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General British politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No this will finish the virus. If nobody has it then it cannot be spread. Unless there is a reservoir, that causes reinfections.

    This could be travelers coming from an area of infections or it jumping the species barrier again.

    Also, herd immunity is a joke given how quickly viruses in this family evolve. Are you immune to the common cold, and how many times have you had one?

    Do you know how vaccines work?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Aegir wrote: »
    Do you know how vaccines work?

    Vaccines work by providing immunity, as does catching the disease (and surviving). If over 90% of a herd is immune, then the last 10% are unlikely to get infected, as long as the virus does not mutate. Flu and the common cold regularly mutate every season.

    We know little about the Covid19, other than it is contagious, and has a mortality rate of 4% or so. It has not been around for a full season, so we do not even know if it will die down during the summer. In fact, because it is worldwide, it probably wont.

    Of course, you know all of this and are currently advising the Government.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Cut out the sniping please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-london-lockdown-deaths-cases-tfl-a9409671.html

    Seems London may go into Lockdown.
    I'm just aghast, but not surprised, that a mere 6 days since An Taoiseach made his address on the steps of Blair House in DC, and was ridiculed in British and Unionist quarters that he and we were overreacting, the British may have to come down even harder because of their lackadaisical reaction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,283 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Aegir wrote: »
    Barely qualified?

    I'd love to see what you think over qualified would mean

    How's this working out?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,206 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Dear God, the snobbery.

    There have been many working-class Chancellors. Sunak's immediate predecessor, Sajid Javid, is the son of a bus-driver. John Major is the son of a music-hall performer and trapeze artist. James Callaghan was the son of a sailor. Denis Healey's father was a mechanic.

    All this is richly ironic, given that I posted in response to this post of yours:

    It seesm the disdain here is yours. And your advocacy of the working classes is less than convincing, given your conviction in the teeth of the easily-observed evidence that they couldn't possibly aspire to competence in a high office of state.

    You are the one that started the class war when you alluded to Sunak not being working class. You were the one who brought class up in the first place, and now you have gone on to list prominent Tory's who come from a working class background. That's an interesting admission from someone who I'd guess would suggest the Tory party is full of elites.

    If anyone showed class disdain it was you, pointing out Sunak's upper middle class connections. Class disdain works both ways and in my life experience working class disdain for the general middle classes is much stronger than the other way around.

    Oh, and you forgot to mention Thatcher was the daughter of a common grocer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,742 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    AllForIt wrote: »
    You are the one that started the class war when you alluded to Sunak not being working class . . .
    I am not; I was responding to this point in support of Sunak, by you:
    AllForIt wrote: »
    All I hear from that is a typical lefty disdain for ppl who have had an education.
    Up the working classes.
    AllForIt wrote: »
    You were the one who brought class up in the first place . . .
    No, you were, in the post I just quoted.
    AllForIt wrote: »
    and now you have gone on to list prominent Tory's who come from a working class background. That's an interesting admission from someone who I'd guess would suggest the Tory party is full of elites.
    Hardly an admission, AllForIt. It was intended as a refutation of your claim that the working classes are incapable of being Chancellor of the Exchequer. And I didn't list "prominent Tories"; I listed Chancellors of the Exchequer, two Tories and two Labour.
    AllForIt wrote: »
    If anyone showed class disdain it was you, pointing out Sunak's upper middle class connections. Class disdain works both ways and in my life experience working class disdain for the general middle classes is much stronger than the other way around.
    I wasn't showing "class disdain"; I was refuting the suggestion that you could plausibly held him up as a champion of the working class. You may think that to point out that someone is not of the working class is automatically a manifestation of disdain, but that probably says more about your attitudes to class than about mine.
    AllForIt wrote: »
    Oh, and you forgot to mention Thatcher was the daughter of a common grocer.
    I was listing Chancellors of the Exchequer - both Labour and Tory - who had a working class background, by way of illustrating how your class disdain has no grounding in reality. Thatcher was never Chancellor of the Exchequer. Nor, as it happens, was she from a working-class background; her father owned a chain of shops, and by all the standard measures she had a middle-class backrgound and upbringing. But perhaps your disdain extends to the middle classes also?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-london-lockdown-deaths-cases-tfl-a9409671.html

    Seems London may go into Lockdown.
    I'm just aghast, but not surprised, that a mere 6 days since An Taoiseach made his address on the steps of Blair House in DC, and was ridiculed in British and Unionist quarters that he and we were overreacting, the British may have to come down even harder because of their lackadaisical reaction.

