Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

TomOnBoard

deezell wrote: »

It's not VAT free though, any private used UK car price has it's residual VAT in its price since new, e.g, a £12000 car is a £10,000 car with 20% vat, but this cant be claimed back by anyone, desler or exporter. All thats happened is they avoided being charged another 20% on the £12,000 under protocol rules, maintaining pre brexit status quo. A VAT qualifying car can be treated differently if exported.
There's no value at this price level given NI prices, exchange rate and WLTP/Nox increases.

Aaaand, on top of there no longer being any used car value on import, you have the motor insurers simply GOUGING ppl who are keeping their cars beyond 10-15 years. So the less well-off motorist gets screwed at every turn!!

When are we all going to get real and challenge some of this bolloxology in a country that lacks any basic public transport infrastructure outside major cities?
:mad::mad::mad:

treatyman

A friend in the trade sent me this. This is a car that he was looking at buying.

I guess the car trade here brought this car in VAT free. You can see the import duty and vrt.

So I guess the normal Joe soap has no option as vat would kill any value on importing.

deezell

treatyman wrote: »

A friend in the trade sent me this. This is a car that he was looking at buying.

I guess the car trade here brought this car in VAT free. You can see the import duty and vrt.

So I guess the normal Joe soap has no option as vat would kill any value on importing.

You'd have to assume that was a Vat Qualifying car in order to deduct UK VAT. Joe Soap can import one of these just like a dealer, don't pay the UK 20%. The only advantage the Irish trade has is access to trade only UK auctions where a lot of VQ cars are sold. Ordinary non VQ cars retain UK VAT, but attract Irish VAT also, whither private or dealer purchased. Only NI dealers can sell non VQ down here without Irish VAT, if they're 'properly imported' into NI, whatever that means.

User1998

Can’t dealers buy a uk vat qualifying car and pay zero uk vat, then import it here and reclaim the 23% Irish vat, and only have to pay 10% customs. Unlike a private buyer who will struggle to find a vat qualifying uk car and won’t be able to reclaim the 23% Irish vat

deezell

User1998 wrote: »

Can’t dealers buy a uk vat qualifying car and pay zero uk vat, then import it here and reclaim the 23% Irish vat, and only have to pay 10% customs. Unlike a private buyer who will struggle to find a vat qualifying uk car and won’t be able to reclaim the 23% Irish vat

Irish VAT currently 21%, but you're missing the point, if you import anything from outside eu VAT free, you must pay VAT on import. If your'e a business and haven't sold it quickly, you van claim it back, but you have to collect it again when you sell the car (plus vat on your profit margin). The govt always gets it's cut.

Isambard

yes there's confusion here. NI dealers can import a GB car without paying VAT put still have to charge it when they sell the car. It won't attract VAT or Duty crossing the border.

I wonder how things stand importing a GB car to NI not originating in the UK, a BMW for instance. I suspect it will attract 10%duty somewhere along the line.

Ks_2020

Has anyone gone through the vrt process post brexit with a car from the NI that was first registered in the UK? In the process of buying one from a dealer up north, he is adamant that once I have the V5 and an invoice from them showing I bought it from a dealer up north I'm good to go. Asked revenue for clarification but no response from them yet.

mgn

Isambard wrote: »

yes there's confusion here. NI dealers can import a GB car without paying VAT put still have to charge it when they sell the car. It won't attract VAT or Duty crossing the border.

I wonder how things stand importing a GB car to NI not originating in the UK, a BMW for instance. I suspect it will attract 10%duty somewhere along the line.

If an NI dealer imports a VAT margin car (VAT paid in the UK originally when bought new) the only pay VAT on profit on selling it.

If the import a VAT qualifying car, the pay zero VAT in the UK but have to pay VAT when the sell it plus VAT on profit also.

VAT has to be paid somewhere along the line.

That's my understanding of things as it stands at the moment.

Isambard

Ks_2020 wrote: »

Has anyone gone through the vrt process post brexit with a car from the NI that was first registered in the UK? In the process of buying one from a dealer up north, he is adamant that once I have the V5 and an invoice from them showing I bought it from a dealer up north I'm good to go. Asked revenue for clarification but no response from them yet.

Yes you should be, I think you will however be paying NI VAT when you buy it, included in the selling price.. There is no deal that allows you to buy stuff without VAT. There will only be VRT to pay in the Republic.

Curious Geroge

Revenue don't make any of this very clear
```
VAT is only payable if

- it is less than six months after its first registration
or
- it has travelled 6,000 kilometres or less
```
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/vat-and-customs-duty.aspx

Conflicting information to revenue

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html#

The killer here is the addition of import duty on a car from the uk ( northern Ireland is except from this charge).

