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Sexual harassment advert

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13

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Midster wrote: »
    That’s it throw your dummy out the pram cause I made yet another good point

    Lol.
    And you ignore all posts that you don't like!


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    #63
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Midster wrote: »
    That’s it throw your dummy out the pram cause I made yet another good point

    Yet another good point? You're yet to make one good point.


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    #64
    bennyl10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Midster wrote: »
    What I got from the add is it’s an open field day for any woman who doesn’t like a mans approach.

    Don’t like what he’s saying, report him

    Doesn’t like his body language, report him

    Doesn’t like the fact he laid a finger on you, for any reason, report him.

    Why don’t we just close all the pubs, ban all social interactions of any kind between male and females, and from this day on only talk to members of the opposite sex online, and then find a way instead to send sperm through the post perhaps.

    Have online dads raising there kids then, and have a future we’re the biggest business on the planet is childcare.

    If you make people (men especially) to afraid to come over and talk to you because everything they say and do could possibly end up landing them in jail or with a criminal record.

    They won’t!!!

    And that’s exactly the kind of future we will have.

    This is the entire point of the ad.
    Maybe don't approach anyone by trying to touch them?

    In the ad she makes it very clear she doesn't want to engage with him.
    He should back the feck off.


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    #65
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,238 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Unfortunately, OP is proof of both why these kinds of ads are necessary, and why they won't change the minds of the people they're aimed at.


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    #66
    Dytalus
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Dytalus


    Penn wrote: »
    Unfortunately, OP is proof of both why these kinds of ads are necessary, and why they won't change the minds of the people they're aimed at.

    To the Government's credit, they also raise awareness of the No Excuses campaign. I took a look at the page, and part of it is about giving advice to bystanders on how to handle seeing this (along with more serious forms of sexual abuse/assault). Advice on defusing a situation, distracting a perpetrator, contact details for organisations/Garda if you suspect something needs to be reported/investigated.

    It might not convince the type of people who do this sort of thing, but it might give tools and methods to everyone else that can help improve things indirectly.


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    #67
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    Midster wrote: »
    That’s it throw your dummy out the pram cause I made yet another good point

    I won't even dignify this with a response


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    #68
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Referring to the advert ... the lady makes it clear that no, she does not want a drink and gently moves his arm away from her back.
    He returns his hand to her back.

    This is where I get a bit confused(?) .... why can she not tell the guy to remove his hand immediately as she has no interest in his attention at all?
    Is there some reason she cannot or does not do this?

    She could help herself if she made it absolutely clear by saying something like 'take your hand off me'.

    Maybe some of the females (particularly) posting would let me know why this was not done in this example. Is it common for such things to happen without a definite 'no' to an unwanted approach?

    BTW, IMO, that the guy returned his hand after it being removed, indicates that he is not very receptive to the gentle 'brush off', so apparently something more definite is called for.

    Overall I think the ad does a disservice to everyone.
    It should instead encourage women to be more definite and clear in their rejection and to express their displeasure at the manner of the approach in such circumstances.


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    #69
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,157 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Referring to the advert ... the lady makes it clear that no, she does not want a drink and gently moves his arm away from her back.
    He returns his hand to her back.

    This is where I get a bit confused(?) .... why can she not tell the guy to remove his hand immediately as she has no interest in his attention at all?
    Is there some reason she cannot or does not do this?

    She could help herself if she made it absolutely clear by saying something like 'take your hand off me'.

    Maybe some of the females (particularly) posting would let me know why this was not done in this example. Is it common for such things to happen without a definite 'no' to an unwanted approach?

    BTW, IMO, that the guy returned his hand after it being removed, indicates that he is not very receptive to the gentle 'brush off', so apparently something more definite is called for.

    Overall I think the ad does a disservice to everyone.
    It should instead encourage women to be more definite and clear in their rejection and to express their displeasure at the manner of the approach in such circumstances.

    she moves his hand away from her. You would have to be dense to think that she wants you to put it back. and if she does get vocal about it she generally gets called a bitch.


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    #70
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    she moves his hand away from her. You would have to be dense to think that she wants you to put it back. and if she does get vocal about it she generally gets called a bitch.

    Which point I already covered .. so what else have you to say about what I posted?

    You wish to maintain there are no dense customers in pubs or nightclubs?


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    #71
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Referring to the advert ... the lady makes it clear that no, she does not want a drink and gently moves his arm away from her back.
    He returns his hand to her back.

    This is where I get a bit confused(?) .... why can she not tell the guy to remove his hand immediately as she has no interest in his attention at all?
    Is there some reason she cannot or does not do this?

    She could help herself if she made it absolutely clear by saying something like 'take your hand off me'.

    Maybe some of the females (particularly) posting would let me know why this was not done in this example. Is it common for such things to happen without a definite 'no' to an unwanted approach?

    BTW, IMO, that the guy returned his hand after it being removed, indicates that he is not very receptive to the gentle 'brush off', so apparently something more definite is called for.

    Overall I think the ad does a disservice to everyone.
    It should instead encourage women to be more definite and clear in their rejection and to express their displeasure at the manner of the approach in such circumstances.

