over the past 3 years (from beep beep data) and there’s only 39 for sale on carzone, but (only looking at lower mileage ones), it looks like they are listing as:
2020: €37k
2019: €29k
2018: €23k
2017: €21k

That’s still 43% depreciation over 3 years, on list prices, pretty much par for the course.
I know nothing about the ioniq or it’s trim levels, but there doesn’t appear to be much diff, and those are all cars I can buy today at those prices - 4-5 in each of the 3 years.

Ioniq did not cost €37k in 2017. I believe it was below €30k.

So why then are people not buying battery cars?

Is it because to get one comparable to a car you have to spend 50k?

Most people buy second handed, 10 - 15k. Who would buy a bv with 80km range? When they can get a tdi with 800

Black_Knight

kris_2021 wrote: »

Ioniq did not cost €37k in 2017. I believe it was below €30k.

30-31 normal price, but Hyundai were scrapping cars for 4k I think, and they had little to no criteria for the scrap car.

saabsaab

There will be a push now for greener fuel with the Greens back in power expect a new tax system and more tax on fossil fuels.

Mike3287

sk8board wrote: »

The numbers don’t support this.
Fair enough only 500 were sold here over the past 3 years (from beep beep data) and there’s only 39 for sale on carzone, but (only looking at lower mileage ones), it looks like they are listing as:
2020: €37k
2019: €29k
2018: €23k
2017: €21k

That’s still 43% depreciation over 3 years, on list prices, pretty much par for the course.
I know nothing about the ioniq or it’s trim levels, but there doesn’t appear to be much diff, and those are all cars I can buy today at those prices - 4-5 in each of the 3 years.

Very few paid over 28k new

Some even got got below 26k new with scrappage

Crazy times

Early buyers of ID3 at 34k going to have similar outcome imo, very low depreciation on that version

unkel

@sk8board - the 2020 model is completely different with a far bigger battery (39kWh compared to 28kWh for the old one) - you can't compare them.

Back in 2017 the full list price was €28.5k for the old model

unkel

sk8board wrote: »

Matt Farrah made a point on his podcast recently that 75% of motor forum comments are people defending their current car choice and the rest are extolling the virtues of their next one

What did he say about people like me posting mostly about their previous car?

Mike3287

unkel wrote: »

Agree with the first part of your post. But:



What makes you think that? It's quite the opposite. Even though the car has a very small battery, it is a very capable family size EV. And because it is frugal and can fast charge quickly, it will cover a long distance quicker than most other EVs with twice the battery size. People recognise it as such, which is one of the reasons it's keeping its value well. Probably the least depreciating family car we have seen in Ireland in decades.

Of course it's an econobox from Korea, so the interior is economy too. Not on a par with say a VW Golf.

Cause its a fabulous EV, ahead of its time

Its stats are top class

Most efficient EV on the market then and now

3c charge rate, just off 20 mins charge, zero to full ( unmatched by even Tesla )

LFP cells with little degradtion, on the market years now and people still getting full range, unheard of outside exotic EVs

5 year unlimited milage warranty and a lifetime battery/drivetrain warranty in the US, unheard of.

€26,000 otr with scrappage

Insane stuff

Great thing is in 2021/2022 other EVs will offer those features with new cell technologies like lfmp,lnmo

Only took them 5 years

Black_Knight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So why then are people not buying battery cars?

Is it because to get one comparable to a car you have to spend 50k?

Most people buy second handed, 10 - 15k. Who would buy a bv with 80km range? When they can get a tdi with 800

Buy a second hand EV so. Contrary to your post, the options aren't 50k for a new EV Vs 15k for a second hand TDI.
From what I've glanced over in the id3 thread, vw might actually have an ok priced competitor for the golf. Though some of their versions of the id3 are silly money.

Re: who would buy an EV with 80km range Vs a TDI with 800km... Do you need 800km? Likely those who buy an old leaf with 80km range are those who drive 20-30km to work everyday and want to save several hundred to thousands a year on running costs.

JPA

sk8board wrote: »

Matt Farrah made a point on his podcast recently that 75% of motor forum comments are people defending their current car choice and the rest are extolling the virtues of their next one

And sometimes it's the same person!

Old diesel

sk8board wrote: »

The numbers don’t support this.
Fair enough only 500 were sold here over the past 3 years (from beep beep data) and there’s only 39 for sale on carzone, but (only looking at lower mileage ones), it looks like they are listing as:
2020: €37k
2019: €29k
2018: €23k
2017: €21k

That’s still 43% depreciation over 3 years, on list prices, pretty much par for the course.
I know nothing about the ioniq or it’s trim levels, but there doesn’t appear to be much diff, and those are all cars I can buy today at those prices - 4-5 in each of the 3 years.

New ones were NOT 37 k in 2017.

The reason it's 37 k for a 2020 car is Hyundai had a stupidly ridiculous price increase for new model.

Last year you could buy a brand new old model 28 for 30 k

You will probably find that 37 k wont even be the real price of a new Ioniq in 2020 either.

Be closer to 34/35 k in reality with Covid and the fact that you can be in a superior capability 64 kwh Kia for not much more.

You can use the Kia and Covid to push for lower price.

Still overpriced at 34 k mind......

Just to illustrate where the market is at - the VW dealer in Longford is offering a demo 2020 eGolf with 1500 miles on it for 25,495.

An Ioniq 38 for close to 12 k more is just totally nuts even with the 38s extra range

Old diesel

Bad news.....

I made a mistake on that eGolf price.

It's 26,950 ......

Not sure if it was a brainfart on my part or if the dealer made a typo when putting the car up on carzone.

unkel

Still a good deal. That's a great EV for the money. You should post it in the bargains thread

minikin

Think I saw Bob in Portmagee on Wednesday. It must have been his doppelgänger as Laois is on lockdown.

drunkmonkey

I wonder how Bob is getting on with the ID.3......could really do with seeing an honest english speaking review.

drunkmonkey

Cheers Bob, is that timing or what:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GsXSO97hr8

80sDiesel

Had to give up watching it. Don’t mind his reviews but the pace was too slow and frustrating.

MightyMunster

sk8board wrote: »

The numbers don’t support this.
Fair enough only 500 were sold here over the past 3 years (from beep beep data) and there’s only 39 for sale on carzone, but (only looking at lower mileage ones), it looks like they are listing as:
2020: €37k
2019: €29k
2018: €23k
2017: €21k

That’s still 43% depreciation over 3 years, on list prices, pretty much par for the course.
I know nothing about the ioniq or it’s trim levels, but there doesn’t appear to be much diff, and those are all cars I can buy today at those prices - 4-5 in each of the 3 years.

So if my 2019 hadn't been stolen I could sell it now for a 3k profit. Sounds like good depreciation to me!

Lumen

80sDiesel wrote: »

Had to give up watching it. Don’t mind his reviews but the pace was too slow and frustrating.

You know you can just increase the playback speed?

NIMAN

Haven't got 20min to watch it now, what was his overall assessment?

drunkmonkey

NIMAN wrote: »

Haven't got 20min to watch it now, what was his overall assessment?

Go to 16.45 for day 2, very positive.

Black_Knight

Lumen wrote: »

You know you can just increase the playback speed?

I do this with Mr. EV for the odd interesting video he might have He's awfully slow paced.

Old diesel

It's the format many reviewers go with.

Youve to wait or skip through the interior and infortainment to get to the what's it like to drive stuff.

This is a problem with cars that already have wide coverage re interiors.

Like ID3.


I tend to skip through to the driving these days.