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx

But the duty isn't payable if the car was originally purchased and used in the uk (revenue don't clarify the vat element here which is both annoying and confusing as it leaves the question unanswered)

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

Has anyone imported a car in the past couple of weeks that can tell us what's what

deezell

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Revenue don't make any of this very clear
```
VAT is only payable if
- it is less than six months after its first registration
or
- it has travelled 6,000 kilometres or less
```

This only applies on imports from EU and NI. Vat on any other source country.

Conflicting information to revenue
The killer here is the addition of import duty on a car from the uk ( northern Ireland is except from this charge).
But the duty isn't payable if the car was originally purchased and used in the uk

Incorrect, duty payable if it's not a car of UK origin, being imported from the UK. Read your last link. (A car of any origin coming from NI if 'properly imported' there first does not pay duty and VAT when it heads south.)
"The following vehicles imported from Great Britain will have tariffs applied as they will not qualify as UK origin under the rules of origin:

• Vehicles of EU origin used in the UK"

(revenue don't clarify the vat element here which is both annoying and confusing as it leaves the question unanswered)

It does. See the table also on your last link here

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

fryup

so basically the government is trying to discourage us from importing cars??

pressure brought on by SIMI ?

Isambard

fryup wrote: »

so basically the government is trying to discourage us from importing cars??

pressure brought on by SIMI ?

I don't think it's got anything to do with that, they're applying EU regulations.

JohnFalstaff

There's an article on the RTE website this morning that addresses some of these questions:

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

rodge123

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

fryup

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it's got anything to do with that, they're applying EU regulations.

but they hiked up the VRT

rodge123

This not from the RTÉ article:

“ If we can get our new car market back to a reasonable functioning level of 140,00-150,000 cars a year, that business alone will generate sufficient used car trade-ins to supply the used car market,' he said”

Yeah paddy spec new cars! Won’t be anywhere close to to the level of choice of used 2/3 year old cars with good spec and nice extras.

Isambard

rodge123 wrote: »

This not from the RTÉ article:

“ If we can get our new car market back to a reasonable functioning level of 140,00-150,000 cars a year, that business alone will generate sufficient used car trade-ins to supply the used car market,' he said”

Yeah paddy spec new cars! Won’t be anywhere close to to the level of choice of used 2/3 year old cars with good spec and nice extras.

the last three cars I bought, the Dealer didn't even stock the lower models. I'm not sure there's a Paddy spec any more.

deezell

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it's got anything to do with that, they're applying EU regulations.

Britain left the EU. It's entirely their creation, not the EUs fault.You might as well be importing from Russia as from there now. Sure, there was no appetite in Simi or Govt for import concessions, and the Greens agenda is to punish all motorists (though way back it was their emissions based approach that massively dropped the price and road tax of low co2 decent sized and powered engines, for example, 2008 onward 520Ds flooding in from the UK).
Blame Boris. and drive a banger.

Isambard

i'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out it has nothing to do with SIMI.

VAT is charged on all imports to the EU and a GB to NI import is classed as that now.

Schorpio

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

There's an article on the RTE website this morning that addresses some of these questions:

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

So, it seems from reading the article that SIMI and Revenue are not happy that Britain has unilaterally decided to wave import duty and import VAT on cars coming from the UK mainland into NI (no surprise there). The article says this breaks the agreed UK/EU protocol.

However, there is no mention of the knock-on effect to an ROI motorist, who purchases a mainland-UK used car from an NI dealer, where said dealer had imported the car in 2021, and has all of the correct importation paperwork.

Revenue will not be happy that no duty or import VAT will have been paid, but surely this cannot be for the ROI buyer to rectify?

Also, doesn't seem to be any mention in the article that vehicles on an NI reg are not subject to import duty or import VAT. Very off-putting for the average person who hasn't been following this mess closely (granted the new VRT rules are off-putting too.....).

Isambard

the thing is there is no VAT or import duty on a car NI to RoI. This should have been accounted for on a GB to NI on "proper" import but the UK has moved the goalposts but that's their loss. That money wouldn't accrue to Ireland's Revenue anyway. Either way the end user will pay!

Car99

Schorpio wrote: »

So, it seems from reading the article that SIMI and Revenue are not happy that Britain has unilaterally decided to wave import duty and import VAT on cars coming from the UK mainland into NI (no surprise there). The article says this breaks the agreed UK/EU protocol.

However, there is no mention of the knock-on effect to an ROI motorist, who purchases a mainland-UK used car from an NI dealer, where said dealer had imported the car in 2021, and has all of the correct importation paperwork.

