Coronavirus

Ipso

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I respect he admits he had a closed mind about conspiracies before and now is doing research and no longer closed minded.

Some of you there no hope there be an awakening

John Waters friend of Gemma O’Doherty.
It’s very disheartening that we can know so much about how diseases develop and spread, and how we can combat them that we still have such ignorance in the world. Everything has to be reduced to their narcissistic complex.

YFlyer

Abel Ruiz wrote: »

Nope

Don't be a sheep.

Cheerful Spring2

Ipso wrote: »

John Waters friend of Gemma O’Doherty.
It’s very disheartening that we can know so much about how diseases develop and spread, and how we can combat them that we still have such ignorance in the world. Everything has to be reduced to their narcissistic complex.

Virologists contemplate all right, this virus showed up in an animal first and then was passed into humans, it’s a valid assumption. 

What individuals on different forums online have not caught on to yet though,  Covid-19 has never been observed before in any animal. All they have found so far it’s similar to SARS with differences!

If a Virologist positions they know for sure this new virus came from an animal there bull****ting. Until they find this virus present in an animal they are just speculating like the rest of us to the cause of the outbreak.

It’s humorous some humans think they cannot tamper with viruses in a workshop lab.  Militaries have been constructing biological weapons for decades.

Truth is some countries have introduced soft Martial lockdown, to deny that is fantasy. Some government heads have even suggested rounding up people for hanging out in their front garden and there asking people to spy on their neighbours. It’s a dyspotian way of living and lot of individuals seemly do not notice or care we now spying on other people and being suspious of them. It now a slowroll out to Orwell 1984 

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I respect he admits he had a closed mind about conspiracies before and now is doing research and no longer closed minded.

Some of you there no hope there be an awakening

Waters has done a 180 because he thinks there may be money to be made.

Cheerful Spring2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Waters has done a 180 because he thinks there may be money to be made.

Well, no  I just saw a man chatting about the new normal,. We’re barely two months into this shutdown and already suggestions are being made we all sneak on our neighbours and inform the police so they can deal with it. This is now acceptable, people cannot go outside their front door? 

Doing it for the money? What money is there to be made? 

I never made a cent from my opinions. There personal opinions. Majority of people, who don’t believe the official narratives, are just expressing a different point of view. I know different opinions are not liked by debunkers, but thats life.

igCorcaigh

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Virologists contemplate all right, this virus showed up in an animal first and then was passed into humans, it’s a valid assumption. 

What individuals on different forums online have not caught on to yet though,  Covid-19 has never been observed before in any animal. All they have found so far it’s similar to SARS with differences!

If a Virologist positions they know for sure this new virus came from an animal there bull****ting. Until they find this virus present in an animal they are just speculating like the rest of us to the cause of the outbreak.

It’s humorous some humans think they cannot tamper with viruses in a workshop lab.  Militaries have been constructing biological weapons for decades.

Truth is some countries have introduced soft Martial lockdown, to deny that is fantasy. Some government heads have even suggested rounding up people for hanging out in their front garden and there asking people to spy on their neighbours. It’s a dyspotian way of living and lot of individuals seemly do not notice or care we now spying on other people and being suspious of them. It now a slowroll out to Orwell 1984 

There has been some viral testing on animals like bats, but how on earth could we test even a small fraction of wild animals for existing viruses, let alone the possibility of any novel one?

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Well, no  I just saw a man chatting about the new normal,. We’re barely two months into this shutdown and already suggestions are being made we all sneak on our neighbours and inform the police so they can deal with it. This is now acceptable, people cannot go outside their front door? 

who has suggested we inform on our neighbours? Even the taoiseach dismissed such a suggestion. Perhaps you need to meet a better class of people?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Doing it for the money? What money is there to be made? 

Waters was a journalist before he lost his best gig. He needs to find a grift as nowhere legitimate will hire him. That only leaves the lunatic fringe.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I never made a cent from my opinions. There personal opinions. Majority of people, who don’t believe the official narratives, are just expressing a different point of view. I know different opinions are not liked by debunkers, but thats life.

I never claimed you did make money from this. I dont even know you.

Cheerful Spring2

igCorcaigh wrote: »

There has been some viral testing on animals like bats, but how on earth could we test even a small fraction of wild animals for existing viruses, let alone the possibility of any novel one?

Virologists have been studying bat flu like diseases for decades. They never saw this one.

That’s my point how can you rule it out this is a bioweapon when there no evidence found yet this came from another animal? 

Any suggestion it could be a bioweapon is discounted by the official media    

China has not yet turned up patient zero, I find this very strange if someone was passing this into others in Nov.

