2021 Bride/Groom

qwerty13

I posted about this before, which seemed to annoy some folk. But if you’re joining financial assets together, or viewing them as such, or if you’re planning on having kids - get married. If only for the legal protection of those that you love. The party can happen at any time. Being left sorting out an horrendous legal mess if not married, and anything were to happen, not so good.

Of course it would be ideal if both the legal contract and party happened together, but that’s not the way the world is at the moment.

woodchuck

qwerty13 wrote: »

I posted about this before, which seemed to annoy some folk. But if you’re joining financial assets together, or viewing them as such, or if you’re planning on having kids - get married. If only for the legal protection of those that you love. The party can happen at any time. Being left sorting out an horrendous legal mess if not married, and anything were to happen, not so good.

Of course it would be ideal if both the legal contract and party happened together, but that’s not the way the world is at the moment.

Yeah we really don't want to put off the legal bit indefinitely. Can you elaborate about the potential "legal mess" though?

We own a house together and we're both on the deeds. My understanding is that if one of us dies, it's not actually an issue - the mortgage protection will pay off the remainder of the house and the house will then be owned fully by the surviving person (can't remember where we found this information, but we looked into it before as it was a concern).

Now overall inheritance and hospital decisions is another matter, I know. But maybe we could get wills draw up to bridge the gap.

We don't have kids yet.

I really do want the legal bit done and dusted, but I can't see us having the time, energy or money to plan a wedding reception at a later date if we do have kids in the meantime. I also probably just wouldn't be arsed tbh. Why would I get dressed up as a bride if I've already been married months or years - I think I'd just feel silly tbh (no offense intended to anyone going down this route and we may still end up doing this ourselves...). So I'd just end up incredible bitter that I never had "my day" and there would be so many negative emotions any time we're invited to someone else's wedding in the future.

It's just easier said than done really. I really do feel that there is an appropriate time for every couple to get married and to celebrate the wedding, and this is our time. If we don't do the wedding reception soon, I feel we'll have missed the boat entirely, as we'll have moved on to the next chapter of our lives. I don't want to make the huge sacrifice of never having a proper wedding reception (legal bit only, reception "later", i.e. potential never), on the extreme off chance that one of us drops dead. Especially if a will would cover us for a lot of things - maybe that's something we need to consider more closely instead of a shotgun wedding.

qwerty13

I’m saying that about the legal stuff from someone I know who wasn’t married, the partner died unexpectedly, there was no will, and he was estranged from his family. She is in a terrible situation. His family want their house to be sold, she’s devastated by their shared home having to be sold. It’s obviously all worse by having no will. But she tells me that the inheritance tax from not being married would have ruined her too. I’m not a legal person, and not one for ‘everyone should be married before living together’. But my god, her situation made me think about how important it is to have the legal protection conferred by being married.

I said it to a few friends afterwards, and they were in the exact same situation: no Wills made, not married, a joint asset. I guess I just never want to see anyone I know go through that again. Obviously made worse because he was estranged from his family, and they’re sticking the boot in.

At the very least, get legal and tax advice if you jointly own the biggest asset of your lives, and are deferring marriage, which (as far as I know, but do not take this as gospel) exempts you from inheritance tax.

PS: my understanding is that if you’re not married, you’re treated the same as strangers from an inheritance tax point of view (again, I’m not a legal person, this is coming from what my friend told me). So even if the mortgage is paid off by a life assurance policy, you’re basically treated as having been ‘gifted’ an asset from a tax point of view due to not being married. Hence massive tax bill. Please do check that out with a tax advisor though.

woodchuck

It's a horrible situation for your friend. We both have a good relationship with each other's parents though, so I wouldn't envisage any issues from either side of one of us dies.