    This will come back to haunt all these fools in the end expecially if there's a huge surge or they end up the next Italy in all of this because they acted the maggot in all this, BS on the whole "using the wrong data" excuse as well they didnt want to follow the rest of the continent purely out of vindictive spite like their whole approach to Brexit, it's only when they were told how many will die did they finally get bounced into acting because it would utterly destroy them long term (not to mention the small irony of a huge chunk of their core vote being wiped out in one go). Can't blame the EU for their own incompetence anymore they're on the hook now and if people end up dying in much larger numbers in Britain because of their arrogance they should be ran out of power for it and never let near it again.

    As for Arlene and co lets be honest they're like the rest of them they went with Boris because they ideologically drunk on their own delusions and would do the complete opposite of what was happening on the rest of the Island because it came from Dublin not from Westminster even tho this had the potential to kill many vulnerable people in the long run. Just another example of the DUP and that putting ideological idiocy before the greater good you dont play politics with peoples safety and lives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Infini wrote: »
    This will come back to haunt all these fools in the end expecially if there's a huge surge or they end up the next Italy in all of this because they acted the maggot in all this, BS on the whole "using the wrong data" excuse as well they didnt want to follow the rest of the continent purely out of vindictive spite like their whole approach to Brexit, it's only when they were told how many will die did they finally get bounced into acting because it would utterly destroy them long term (not to mention the small irony of a huge chunk of their core vote being wiped out in one go). Can't blame the EU for their own incompetence anymore they're on the hook now and if people end up dying in much larger numbers in Britain because of their arrogance they should be ran out of power for it and never let near it again.

    As for Arlene and co lets be honest they're like the rest of them they went with Boris because they ideologically drunk on their own delusions and would do the complete opposite of what was happening on the rest of the Island because it came from Dublin not from Westminster even tho this had the potential to kill many vulnerable people in the long run. Just another example of the DUP and that putting ideological idiocy before the greater good you dont play politics with peoples safety and lives.
    Well you do if you're a Tory or a Unionist.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well you do if you're a Tory or a Unionist.

    Or the SNP, obviously.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭serfboard


    To the surprise of no-one, billionaire Brexit bastard Tim Martin refuses to shut his pubs in the UK, despite the fact that the Irish ones have closed:
    Tim Martin wrote:
    Am I out of my depth? We’re a democracy, aren’t we? I’m obviously not an expert but I’ve got a view and that’s all I can say.
    He being "obviously not an expert" didn't stop him talking sh1te about Brexit and obviously doesn't stop him talking sh1te about this.

    Under the hashtag #BoycottWetherspoons I saw the following tweet


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    serfboard wrote: »
    To the surprise of no-one, billionaire Brexit bastard Tim Martin refuses to shut his pubs in the UK, despite the fact that the Irish ones have closed:

    He being "obviously not an expert" didn't stop him talking sh1te about Brexit and obviously doesn't stop him talking sh1te about this.

    Under the hashtag #BoycottWetherspoons I saw the following tweet
    UK have just ordered the pubs to shut


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Well, they've closed the pubs now. Finally..


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, they've closed the pubs now. Finally..
    And paying everyone's wages.


    UK throwing the rule books out the window.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51982005
    The government is to pay the wages of employees unable to work due to the coronavrius pandemic in a radical move aimed at protecting people’s jobs.
    It will pay 80% of wages for employees unable to work due to the coronavirus pandemic, worth up to £2,500 a month.
    The “unprecedented” measures would stop workers being laid off due to the crisis, chancellor Rishi Sunak said.
    Firms have warned the virus could see them collapse, wiping out thousands of jobs, as life in the UK is put on hold.
    Brave move to stop the economy from collapsing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,283 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Tories have become socialists to save their own hides


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,206 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Tories have become socialists to save their own hides

    Their hides don't need saving given their last election results.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,283 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Their hides don't need saving given their last election results.

    They've faffed about for 3 weeks doing nothing


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    They've faffed about for 3 weeks doing nothing

    Faffed it all up the wall


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Their hides don't need saving given their last election results.


    I take it the poster was referring the fact that while the rest of Europe was shutting down to combat the disease, the UK government was doing nothing, even advising sporting bodies against cancelling anything because the government had a better plan up their sleeve. They've now abandoned that plan and are falling in line with the rest of Europe.