Revenue will not be happy that no duty or import VAT will have been paid, but surely this cannot be for the ROI buyer to rectify?

Also, doesn't seem to be any mention in the article that vehicles on an NI reg are not subject to import duty or import VAT. Very off-putting for the average person who hasn't been following this mess closely (granted the new VRT rules are off-putting too.....).

We should set up a gofundme page for a Guinea pig import to answer all our questions.

damemcd

Definitely a scare tactic by revenue.....unclear rules and regulations complete with sparce details on revenue.ie....

deezell

damemcd wrote: »

Definitely a scare tactic by revenue.....unclear rules and regulations complete with sparce details on revenue.ie....

So rule of thumb 1.
DON'T buy a car from NI with UK reg plates, unless it has a NI owner pre Jan 31.
Rule 2.
Don't buy any car from UK unless it was manufactured in UK and is Vat Qualifying.

The average age of cars will escalate by 2 years, there are many, many people for whom a new car is just a dream. Watch road accidents and emissions increase as the roadworthiness of the national fleet decreases. We've been here before, paying top dollar for old high milers, with the corporate new car owners laughing at the huge trade in premium on offer. It is totally against the spirit of the single market. The simple fact of being right hand drive puts us outside the EU market, so I don't know why revenue are so keen to comply with the letter of the protocol, it's not like we're a back door for LHD used cars into the EU.

Vicxas

So we're back to buying bog standard motors with very little spec, because thats all that new car owners in Ireland seem to buy for the most part.

Car99

deezell wrote: »

So rule of thumb 1.
DON'T buy a car from NI with UK reg plates, unless it has a NI owner pre Jan 31.
Rule 2.
Don't buy any car from UK unless it was manufactured in UK and is Vat Qualifying.

The average age of cars will escalate by 2 years, there are many, many people for whom a new car is just a dream. Watch road accidents and emissions increase as the roadworthiness of the national fleet decreases. We've been here before, paying top dollar for old high milers, with the corporate new car owners laughing at the huge trade in premium on offer. It is totally against the spirit of the single market. The simple fact of being right hand drive puts us outside the EU market, so I don't know why revenue are so keen to comply with the letter of the protocol, it's not like we're a back door for LHD used cars into the EU.

The roadworthiness of the national fleet should not decrease , people will have more money to spend looking after their older car because they didnt buy a newer car. One thing that should happen is the government needs to address / invedtigate loading on older cars by insurance companies. You would think a 9 year old car with an NCT suddenly becomes a death trap once it reaches its 10th birthday and its a mobile weapon once it hits 15 years.

wassie

Its generally accepted replacement parts become more of an issue after 10 years. More so if the model has been discontinued early on in a cars life.

Isambard wrote: »

the last three cars I bought, the Dealer didn't even stock the lower models. I'm not sure there's a Paddy spec any more.

Paddy spec is definitely still a thing - otherwise why would so many people privately import? Just try to configure the same car in Ireland & UK on most models - you wont get like for like.

Thanks to VRT you either get less bling and/or choice for a comparable price - or you get a comparable spec and pay more. Simple economics that the manufacturers understand very well.

Isambard

wassie wrote: »

Its generally accepted replacement parts become more of an issue after 10 years. More so if the model has been discontinued early on in a cars life.



Paddy spec is definitely still a thing - otherwise why would so many people privately import? Just try to configure the same car in Ireland & UK on most models - you wont get like for like.

Thanks to VRT you either get less bling and/or choice for a comparable price - or you get a comparable spec and pay more. Simple economics that the manufacturers understand very well.

It's hard to think what extra I could get on my new car. I can't think of a thing it doesn't have. You won't get the same car for the same money, VRT is the reason whjy. If you want a cheaper car, you can reduce the spec yourself I guess.

User1998

wassie wrote: »

Its generally accepted replacement parts become more of an issue after 10 years. More so if the model has been discontinued early on in a cars life.



Paddy spec is definitely still a thing - otherwise why would so many people privately import? Just try to configure the same car in Ireland & UK on most models - you wont get like for like.

Thanks to VRT you either get less bling and/or choice for a comparable price - or you get a comparable spec and pay more. Simple economics that the manufacturers understand very well.

Paddy spec isn’t really a thing these days, theres thousands of ‘paddy spec’ cars in the UK too. The standard equipment on a lot of cars are better in Ireland than the equivalent car in the UK. Theres just more cars to choose from in the UK so you’re more likely to find a higher spec one.

To be honest, a lot of non car people say that UK cars are higher spec, but in a lot of cases it’s simply not true