    Have you ever responded to unwanted attention?

    I saw a woman do it on a bus once, when the guy sitting beside her put his hand on her knee. She asked him to take his hand off her and not to touch her. What happened ? Other passengers stood up for the creep, why should she make a show of him in public was the consensus.

    A friend of mine was coerced into going back to a guys apartment when she didn't want to because she was scared. She didn't want to have a drink with him but he was so convincing, she didn't want to kiss him but it happened. She didn't want to go back to his but it happened and she said no. She said no multiple times. It still happened. She was afraid he'd physically assault her.

    There are a tonne of examples.


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    #72
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,157 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Which point I already covered .. so what else have you to say about what I posted?

    You wish to maintain there are no dense customers in pubs or nightclubs?

    I also responded as to why. Strong negative reactions from women often lead to much stronger negative reactions from men who are too dense to understand that their advances are unwarranted. the issue is not with the women, the issue is with the men.


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    #73
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I also responded as to why. Strong negative reactions from women often lead to much stronger negative reactions from men who are too dense to understand that their advances are unwarranted. the issue is not with the women, the issue is with the men.

    This.


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    #74
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,412 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Midster wrote: »
    Now they have aired the advert, let’s see how many men’s lives are ruined completely by an innocent conversational gesture.

    At a guess, zero.

    Do you know of many cases of men's lives being ruined completely by an innocent conversational gesture?


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    #75
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »

    This is where I get a bit confused(?) .... why can she not tell the guy to remove his hand immediately as she has no interest in his attention at all?
    Is there some reason she cannot or does not do this?

    She could help herself if she made it absolutely clear by saying something like 'take your hand off me'.

    BTW, IMO, that the guy returned his hand after it being removed, indicates that he is not very receptive to the gentle 'brush off', so apparently something more definite is called for.

    You're not confused, you're deliberately thick. Stop touching women. You actually don't have a right to put your hand on a woman, ever. Wait until she puts hers on you and seems to genuinely welcome a touch. Wtf is so hard about that. When they say, no you're grand, or stop, or remove your hand, it's clear. He put his hand on her again anyway.

    If Mr Randy isn't very receptive, that's HIS problem, not hers.

    The definite thing called for here is he should keep his hands to himself and speak to her instead.


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    #76
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    dancingqueen wrote: »
    Have you ever responded to unwanted attention?

    I saw a woman do it on a bus once, when the guy sitting beside her put his hand on her knee. She asked him to take his hand off her and not to touch her. What happened ? Other passengers stood up for the creep, why should she make a show of him in public was the consensus.

    A friend of mine was coerced into going back to a guys apartment when she didn't want to because she was scared. She didn't want to have a drink with him but he was so convincing, she didn't want to kiss him but it happened. She didn't want to go back to his but it happened and she said no. She said no multiple times. It still happened. She was afraid he'd physically assault her.

    There are a tonne of examples.

    I referred to the advert and the scene it showed.
    I asked specifically about it.

    You have not addressed the advert and what it shows at all.

    Are you saying she is obviously scared of the guy?
    What exactly are you saying - in relation to the advert?


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    #77
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,157 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I referred to the advert and the scene it showed.
    I asked specifically about it.

    You have not addressed the advert and what it shows at all.

    Are you saying she is obviously scared of the guy?
    What exactly are you saying - in relation to the advert?

    the point they are making is very clear. Perhaps you need somebody to shout the answer loudly into your face?


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    #78
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I referred to the advert and the scene it showed.
    I asked specifically about it.

    You have not addressed the advert and what it shows at all.

    Are you saying she is obviously scared of the guy?
    What exactly are you saying - in relation to the advert?

    That everyone acts differently in times of distress

    It isn't always black and white

    Why didn't she do X, Y or Z are not legitimate questions to ask when a woman is put in an uncomfortable position because you don't know her

    That it is not your place to determine how anyone should act towards unwanted touching or attention


    Do you need more examples?


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    #79
    FullMoonFever
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FullMoonFever


    It's the other ad for sexual harassment that I find confusing.

    The one with the drunk girl on the street being helped up by the stranger.

    I think the implication is that his actions are leading somewhere sinister.

    If a guy sees a girl passed out in the street are they supposed to just walk over her rather than help her?


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    #80
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    dancingqueen wrote: »
    That everyone acts differently in times of distress

    It isn't always black and white

    Why didn't she do X, Y or Z are not legitimate questions to ask when a woman is put in an uncomfortable position because you don't know her

    That it is not your place to determine how anyone should act towards unwanted touching or attention


    Do you need more examples?

    You are apparently not reading what I wrote.
    I did not make any 'determination' that I recall.
    I asked questions about what the advert portrayed.
    I asked why she could or would not be more definite in rejecting the 'advance'.


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    #81
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    You are apparently not reading what I wrote.
    I did not make any 'determination' that I recall.
    I asked questions about what the advert portrayed.
    I asked why she could or would not be more definite in rejecting the 'advance'.