I know it's horrible and it is worry though. Like I said, I don't want to hold off on the legal bit indefinitely. We're just trying to find a balance between doing the legal bit and having a meaningful celebration on the day itself. We never wanted a massive party. 50 would be perfect, even 25 would be good. I'm totally hung up on the safety side of things atm. With vaccines on the horizon, would we be mad to go ahead in May, especially with my parents not willing to stay for the wedding reception until they're vaccinated. Who knows when the rollout will be complete though. To be sure we'd have to push out by a whole year, but even then I don't see a situation where our brothers would be able to fly over. And who knows if we'll all need boosters next year or if there'll be issues with variants.

Not to mention being ANOTHER year older and still not trying to have kids...

At this point I'm tempted to postpone the wedding until next year and start trying for kids in the meantime. That means we'll definitely either get married or have kids next year... leave it up to faith *rolls eyes*

qwerty13

“It's a horrible situation for your friend. We both have a good relationship with each other's parents though, so I wouldn't envisage any issues from either side of one of us dies.”

Sorry, but that’s quite a bit naive. You don’t know what will happen. You don’t know how people will behave with $$ in their eyes. Maybe I’m being worst case scenario because of my pal, but at least make a Will (both of you), and legal and also tax advice as to your position if the worst happens. I don’t mean to be a downer, but my pal never wanted to be married, she actually looked down on it a bit, as in “why would anyone get married, we don’t need all that”. And now she’s in a mess. Of course it’s an unlikely (I hope) scenario, but I guess it just shows the consequences of not fully taking on board that marriage isn’t just about a celebration of the couple; it’s a legal contract that has benefits conferred by the state.

eviltwin

It doesn’t matter how well everyone gets along. A tax bill has to be paid if you are not married. It’s a huge sum so unless you have a fair whack of savings you may have to sell your home to pay it. I don’t think many couples realise the tax implications of being home owners and not being married. A friend of ours died last year having postponed his wedding and the legal stuff has been fairly traumatic for his partner to sort out.

woodchuck

I'm not being naive. Like I've said repeatedly, I have no desire to put the legal bit on hold indefinitely. I'm trying to find a balance though of getting the legal bit done and also having some sort of meaningful celebration during the ****storm that is the pandemic. Like I said, maybe a will would help if we put the wedding off again and I'll look into that.

But I'm not going to rush down to the registry office tomorrow due to one isolated horror story.

Sorry I don't mean to be short. I do appreciate your advice. The legal bit is certainly a concern, but I think I need to get proper legal advice before freaking myself out completely.

Update: I've reached out to my work EAP and I'm expecting a call back from a solicitor within a couple of days to discuss the legal and financial implications if one of us drops dead while we're unmarried.

JeffKenna

eviltwin wrote: »

It doesn’t matter how well everyone gets along. A tax bill has to be paid if you are not married. It’s a huge sum so unless you have a fair whack of savings you may have to sell your home to pay it. I don’t think many couples realise the tax implications of being home owners and not being married. A friend of ours died last year having postponed his wedding and the legal stuff has been fairly traumatic for his partner to sort out.

Have you looked up the Revenue exemption that exists for this?

eviltwin

JeffKenna wrote: »

Have you looked up the Revenue exemption that exists for this?

What is the exemption? ETA there were no exemptions when I got married, if it’s changed would be good to know, it would put people’s minds at rest

woodchuck

woodchuck wrote: »

I don't drink tea myself, so I'd be a bit clueless and worried about spilling it all over my ivory dress :P

But I get what you mean

We only just bought the house though, have an extreme lack of furniture and all the walls need a good paint (an old house). So not ideal for hosting anything or taking photos.

God, is everyone else completely overthinking things or is it just me!

You aren't over thinking. This is obviously causing you huge stress. It's a really uncertain time. We all have our own worries regarding the pandemic and on top of that the worry of organ a wedding.

Would you consider postponing? I know you want to start a family but it might be time to weigh some things up. In the immediate term a solution to your stress would be to get married in 2022. Straight away then you can start trying for a baby.

I know every woman has their own desired age for having their first and last child and obviously biology comes in to play. If how you feel now is greater than those considerations I'd seriously consider postponing.

