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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    Most governments around the world are being forced into rethinking what is important, business or people.

    Fortunately most believe people come first,hopefully they'll force the financial markets to swallow these costs, if they want to preserve the "value" of money.
    It'll be interesting to see how the remote working and guaranteed wage will affect future policies.

    If people don't need to be physically present in meetings in Birmingham then there's no point spending £100Bn to get them there 20 minutes earlier.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It'll be interesting to see how the remote working and guaranteed wage will affect future policies.

    If people don't need to be physically present in meetings in Birmingham then there's no point spending £100Bn to get them there 20 minutes earlier.
    Yeah, commercial property owners and coffee shop managers will be shitting themselves at the prospects of long-term WFH

    BTW, HS2 is more a prestige project than one that has major benefits, it does need building - just not as a High speed line, unless the remainder of the line to Scotland also gets built.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    By your logic Ireland is also taking the wrong approach, don't forget that this is a fast moving situation and most governments around the world are trying their best to preserve BAU.
    <snip>
    Logic would have been to follow the Chinese model right from the start.

    Yep. Exactly the kind of measures that we in the West deem entirely appropriate for controlling the spread of infectious serious diseases in pigs and dogs and cows and horses.

    That would have been the logical response, but our governments and our people have become complacent, enjoying the benefits of our wealthy lifestyles with no thought for the downside. This was, literally, a problem waiting to happen, and no-one in government was taking it seriously. So much easier to run "terrorist shooter" drills in primary schools than to train adults to keep themselves at home.

    FWIW, I think all EU member states have bungled the control of this epidemic - in France and Ireland as much as in Italy ... but Johnson has been the poster-boy for how to really mess things up.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    Yeah, commercial property owners and coffee shop managers will be shitting themselves at the prospects of long-term WFH

    BTW, HS2 is more a prestige project than one that has major benefits, it does need building - just not as a High speed line, unless the remainder of the line to Scotland also gets built.

    I doubt if there is much difference cost wise if the trains run at 200kph or 300, but having the extra capacity is the critical thing.

    Rail must be the future, if only for freight. I agree though, it needs to go all the way to Glasgow and Edinburgh at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    salonfire wrote: »
    Can anyone explain to me how on earth Britain can afford its spending?
    Printing money. The ECB and the Fed probably will do the same thing though.


    Talking to family back in the UK it sounds like the fall of Rome over there compared to Dublin.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Based on our head start with the testing and the social distancing, less densely populated cities, rubbish public transport and lower levels of global connectivity, it may be possible that we begin to get a handle on this quicker than the UK.

    Would it be politically possible for us to close the borders to the UK on a republic/ island basis. Prob. not but if things get really out of control over there, everything changes when people are frightened.

    BTW their numbers of cases vs deaths seems way off (I've not done a detailed analysis here) I wonder are they missing a lot of cases from relative under testing.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Based on our head start with the testing and the social distancing, less densely populated cities, rubbish public transport and lower levels of global connectivity, it may be possible that we begin to get a handle on this quicker than the UK.

    Would it be politically possible for us to close the borders to the UK on a republic/ island basis. Prob. not but if things get really out of control over there, everything changes when people are frightened.

    BTW their numbers of cases vs deaths seems way off (I've not done a detailed analysis here) I wonder are they missing a lot of cases from relative under testing.

    I doubt Northern Ireland will get hit anywhere as bad as mainland UK.

    Closing the ferry ports would mean massive shortages here, so probably not a good idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Aegir wrote: »
    Closing the ferry ports would mean massive shortages here, so probably not a good idea.
    My feeling is that there will be a de-facto partial border closure due to aircraft being grounded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss



    Would it be politically possible for us to close the borders to the UK on a republic/ island basis. Prob. not but if things get really out of control over there, everything changes when people are frightened.

    On a republic basis - I don't think it's a step that is needed at the moment, since NI are now operating under roughly the same level of closures and 'rules' we are. If the UK had continued with the herd immunity plan, then it might have been a necessity.

    On an island basis - I don't believe it could ever be acceptable to the loyalist people up the north to cut themselves off from GB.
    edit : and as Aegir has already said, would cause us a lot of supply problems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    I'm prob. a bit like Trump, I meant just closed to people movement not goods.

    From an EU internal borders point of view. What is the status of UK now is our border with them an external eu border that can be closed or does the transition rules mean it is not or just effectively not?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    On an island basis - I don't believe it could ever be acceptable to the loyalist people up the north to cut themselves off from GB.
    edit : and as Aegir has already said, would cause us a lot of supply problems.

    I guess, hopefully we won't find out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    What is the status of UK now is our border with them an external eu border that can be closed or does the transition rules mean it is not or just effectively not?
    Ireland and the UK is outside the Schengen area which muddies the water a little bit. Ireland is also a little unusual in that it does not treat UK nationals as foreigners, and I am not aware of any country that has completly closed its borders to non-foreigners.