Was Subject ‘Patient zero not suffering or ill from the virus? There's another way that would explain why there no patient zero , the virus was leaked intentionally.

The examination of this event is shameful.  We should demand more info about the first reported case in Nov, a 55 year old Chinese person. Where did this person work (stuff like this) we may be able to trace back where the person visited, and we then may have a good idea the wet markets was not the origin place for the disease.

Cheerful Spring2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

who has suggested we inform on our neighbours? Even the taoiseach dismissed such a suggestion. Perhaps you need to meet a better class of people?



Waters was a journalist before he lost his best gig. He needs to find a grift as nowhere legitimate will hire him. That only leaves the lunatic fringe.



I never claimed you did make money from this. I dont even know you.

Lunatic fringe? For me you showing how out of touch you are. I  saw lot of people talking about informing on their neighbours on forums and wishing for it to happen. I guess it all imagined. Garda patrols are imaginary too?

People asked to stay in home and not come out is not a conspiracy. We only at the beginning of this lockdown. People thinking this be all over by May are not living in the real world. A lockdown into the summer is going to sink the economy and fact people don’t see that amazes me. What happens when tax returns are low and more people join the dole register. Some people have not thought that far ahead.  This new normal is frightening and about time we deal with the problem. 

Irish leaders are dumb ****s. How brilliant was their decisions, really., some people could see this virus was advancing in Italy and yet Irish leaders were going on TV programs telling people we can’t shut down air travel.  The incompetence is astonishing. Now we borrow heavily again to get out of this mess and closing down the country.

You opinion about Waters is wrong. Go ahead believe makes you feel better. 

Ipso

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Virologists contemplate all right, this virus showed up in an animal first and then was passed into humans, it’s a valid assumption. 

What individuals on different forums online have not caught on to yet though,  Covid-19 has never been observed before in any animal. All they have found so far it’s similar to SARS with differences!

If a Virologist positions they know for sure this new virus came from an animal there bull****ting. Until they find this virus present in an animal they are just speculating like the rest of us to the cause of the outbreak.

It’s humorous some humans think they cannot tamper with viruses in a workshop lab.  Militaries have been constructing biological weapons for decades.

Truth is some countries have introduced soft Martial lockdown, to deny that is fantasy. Some government heads have even suggested rounding up people for hanging out in their front garden and there asking people to spy on their neighbours. It’s a dyspotian way of living and lot of individuals seemly do not notice or care we now spying on other people and being suspious of them. It now a slowroll out to Orwell 1984 

Give it a rest. Pandemics are part of human history (even the middle ages was full if sad bastids blaming the jews for the plague).
This is a disease where a large number of people are asymptomaticnand is four time more infectious than the flu. Hows the hell do you think it should be dealt with?
I really hope troofer tin foil types try to prove something and get it (and not infect anyone else). They’re a pox on society, not to mention predictable and tiring.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Lunatic fringe? For me you showing how out of touch you are. I  saw lot of people talking about informing on their neighbours on forums and wishing for it to happen. I guess it all imagined. Garda patrols are imaginary too?

perhaps stay away from the worst side of reddit.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

People asked to stay in home and not come out is not a conspiracy. We only at the beginning of this lockdown. People thinking this be all over by May are not living in the real world. A lockdown into the summer is going to sink the economy and fact people don’t see that amazes me. What happens when tax returns are low and more people join the dole register. Some people have not thought that far ahead.  This new normal is frightening and about time we deal with the problem. 

Irish leaders are dumb ****s. How brilliant was their decisions, really., some people could see this virus was advancing in Italy and yet Irish leaders were going on TV programs telling people we can’t shut down air travel.  The incompetence is astonishing. Now we borrow heavily again to get out of this mess and closing down the country.

You opinion about Waters is wrong. Go ahead believe makes you feel better. 

waters has adopted the loonier of the coronavirus/5g conspiracies.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »


If a Virologist positions they know for sure this new virus came from an animal there bull****ting. Until they find this virus present in an animal they are just speculating like the rest of us to the cause of the outbreak.

They aren't "just speculating like the rest of us"

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Lunatic fringe? For me you showing how out of touch you are. I  saw lot of people talking about informing on their neighbours on forums and wishing for it to happen.

What are you talking about?

If you see your neighbours holding a house party, you call the police, why? because they are putting people's lives at risk.

You aren't "snitching" on them, this isn't 1980's East Germany. You are potentially saving people's lives. Even if they are morons.

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They aren't "just speculating like the rest of us"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Theories of SARS-CoV-2 origins

It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for binding to human ACE2 with an efficient solution different from those previously predicted7,11. Furthermore, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used19. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone20. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer. We also discuss whether selection during passage could have given rise to SARS-CoV-2.

1. Natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer
As many early cases of COVID-19 were linked to the Huanan market in Wuhan1,2, it is possible that an animal source was present at this location. Given the similarity of SARS-CoV-2 to bat SARS-CoV-like coronaviruses2, it is likely that bats serve as reservoir hosts for its progenitor. Although RaTG13, sampled from a Rhinolophus affinis bat1, is ~96% identical overall to SARS-CoV-2, its spike diverges in the RBD, which suggests that it may not bind efficiently to human ACE27 (Fig. 1a).

Malayan pangolins (Manis javanica) illegally imported into Guangdong province contain coronaviruses similar to SARS-CoV-221. Although the RaTG13 bat virus remains the closest to SARS-CoV-2 across the genome1, some pangolin coronaviruses exhibit strong similarity to SARS-CoV-2 in the RBD, including all six key RBD residues21 (Fig. 1). This clearly shows that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein optimized for binding to human-like ACE2 is the result of natural selection.

Neither the bat betacoronaviruses nor the pangolin betacoronaviruses sampled thus far have polybasic cleavage sites. Although no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2, the diversity of coronaviruses in bats and other species is massively undersampled. Mutations, insertions and deletions can occur near the S1–S2 junction of coronaviruses22, which shows that the polybasic cleavage site can arise by a natural evolutionary process. For a precursor virus to acquire both the polybasic cleavage site and mutations in the spike protein suitable for binding to human ACE2, an animal host would probably have to have a high population density (to allow natural selection to proceed efficiently) and an ACE2-encoding gene that is similar to the human ortholog.

But yea. I suppose all of that is about equal to the specualtions of randos on the internet.

I'm sure Cheerfuls welding experience makes him an expert in virology too.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9



But yea. I suppose all of that is about equal to the specualtions of randos on the internet.

I'm sure Cheerfuls welding experience makes him an expert in virology too.

And yet this is what I said was true yesterday and the nature article confirms it.

They have not found the same virus in Bats or Pangolins yet.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

And yet this is what I said was true yesterday and the nature article confirms it.

They have not found the same virus in Bats or Pangolins yet.

The most important word in your whole post.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What are you talking about?

If you see your neighbours holding a house party, you call the police, why? because they are putting people's lives at risk.

You aren't "snitching" on them, this isn't 1980's East Germany. You are potentially saving people's lives. Even if they are morons.

The Irish state not sharing all the minutiae details about the virus path right now.. We don't know the current dangers at all! How many people are at risk? There's 8,000 cases with a population of near 5 million. Where is the evidence we had to lockdown the whole country?

Current situation and this could have been avoided weeks ago. 
Over sixty percent of cases are known to be in Dublin and Cork ( there your lockdown epicentre) clearly this where you lockdown hard and stop everything.


We have Less than 40 percent of cases rest of the country ( we talking low hundreds in some counties ) There we could eradicate the disease spread rapidly by spraying down the streets and finding out whereabouts the got the sickness from. The Chinese model has not been adopted in this country to cleanse the streets, we just staying indoors and government just deals with cases that emerge. I think it just silliness since the majority of people will still work everyday and there the most likely people to have the virus now.  If you want to get rid of go full military lockdown and stop all work for a couple of weeks and do your cleansing.
 
What pisses me off is leaders are getting off scot free for their incompetence and its small business owners and citizens who have to suffer now.  Just making the brave decisions weeks ago when this was hitting Italy bad we would have avoided all this pain. It not like we didn’t know what was going to happen. When you have weak leaders this what happens. 

Lonesomerhodes

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Lunatic fringe? For me you showing how out of touch you are. I  saw lot of people talking about informing on their neighbours on forums and wishing for it to happen. I guess it all imagined. Garda patrols are imaginary too?

People asked to stay in home and not come out is not a conspiracy. We only at the beginning of this lockdown. People thinking this be all over by May are not living in the real world. A lockdown into the summer is going to sink the economy and fact people don’t see that amazes me. What happens when tax returns are low and more people join the dole register. Some people have not thought that far ahead.  This new normal is frightening and about time we deal with the problem. 

Irish leaders are dumb ****s. How brilliant was their decisions, really., some people could see this virus was advancing in Italy and yet Irish leaders were going on TV programs telling people we can’t shut down air travel.  The incompetence is astonishing. Now we borrow heavily again to get out of this mess and closing down the country.

You opinion about Waters is wrong. Go ahead believe makes you feel better. 