    That U-turn is what they have to answer for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,422 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I take it the poster was referring the fact that while the rest of Europe was shutting down to combat the disease, the UK government was doing nothing, even advising sporting bodies against cancelling anything because the government had a better plan up their sleeve. They've now abandoned that plan and are falling in line with the rest of Europe.

    That U-turn is what they have to answer for.

    And seemingly that uturn was done on the basis of one scientific study (imperial college).

    Why the sudden, and completely unexplained, uturn.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    And seemingly that uturn was done on the basis of one scientific study (imperial college).

    Why the sudden, and completely unexplained, uturn.
    At least they realised that they were on the wrong path and changed course before the morgues filled up!


    Also the Chinese appear to have succeeded in stopping the virus by taking such drastic measures, so it was logical to take that approach, despite being under huge pressure to maintain BAU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach

    Interesting article here on why they changed direction.
    You would hope the Chief Science Adviser was influenced by Cummings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭salonfire


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    At least they realised that they were on the wrong path and changed course before the morgues filled up!


    Also the Chinese appear to have succeeded in stopping the virus by taking such drastic measures, so it was logical to take that approach, despite being under huge pressure to maintain BAU.

    Oh, it was logical, was it?

    To defy the WHO, other EU & Asian countries, then a few weeks later pull a U-turn is logical to you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Can anyone explain to me how on earth Britain can afford its spending?

    Brexit is going to cost a fortune replicating EU regulations and customs workers. Now promising to pay 80% of salaries to those laid off.

    The UK did not recover from the 2008 recession the same way as Ireland did and its austerity after effects is still lingering on.

    With its solo run aka Brexit, how much confidence can lenders have on the UK's future and ability to repay borrowing?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    salonfire wrote: »
    Oh, it was logical, was it?

    To defy the WHO, other EU & Asian countries, then a few weeks later pull a U-turn is logical to you?
    So you would have preferred it they had continued on the previous course?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,657 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    At least they realised that they were on the wrong path and changed course before the morgues filled up!


    Also the Chinese appear to have succeeded in stopping the virus by taking such drastic measures, so it was logical to take that approach, despite being under huge pressure to maintain BAU.

    Indeed it was. By implication, then, you're admitting that the UK's approach was - and still is - illogical because they haven't even imposed a French- or Italian- or New-York-style lockdown, never mind a drastic Chinese-style approach.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Indeed it was. By implication, then, you're admitting that the UK's approach was - and still is - illogical because they haven't even imposed a French- or Italian- or New-York-style lockdown, never mind a drastic Chinese-style approach.
    By your logic Ireland is also taking the wrong approach, don't forget that this is a fast moving situation and most governments around the world are trying their best to preserve BAU.

    Something that they should have decided earlier, which comes first! people or business.

    Most decided that Business came before people, it was only when they realised that such an approach would kill many thousands more did they act and started prioritising people's health first.

    Logic would have been to follow the Chinese model right from the start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    salonfire wrote: »
    Can anyone explain to me how on earth Britain can afford its spending?

    Brexit is going to cost a fortune replicating EU regulations and customs workers. Now promising to pay 80% of salaries to those laid off.

    The UK did not recover from the 2008 recession the same way as Ireland did and its austerity after effects is still lingering on.

    With its solo run aka Brexit, how much confidence can lenders have on the UK's future and ability to repay borrowing?

    Not an economist but brexit or no brexit, they could not simply stand idly by while everything went into lockdown. Whether they can afford it, they equally couldnt afford not to do it. I think the overall package is just north of £400bn. Some will argue its still nowhere near enough.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not an economist but brexit or no brexit, they could not simply stand idly by while everything went into lockdown. Whether they can afford it, they equally couldnt afford not to do it. I think the overall package is just north of £400bn. Some will argue its still nowhere near enough.
    Most governments around the world are being forced into rethinking what is important, business or people.

    Fortunately most believe people come first,hopefully they'll force the financial markets to swallow these costs, if they want to preserve the "value" of money.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    Most governments around the world are being forced into rethinking what is important, business or people.

    Fortunately most believe people come first,hopefully they'll force the financial markets to swallow these costs, if they want to preserve the "value" of money.

    Yes and also the lay of the land is different now than it was 12 years ago and i think there's a realisation among those in power that similar shenanigans will not play this time. Twitter is a craphouse most of the time but also a pretty effective vehicle for working class grievances to get easy mass circulation.


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