    I'm a UK national but have lived/worked in Ireland for the last 7 years. I might get quarantined but I doubt I would actually get stopped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    How long until France- UK border is closed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,732 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    How long until France- UK border is closed?
    Which side do you expect it to be closed from?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,732 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Aegir wrote: »
    I doubt Northern Ireland will get hit anywhere as bad as mainland UK.
    To be honest, I see no reason why it wouldn't. Not, at any rate, if it implements the same measures as the rest of the UK, and doesn't isolate from the rest of the UK.
    Aegir wrote: »
    Closing the ferry ports would mean massive shortages here, so probably not a good idea.
    Yes. Truth is that NI is too small to completely close its borders for very long; it would be unsustainable for more than a very short time. (The same is true for IRL.)

    I think what small areas have to think about, realistically, is not closing their borders but managing and controlling cross-border flows. NI could certainly restrict ferry services to essential supplies and the workers needed to transport them. You'd have to think carefully, obviously, about what counts as "essential supplies", but it could be done. And NI could similarly restrict passenger traffic through air and sea ports to people travelling for an approved reason.

    It could if necessary also attempt to do the same along the border with the Republic. Obviously there are political issues with doing that, just as there would be with controlling the sea border with GB. But there comes a point where political considerations have to take second place to public safety. I think the bigger issue is that it would be very difficult in practice to operate controls along the land border. Compared to controlling the sea border, it would be a much bigger, much more expensive, much more disruptive and much less effective operation. But - politics again - it might be necessary to attempt to do this in order to make the operation of sea border controls politically acceptable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    How long until France- UK border is closed?

    Which side do you expect it to be closed from?
    The French side, and "soon" is what the French PM said a few days ago, in response to Johnson's inaction. He hasn't retracted that statement, as France is preparing now to reinforce internal movement restrictions while Johnson continues to bluster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    From the Sunday Times (Tim Shipman) this morning

    At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.’

    If true surely Cummings can't survive that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Roanmore wrote: »
    At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.’

    If true surely Cummings can't survive that?
    He'll survive. Not sure about him saying it but the remark itself does not surprise me.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    PommieBast wrote: »
    He'll survive. Not sure about him saying it but the remark itself does not surprise me.
    Yeah, Like any good politician, he puts his sponsors (big business) interests before the country's health.

    It will be interesting to see if any of the corporate leaders come out and admit their pressure to maintain BAU will ultimately cost many thousands of extra lives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,732 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Roanmore wrote: »
    From the Sunday Times (Tim Shipman) this morning

    At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.’

    If true surely Cummings can't survive that?
    It will simply be denied that he said it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,435 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Roanmore wrote: »
    From the Sunday Times (Tim Shipman) this morning

    At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.’

    If true surely Cummings can't survive that?

    Are we surprised? He hired an advisor who was vocally pro lower/upper class eugenics


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, from being slow off the blocks in fighting the COVID-19 pandemic now they have one of the more severe lockdown regimes in Europe.
    Final warning before enforcing a full curfew.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Banner2theend


    A full curfew is the ultimate nuclear option for any government to implement. In these extraordinary times of global crisis, this decision by BJ was the inevitable outcome considering the alarming track of where this virus could head on the Uk, possibly worse than Italy.

    If our own govt here doesn't follow suit than that could have major security implications for this island if our rules are more lax than in the North.

    I applaud Boris on this decisive move but like everyone these measures could backfire, that's on the basis of them not been draconian enough or weren't implemented at least 2 weeks earlier. I'm no Boris fan but that was possibly his best 5 minutes as British PM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    Well, from being slow off the blocks in fighting the COVID-19 pandemic now they have one of the more severe lockdown regimes in Europe.
    Final warning before enforcing a full curfew.

    Which Europe are you looking at? These measures are still barely a match for those in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Greece ...

    So it's still just "slow off the blocks" for Johnson.

    This message comes to you from the curfewed town of Mulhouse, France. :p


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Which Europe are you looking at? These measures are still barely a match for those in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Greece ...

    So it's still just "slow off the blocks" for Johnson.

    This message comes to you from the curfewed town of Mulhouse, France. :p
    It's a fast changing situation, many areas are still quite lax at the moment.
    It's like watching dominoes falling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I hope the UK authorities will be monitoring NI cars heading south?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Finally taking it seriously, this is a relief. When will we get this here and the closing of ports/border to movement of people?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,732 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I hope the UK authorities will be monitoring NI cars heading south?
    Why would they do that? They have enough to do dealing with CV19.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,732 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Finally taking it seriously, this is a relief. When will we get this here and the closing of ports/border to movement of people?
    We are well past the point where closing of ports and borders would make any difference. The infection is well-established in Ireland, and it's internal measures that will affect how matters progress from here.

    Closing of ports and borders might have symbolic significance, in bringhing home to those who still don't get it how serious the situation is. But as an infection control measure, its impact would be negligible.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Why would they do that? They have enough to do dealing with CV19.

    I think the post was meant in jest.


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