Heres the thing pal. Thats all sense BUT

No matter WHAT the governments do people here are so brainwashed so dumbed down so naive they think its all for their benefit. Varadkar could say tomorrow you have to chop your toes off to prevent covid19 and they do it. They are that docile.

All cooped up in their homes for weeks on end because Leo read his script and said they had to stay at home.

Its beyond pathetic.

There is people on these forums who think their post count being high is desperately important when its all vacuous nonsense. Honestly to them spending hours and hours a day on this is some sort of a life.
Truly sad.

They will ignore Sweden not being in lockdown and same for Belarus.

In fact as of today 13.4.2020 Ireland has more than ten times Covid19 deaths than Belarus and they have no lockdown or restrictions. NOTHING.

26 to over 300!.

Then they come back with some drivel about Belarus being a dictatorship or something when they are under house arrest terrified to leave their homes and potentially fined for doing so.


No point posting sense on this as they will all jump on you. Live life.

Enjoy what little traces of freedom we have left.


They will come back with umpteen responses and be on here waiting all day to goad you to react to their government praise and Varadkar admiration.

Reminds me of that South Park episode where they took on this guy who spent all day everyday playing a video game. Funny line
"How can you kill that which has no life?".

So the merry go round here goes on and on and

going nowhere as Therapy sang.

Take care. Enjoy life.

Over and out.

Im off for a long cycle with the little one.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The Irish state not sharing all the minutiae details about the virus path right now.. We don't know the current dangers at all! How many people are at risk? There's 8,000 cases with a population of near 5 million. Where is the evidence we had to lockdown the whole country?

Current situation and this could have been avoided weeks ago. 
Over sixty percent of cases are known to be in Dublin and Cork ( there your lockdown epicentre) clearly this where you lockdown hard and stop everything.


We have Less than 40 percent of cases rest of the country ( we talking low hundreds in some counties ) There we could eradicate the disease spread rapidly by spraying down the streets and finding out whereabouts the got the sickness from. The Chinese model has not been adopted in this country to cleanse the streets, we just staying indoors and government just deals with cases that emerge. I think it just silliness since the majority of people will still work everyday and there the most likely people to have the virus now.  If you want to get rid of go full military lockdown and stop all work for a couple of weeks and do your cleansing.
 
What pisses me off is leaders are getting off scot free for their incompetence and its small business owners and citizens who have to suffer now.  Just making the brave decisions weeks ago when this was hitting Italy bad we would have avoided all this pain. It not like we didn’t know what was going to happen. When you have weak leaders this what happens.

There are so many weird contradictions in this I don't know where to start. Also it seems to be a complaint about the virus response, and not anything to do with conspiracies

Sounds like you want martial law, but you think people complaining about their neighbours is "snitching", you can't stand authoritarianism, yet you seem to espouse chinese authoritarianism, the whole thing is so confused. And of course, hindsight is great.

Dohnjoe

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

No matter WHAT the governments do people here are so brainwashed so dumbed down so naive they think its all for their benefit. Varadkar could say tomorrow you have to chop your toes off to prevent covid19 and they do it. They are that docile.

ll cooped up in their homes for weeks on end because Leo read his script and said they had to stay at home.

Its beyond pathetic.

Right.

So you're the leader of the country, the virus has hit, what would you do differently from what Leo is doing right now

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are so many weird contradictions in this I don't know where to start. Also it seems to be a complaint about the virus response, and not anything to do with conspiracies

Sounds like you want martial law, but you think people complaining about their neighbours is "snitching", you can't stand authoritarianism, yet you seem to espouse chinese authoritarianism, the whole thing is so confused. And of course, hindsight is great.

I do believe it, the Irish government has no policy. They just participants and taking advice from abroad.

I see the FG supporters on forums think the government doing a marvellous job

Reality is Borrowing heavily again to stop the economy from crashing, it not  a way forward for the future. Who’s going to be paying for all this? Its the employees who have to pay up with new taxes.

Politicians should be taking a pay cut since they are the fools who felt it wasn’t time to shut down air travel.

Dohnjoe
We here now, so a lockdown needs to count and not be carried out half arsed.  I would have done a Chinese model cleansing for the whole country and try to get this over and done with in weeks. No air travel at all.. A lockdown for months and months to a year is stupid.  We still even at this stage only at low number of cases and we could end this by the summer. People can take the pain if they see proactive measures county by county to stop the spread. You don't need to close down all small business. You clean county by county and then keep out people who don't need to be travelling there for unneccesary reasons.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Right.

So you're the leader of the country, the virus has hit, what would you do differently from what Leo is doing right now

What was employment rate a month ago?
Do elected politicians not take the blame for this?
When are they going to admit not closing down the airports was a mistake?