We came close last week. I'm almost 39. The reason we didn't is because I'm not sure how well my dad will be next year. Now in saying that if our date was closer then we'd reconsider that position.

woodchuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you consider postponing?

I'd love to postpone again until Spring/Summer next year. But then I'd be 37 by the time we're married and starting to try having children. Time isn't on our side, especially if it turns out we have fertility issues. We originally planned to get married and try for kids when we were both 35 (i.e. last year).

And now I'm freaking out about inheritance tax on top of everything else. Despite the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that either of us are going to kick the bucket within the next year.

One of the OH's friends was due to get married in July and have very recently decided to postpone their wedding in Ireland. They would be travelling over from the US though and half the guestlist is in the US, so it absolutely makes sense for them. But the group whatsapp had comments along the lines of "It'll be extra special when you do get to celebrate, as it will for Mr Woodchuck". It's like they're just assuming that we've already decided to postpone again... eh, we're still hanging in there for the moment lads It just makes me feel like we shouldn't be going ahead though - like they'll be getting an awful fright if an invite arrives in the post and they'd think it's really inappropriate.

Thomasirl123

aoife1991 wrote: »

I was at a civil ceremony wedding in Rathsallagh for my best friend's wedding and it was absolutely gorgeous. Very classy and the venue took care of organising most of the details. The couple were delighted with it.

Anyone thinking of getting married at Rathsallagh needs to look at TripAdvisor and see the excuses for every bad review.

redheadcork

Deleted User wrote: »

You aren't over thinking. This is obviously causing you huge stress. It's a really uncertain time. We all have our own worries regarding the pandemic and on top of that the worry of organ a wedding.

Would you consider postponing? I know you want to start a family but it might be time to weigh some things up. In the immediate term a solution to your stress would be to get married in 2022. Straight away then you can start trying for a baby.

I know every woman has their own desired age for having their first and last child and obviously biology comes in to play. If how you feel now is greater than those considerations I'd seriously consider postponing.

We came close last week. I'm almost 39. The reason we didn't is because I'm not sure how well my dad will be next year. Now in saying that if our date was closer then we'd reconsider that position.

Hi there do you mind me asking when is your wedding date? Similar situation, 38, elderly father and potentially trying for a baby next year. We are May 1st so might end up postponing til October.

redheadcork

woodchuck wrote: »

I'd love to postpone again until Spring/Summer next year. But then I'd be 37 by the time we're married and starting to try having children. Time isn't on our side, especially if it turns out we have fertility issues. We originally planned to get married and try for kids when we were both 35 (i.e. last year).

And now I'm freaking out about inheritance tax on top of everything else. Despite the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that either of us are going to kick the bucket within the next year.

One of the OH's friends was due to get married in July and have very recently decided to postpone their wedding in Ireland. They would be travelling over from the US though and half the guestlist is in the US, so it absolutely makes sense for them. But the group whatsapp had comments along the lines of "It'll be extra special when you do get to celebrate, as it will for Mr Woodchuck". It's like they're just assuming that we've already decided to postpone again... eh, we're still hanging in there for the moment lads It just makes me feel like we shouldn't be going ahead though - like they'll be getting an awful fright if an invite arrives in the post and they'd think it's really inappropriate.

Weirdly enough, was on the phone to my godmother and she asked were we postponing. I said we’re 50/50 and asked her would she go in the current situation? Lo and behold someone knocked on the door and she had to go, I would take that as a no. My fiancés brother texts saying I presume ye are postponing. I just hate the thought of people freaking out if they are invited. But at the same time how long can we wait? If we got 25 in May and the majority of the guests we want are happy to go then I think we will go ahead. At least we can relax then from May!

woodchuck

redheadcork wrote: »

Weirdly enough, was on the phone to my godmother and she asked were we postponing. I said we’re 50/50 and asked her would she go in the current situation? Lo and behold someone knocked on the door and she had to go, I would take that as a no. My fiancés brother texts saying I presume ye are postponing. I just hate the thought of people freaking out if they are invited. But at the same time how long can we wait? If we got 25 in May and the majority of the guests we want are happy to go then I think we will go ahead. At least we can relax then from May!

