Bob Flavin (motoring journalist) & his views on EVs

liamog

Dare I say, as a regular poster on an EV board, you are not the intended target audience. One of the reasons I'm going to miss Johnny on Fully Charged is that he's much better at doing the car journalism.

I was watching Bob's review of the 330d, he's gone again into the daft place of people will buy a diesel because they only want to charge a car once a month. As a surbunite I do wonder about the attitude of some people in our rural towns. I get the arguments re towing ability, but surely if you have a driveway, the convenience of never having to go to a petrol station outways the inconvenience of parking up and plugging in twice a week.

Lumen

liamog wrote: »

One of the reasons I'm going to miss Johnny on Fully Charged is that he's much better at doing the car journalism.

Agreed, Fully Charged has really suffered as a result. It was a bit too uncritically positive even before Jonny left but now, much as I love Kryten, it offers very little in terms of constructive criticism or focused analysis of cars.

Their Mach E launch coverage was dire, incredibly soft.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

liamog wrote: »

Big difference between patronising someone and a journalist getting a simple explanation for the purpose of educating the audience.

Your totally missing the point. People dont want to be educated they want to be entertained. The successful educator manages to hide it in entertainment, and watching somebody make mistakes is both. Listening to lecture is not interesting, and will not do anything except make people thing they need a lecture series to run an EV. Maddie Moate is a childrens presenter not a journalist also.

liamog

Laura Rapping Warfare wrote: »

Your totally missing the point. People dont want to be educated they want to be entertained. The successful educator manages to hide it in entertainment, and watching somebody make mistakes is both. Listening to lecture is not interesting, and will not do anything except make people thing they need a lecture series to run an EV. Maddie Moate is a childrens presenter not a journalist also.

I found the Maddie series to be entertaining and educational. I didn't find it particularly patronising. If I had a non-techy friend was thinking of purchasing an EV and wanted more info, I'd probably point them towards the series.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

One of the reasons I'm going to miss Johnny on Fully Charged is that he's much better at doing the car journalism.
.

Where'd he go?

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Where'd he go?

Has his own channel now called CarPervert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyswzcDCjxE

btkm8unsl0w5r4

liamog wrote: »

I found the Maddie series to be entertaining and educational. I didn't find it particularly patronising. If I a non-techy friend was thinking of purchasing an EV, I'd probably point them towards the series.

Exactly....the best parts were not where she or some expert were being diadiatic, but the trial and error "real world" bits. Thats my point.

ELM327

Why'd he go?

jusmeig

ELM327 wrote: »

Why'd he go?

He had a beef with the robot at or just after Fully Charged Live.

Lantus

Most car vids are primarily to evoke emotion and garner enjoyment. Most experts across all major organisations and indies still insist on banging and scratching the top of the dashboard and talking about softness of plastic.

Never in my 20 plus years of driving have I ever rested my hands on the top of dashboard or seen another driver do it. My interaction is the wheel, gears and occasional button.

Fills a few minutes and the armchair experts nod enthusiastically and puff on their pipes...

timsey tiger

only ever saw somebody do it on intro to that seventies show

Joseph SEE

Black_Knight wrote: »

Where'd he go?

Car Pervert.

Edit: Already answered.

Joseph SEE

ELM327 wrote: »

Why'd he go?

Apparently, wanted to do his own thing and not be restricted by just covering EVs.

Agent_47

Kramer wrote: »

My only issue is with misinformation.

That's why I won't subscribe to his channel, I've watched the Sunday Service, more like the beggars bowl, every few minutes he is looking for paypal cash to "support the channel".

He rubbishes most cars, is very antagonistic with a smart mouth to boot. I once commented a few years ago that he should upgrade his audio to avoid wind noise on his videos, he commented that he would if I would buy him a proper mic. Fast forward to last year and he was moaning the audio was bad as the reason he could not release certain videos, a real tight arse looking for a free car every week to drive.

Don't bother watching or listening to the Sunday Service anymore, his day along with the ICE are done.

Joseph SEE

jusmeig wrote: »

He had a beef with the robot at or just after Fully Charged Live.

Where did you hear that?

tw0nk

I applaud Bob for setting up channel, sticking with it and growing it over time. However, content is really poor and often incorrect. If I treat it as just an opinion blog instead of car journalism I'm still not a fan as it comes across as having a rant/moan for a few cheap laughs.

Thanks to others for sharing some other YouTube creators as I wasn't aware of them.

sk8board

Lumen wrote: »

Agreed, Fully Charged has really suffered as a result. It was a bit too uncritically positive even before Jonny left but now, much as I love Kryten, it offers very little in terms of constructive criticism or focused analysis of cars.