Cheerful Spring2

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Heres the thing pal. Thats all sense BUT

No matter WHAT the governments do people here are so brainwashed so dumbed down so naive they think its all for their benefit. Varadkar could say tomorrow you have to chop your toes off to prevent covid19 and they do it. They are that docile.

All cooped up in their homes for weeks on end because Leo read his script and said they had to stay at home.

Its beyond pathetic.

There is people on these forums who think their post count being high is desperately important when its all vacuous nonsense. Honestly to them spending hours and hours a day on this is some sort of a life.
Truly sad.

They will ignore Sweden not being in lockdown and same for Belarus.

In fact as of today 13.4.2020 Ireland has more than ten times Covid19 deaths than Belarus and they have no lockdown or restrictions. NOTHING.

26 to over 300!.

Then they come back with some drivel about Belarus being a dictatorship or something when they are under house arrest terrified to leave their homes and potentially fined for doing so.


No point posting sense on this as they will all jump on you. Live life.

Enjoy what little traces of freedom we have left.


They will come back with umpteen responses and be on here waiting all day to goad you to react to their government praise and Varadkar admiration.

Reminds me of that South Park episode where they took on this guy who spent all day everyday playing a video game. Funny line
"How can you kill that which has no life?".

So the merry go round here goes on and on and

going nowhere as Therapy sang.

Take care. Enjoy life.

Over and out.

Im off for a long cycle with the little one.

Dohnjoe quote
And of course, hindsight is great.

It was commonsense the virus would come here from abroad by travel. You did not need a crystal ball to predict this outcome. You're right the government apologists are everywhere.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

What was employment rate a month ago?
Do elected politicians not take the blame for this?
When are they going to admit not closing down the airports was a mistake?

Your complaints are so confused

You want a heavy handed authoritarian approach or you don't want one?

Unemployment rates are high, because certain businesses can't pay their employees due to the fact there is no business when everything is shut down, you do understand that right? this is occurring all over the world, not just Ireland..

Of course they'll have to borrow money to deal with this, what else are they supposed to do?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Dohnjoe quote
And of course, hindsight is great.

It was commonsense the virus would come here from abroad by travel. You did not need a crystal ball to predict this outcome. You're right the government apologists are everywhere.

Okay, and? The virus is still entering China today from abroad despite strict controls.

Also, it's in every country in the world, why on earth are you complaining so bitterly about Ireland in particular?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, and? The virus is still entering China today from abroad despite strict controls.

Also, it's in every country in the world, why on earth are you complaining so bitterly about Ireland in particular?

Forgetting why that has now taken place Dohnjoe?
Why do you prepare excuses for something that was clearly preventable?
You forgetting this virus appeared in China (we saw what happened there) it hit Iran next (we saw) it hit Italy we saw .
We had 0 cases then.  
Were leaders here not smart enough to see what was coming?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Forgetting why that has now taken place Dohnjoe?
Why do you prepare excuses for something that was clearly preventable?
You forgetting this virus appeared in China (we saw what happened there) it hit Iran next (we saw) it hit Italy we saw .
We had 0 cases then.  
Were leaders here not smart enough to see what was coming?

Basically every country in the world has the disease, why are you singling out Ireland?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Basically every country in the world has the disease, why are you singling out Ireland?

We are an Island country;) How else can a virus get here from another country? Use your brain. We should be one country virus free. Instead we locking down the whole country because our leaders hadn't the balls to make the correct decisions and close down air travel to visitors from outside the country. We were letting people travel to Italy when the virus was killing hundreds there.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

We are an Island country;) How else can a virus get here from another country? Use your brain. We should be one country virus free. Instead we locking down the whole country because our leaders hadn't the balls to make the correct decisions and close down air travel to visitors from outside the country. We were letting people travel to Italy when the virus was killing hundreds there.

So with hindsight, Ireland should have closed all borders, not a single person, not a single flight in or out, no private yachts, no ferries, nothing in or out (which no country has yet managed to do) - as leader of the country you would have done that on what date?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

So with hindsight, Ireland should have closed all borders, not a single person, not a single flight in or out, no private yachts, no ferries, nothing in or out (which no country has yet managed to do yet) - as leader of the country you would have done that on what date?

Yes . Did you think China was closing down an entire province with 60 million people for the fun of it? The signs was there a major epidemic had taken place and rest of the world was at risk.

Once it moved to other countries, the warning signs where there it was a disease passed from human to human by transmission. I commented in Jan on another thread Ireland is at risk now and we need to be thinking about closing down airports. I wasn’t alone, lot of people felt the same way.