    Why should any of us determine that? She very clearly rejects him in the advert. Is that not enough for you? What do you need to be told no? A neon sign?

    My points address the reasons why she may not be of a certain disposition however, noone can say why, because everyone and every situation is different.

    The way you are addressing it makes it appear as though you think a shrug off isn't a no. It's a ****ing no.


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    #82
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    FullMoonFever wrote: »
    It's the other ad for sexual harassment that I find confusing.

    The one with the drunk girl on the street being helped up by the stranger.

    I think the implication is that his actions are leading somewhere sinister.

    If a guy sees a girl passed out in the street are they supposed to just walk over her rather than help her?

    How do you know he's helping her , that's the point. You might think oh it's grand because there's a strong looking man there with her. That might not be grand though. If you suspect something sinister, check on the vulnerable person. We've all seen things like this on nights out.


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    #83
    FullMoonFever
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FullMoonFever


    dancingqueen wrote: »
    How do you know he's helping her , that's the point. You might think oh it's grand because there's a strong looking man there with her. That might not be grand though. If you suspect something sinister, check on the vulnerable person. We've all seen things like this on nights out.

    While I sort of agree with what you are saying, my take away from the ad was if you help a vulnerable woman on a night out be prepared to be suspected of ulterior motives.

    I just think the ad and message has been poorly conveyed.


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    #84
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    FullMoonFever wrote: »
    While I sort of agree with what you are saying, my take away from the ad was if you help a vulnerable woman on a night out be prepared to be suspected of ulterior motives.

    I just think the ad and message has been poorly conveyed.

    Yeah I can see that side of it too. I have in the past looked at this situation and wondered if I'd be helping or butting my nose in to someone else's business.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I asked questions about what the advert portrayed.
    I asked why she could or would not be more definite in rejecting the 'advance'.

    More definite then saying no & moving his hand?
    What more do you need?
    If you put your hand on me & I moved it off, would you feel like you should do it again?


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    #86
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    bubblypop wrote: »
    More definite then saying no & moving his hand?

    Does saying no to the offer of a drink have more meaning than refusing the drink?
    Does it mean NO to all contact or conversation etc.?
    What does it mean from you?
    What more do you need?
    If you put your hand on me & I moved it off, would you feel like you should do it again?

    No, and I have already addressed that in my original post .... maybe read it again?


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    #87
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    You actually don't have a right to put your hand on a woman, ever. Wait until she puts hers on you,,,

    hmmm


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    #88
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    You're not confused, you're deliberately thick.

    Ah yes ... not unexpected I guess, as personal attacks are the last resort of ....... <fill in as you wish>
    Stop touching women..

    Your stupid accusations are meaningless.
    You actually don't have a right to put your hand on a woman, ever. Wait until she puts hers on you and seems to genuinely welcome a touch. Wtf is so hard about that.

    She has no more right to touch me than I her!
    That would be harassment .... could I complain about such a touch?

    Are you not being a little one-sided with that attitude?


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    #89
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,794 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Referring to the advert ... the lady makes it clear that no, she does not want a drink and gently moves his arm away from her back.
    He returns his hand to her back.

    This is where I get a bit confused(?) .... why can she not tell the guy to remove his hand immediately as she has no interest in his attention at all?
    Is there some reason she cannot or does not do this?

    She could help herself if she made it absolutely clear by saying something like 'take your hand off me'.

    Maybe some of the females (particularly) posting would let me know why this was not done in this example. Is it common for such things to happen without a definite 'no' to an unwanted approach?

    BTW, IMO, that the guy returned his hand after it being removed, indicates that he is not very receptive to the gentle 'brush off', so apparently something more definite is called for.

    Overall I think the ad does a disservice to everyone.
    It should instead encourage women to be more definite and clear in their rejection and to express their displeasure at the manner of the approach in such circumstances.

    Most people will try not to escalate the situation.

    By physically removing the hand you are sending a clear message that it's not welcome there.

    If you say something it runs the risk of the situation becoming aggressive.

    If someone offers a drink and the offer is declined and they turn back to doing whatever it was they were doing, then that's it game over, they genuinely don't want any more interaction with you.

    If they say no, but stay chatting they may be sussing you out, but don't want to give you a false hope. You would be amazed at the amount of guys who think buying a drink automatically gives them rights.


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    #90
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »

    She has no more right to touch me than I her!
    That would be harassment .... could I complain about such a touch?

    Are you not being a little one-sided with that attitude?

    Got you there. I knew you'd reply as such to that comment. Why can't you just remove her hand if you're not interested? PS: make sure your signals are super clear.

    So you're not confused, you just admitted she would have no more right to touch you than you do her. So wtf are you confused about? Why you can't just stroke a woman's back anyway despite clear signals she doesn't like it?


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    #91
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Got you there. I knew you'd reply as such to that comment. Why can't you just remove her hand if you're not interested? PS: make sure your signals are super clear.

    So you're not confused, you just admitted she would have no more right to touch you than you do her. So wtf are you confused about? Why you can't just stroke a woman's back anyway despite clear signals she doesn't like it?

    do you get hyperbole?


This discussion has been closed.
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