Their Mach E launch coverage was dire, incredibly soft.

Agreed - I think Robert Llewellyn panders to an EV cult following rather than the mainstream audience he now has.
I stopped watching after the annoying Llewellyn rant videos were followed by poor coverage of launches where obvious questions were screaming to be asked but didn’t get a mention.

The maddie series was interesting (I’m the audiences for this), although 2 things:
1. You’d know she was a kids tv presenter - it was very over the top ‘pretend ignorance’ of solution-and-problem.
2. I actually shouted at my screen when she couldn’t get the kona to charge on a trip, but completely edited out what actually happened or what the issue was and suddenly they’re all charged up elsewhere. That’s the stuff we want to know!

All in all FCL is too EV cultish for me.

I also follow Bob Flavin - to be fair it’s a very Irish approach and re EVs I think his view is simply that you’d be mad to spend so much money on an EV at the moment/near term.
Bear in mind that the EV crowd are all experts and no sign of knowledge deficiency goes unpunished.
Again, in an Irish context, 2.8% of new sales being EVs would suggest he knows his audience.

I also find the Sunday service far too long and impossible to skip through, there’s no logic to it so it meanders hopelessly all over the place and wildly off topic into politics and all sorts

Black_Knight

Agent_47 wrote: »

That's why I won't subscribe to his channel, I've watched the Sunday Service, more like the beggars bowl, every few minutes he is looking for paypal cash to "support the channel".

He rubbishes most cars, is very antagonistic with a smart mouth to boot. I once commented a few years ago that he should upgrade his audio to avoid wind noise on his videos, he commented that he would if I would buy him a proper mic. Fast forward to last year and he was moaning the audio was bad as the reason he could not release certain videos, a real tight arse looking for a free car every week to drive.

Don't bother watching or listening to the Sunday Service anymore, his day along with the ICE are done.

Yeah, his begging is a bit much. Sunday service feels like a cash grab rather than being passionate about cars. The click bait titles too.

What he covers in reviews is a bit abstract too. Certainly if you want to know about shopping bag hooks in cars he's got ya sorted.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I will start by saying I like him, I like his presentation style and turn of phrase. What I think a lot of people are picking up on is his lack of consistency. He will praise one car for something, and then hammer another for having the same characteristic. When you watch his vids over time you cant help but not trust his opinion because it so changeable.

galwaytt

ELM327 wrote: »

The EQC and the ETron like it, are just paperweights. Crap compared to Tesla, less range, more inefficient, less charging speed or opportunities. When big auto wants to play the EV game I'm sure they will outspend Tesla and blow them out of the park with a 1000km range EV with 350kW charging but they are no where near that.

What you say is not untrue, but as soon as the mainstream brands like Audi/MB/BMW crack it, would-be Tesla owners will be swooned.

Look at sales figures in Norway for Jan 19 vs Jan 20. From 1100 down to 83 cars. The Audi eTron otoh went from nothing to 1000+ sales.

All that's happened is that Audi have supplanted Tesla there: it isn't a vote on the tech, but it does highlight the EV market isn't probably as big as people think, as all that's happened is they've cannibalised each other, rather than added their combined power (sic) to sell EV. That and the fact there are only so many €100k car buyers in any market.

People like the quality of the established brands : nothing wrong with that - it will be interesting to see if the Berlin Gigafactory can leverage some of that German quality into the Tesla build.

ELM327

galwaytt wrote: »

What you say is not untrue, but as soon as the mainstream brands like Audi/MB/BMW crack it, would-be Tesla owners will be swooned.

Look at sales figures in Norway for Jan 19 vs Jan 20. From 1100 down to 83 cars. The Audi eTron otoh went from nothing to 1000+ sales.

All that's happened is that Audi have supplanted Tesla there: it isn't a vote on the tech, but it does highlight the EV market isn't probably as big as people think, as all that's happened is they've cannibalised each other, rather than added their combined power (sic) to sell EV. That and the fact there are only so many €100k car buyers in any market.

People like the quality of the established brands : nothing wrong with that - it will be interesting to see if the Berlin Gigafactory can leverage some of that German quality into the Tesla build.

I mean, it will never happen that Tesla will be >50% of a mature market.
I think they are more affected by fluctuating delivery volumes as production ramps.


The german OEMs have the advantage of cash and scale, with the hampering of Tesla#s first mover advantage, less debt, and cult following.


It will be interesting to see what happens. Objectively cars like ETron and EQC are more premium and more like a normal car. Cars like the X have better range and better charging support (SuC network). The OEMs could quite easily overcome both of those.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

Objectively cars like ETron and EQC are more premium and more like a normal car. Cars like the X have better range and better charging support (SuC network). The OEMs could quite easily overcome both of those.

But they haven't. At least the "premium" ones haven't. So it can't be easy.

Listening to Bob yesterday (irony much?!) I learned that Hyundai/Kia invested unspecified vast amounts of money in EV tech over a number of years. That's why an e-Niro is largely competitive with a Model 3, range wise, at least in European driving conditions.

I've made this point to Tesla fans online and it doesn't tend to go down very well.

Tesla are in the fortunate position right now of appearing more "premium" than the Koreans whilst have better efficiency and range than the Germans.

I don't personally get the premium thing. I have a Kia and it's mostly a lovely place to spend time.

ELM327

Lumen wrote: »

But they haven't. At least the "premium" ones haven't. So it can't be easy.

Listening to Bob yesterday (irony much?!) I learned that Hyundai/Kia invested unspecified vast amounts of money in EV tech over a number of years. That's why an e-Niro is largely competitive with a Model 3, range wise, at least in European driving conditions.

I've made this point to Tesla fans online and it doesn't tend to go down very well.

Tesla are in the fortunate position right now of appearing more "premium" than the Koreans whilst have better efficiency and range than the Germans.

I don't personally get the premium thing. I have a Kia and it's mostly a lovely place to spend time.

It has longer range but much slower charge speed and suffers from coldgate.
I'd love my gen 1 ioniq with a 64kWh battery from a kona.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

It has longer range but much slower charge speed and suffers from coldgate.
I'd love my gen 1 ioniq with a 64kWh battery from a kona.

I'm fairly sure that Bjorn recently found that the e-Soul coldgates less (with a cold battery) than the Model 3.

Trying to find the video....

...found it. 20 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0JvU4dWtEw

ELM327

Yes that's a cold battery
Cold battery =/= coldgate though
Coldgate is arriving at a charger after 2 hours driving and still getting a lower curve

Bodhan

Hi Lads, just catching up on Boards as it was mentioned to me on Twitter a long while ago. Sorry I didn't answer, I'd forgotten my login details and there's so many comments, questions, videos, emails to get through.
Maybe you don't want a reply seeing as it might just be letting off internet steam?

Anyway, I'm Bob Flavin and I've been a Boards user for years and years

Bodhan

Kramer wrote: »

I just caught some of Bob's weekly podcast earlier & was surprised by his largely antagonistic attitude to EVs. He has an EQC apparently at present & seems very uninformed with regards to charging speeds.
He quite likely has a 16A cable as he can only draw 3kW from his home chargepoint, but says he can pull 7kW from ECars SCPs. He is aggrieved he can't get the full 22kW.
He confused kW & kWh & bounced between chargers & charge points (I hate that )

He referred to the EQC as "a paperweight" & said it was useless :eek:.

He also intimated EVs can stop abruptly on the motorway & pose a significant safety hazard. He said EVs can't be put into neutral & thus can't be towed or pushed...............

He said heating water with salt in it produces hydrogen. He said hydrogen fuels atomic bombs & if a hydrogen fuel station went up, it would wipe out a whole town, basically like an atomic bomb :eek:.

I forget how many other inaccuracies were in there (I didn't even listen much past half way).
If I was considering an EV I'd certainly be looking at staying in an ICE after watching Bob today. I must say, I was very disappointed.

A bit long to reply to all of this but you are watching a Sunday Service which is a LIVE show, there's no script or rehearsals so I have to talk off the top of my head for over two hours with hundreds of questions to answer. I don't always get it right but I do try to be as accurate as possible.
I have an opinion about EV's and ICE cars that vaires depending on the questions coming in. EQC is a great car but overpriced

I'm assuming I don't need to link to Electrolysis for turning water in hydrogen?

Bodhan

0lddog wrote: »

All true journalists never let the facts get in the way of a good storey


( ran his name thru a search engine - still dont know what rag he journalists for )

The "rag" is my own publication that I've built up on YouTube. Sometimes I write as a freelancer for other publications

Bodhan

Mickeroo wrote: »

That's a live stream, his normal vids are regular length, car reviews and the like.

He's not actually staunch anti EV really, he does come across as very misinformed on some things but he's quite enthusiastic about them at other times which seems a bit odd.

He's gone to a fair few IEVOA gatherings and been involved with a few EV conferences and things around the country.

I've only ever been to two IEVOA gatherings and I've spoken a few conferences about motoring and EV stuff that didn't involve IEVOA

Bodhan

unkel wrote: »

And to think he is probably one of the better informed Irish motoring journos out there

Scary isn't it?