Yeah that's our general attitude as well. We'd be pretty cautious, risk adverse type of couple. If weddings of 25 guests are allowed and it feels (relatively) safe to go ahead, that's what we want to do. But while the risk is worth it for the two of us (as it's our wedding), I don't think our guests will see it that way If my own parents don't want to come, how can I expect other people to.

redheadcork

redheadcork wrote: »

Hi there do you mind me asking when is your wedding date? Similar situation, 38, elderly father and potentially trying for a baby next year. We are May 1st so might end up postponing til October.

Not at all We are October 16th. I'll be a few months shy of 40 then. Now I'm very easy going regards having children or not. If we decide to go for it when I'm 40 sure we will see how the dice rolls.

My dad has had a lot of health issues in the last few months that have appeared out of the blue. It just has me thinking how quickly things can change.

I wouldn't able to cope with the stress if our wedding was this side of September because we really really don't want a 6 person day. So I'd have to weigh it all up with my dad and my nerves in mind.

woodchuck

woodchuck wrote: »

I'd love to postpone again until Spring/Summer next year. But then I'd be 37 by the time we're married and starting to try having children. Time isn't on our side, especially if it turns out we have fertility issues. We originally planned to get married and try for kids when we were both 35 (i.e. last year).

And now I'm freaking out about inheritance tax on top of everything else. Despite the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that either of us are going to kick the bucket within the next year.

One of the OH's friends was due to get married in July and have very recently decided to postpone their wedding in Ireland. They would be travelling over from the US though and half the guestlist is in the US, so it absolutely makes sense for them. But the group whatsapp had comments along the lines of "It'll be extra special when you do get to celebrate, as it will for Mr Woodchuck". It's like they're just assuming that we've already decided to postpone again... eh, we're still hanging in there for the moment lads It just makes me feel like we shouldn't be going ahead though - like they'll be getting an awful fright if an invite arrives in the post and they'd think it's really inappropriate.

Having children sooner rather than later is your priority then. It might help to find a way to accept that you are going ahead in May no matter what. That will release you from the what ifs and the worries because its being decisive.

I know you are concerned about your parents not being there and other guests maybe feeling unsafe. Postponing isn't an option though so you are torturing yourself right now thinking about all of these things.

It's a bit like "I don't want to postpone" and also "the uncertainty is stressing me out and I want the people who matter to be there" "but I don't want to postpone".

woodchuck

Just got off the phone with a solicitor after having a conversation about inheritance tax and I'm suitably freaked out. The bottom line is that if one of us dies before we're married, the survivor will have to foot a bill of ~100k in inheritance tax.

Definitely going to reconsider doing the legal bit in secret sooner rather than later...

Neyite

woodchuck wrote: »

Definitely going to reconsider doing the legal bit in secret sooner rather than later...

I'm leaning towards that myself as well. Partly because I'm just so over trying to plan a wedding. I'll decide in a month or two for sure.

qwerty13

woodchuck wrote: »

Just got off the phone with a solicitor after having a conversation about inheritance tax and I'm suitably freaked out. The bottom line is that if one of us dies before we're married, the survivor will have to foot a bill of ~100k in inheritance tax.

Definitely going to reconsider doing the legal bit in secret sooner rather than later...

I truly don’t understand how the legal person when buying a home doesn’t make this crystal clear to people. Like I said, I told everyone that I know about that, having heard the harsh reality of what can happen re my acquaintance. Obviously it is a rare scenario, but I would have thought the legal person involved in people buying a home together would have set that out to them in very clear terms. And strongly encouraged them to make Wills. Of course it’s an unusual circumstance, but a potentially devastating one.

woodchuck

qwerty13 wrote: »

I truly don’t understand how the legal person when buying a home doesn’t make this crystal clear to people. Like I said, I told everyone that I know about that, having heard the harsh reality of what can happen re my acquaintance. Obviously it is a rare scenario, but I would have thought the legal person involved in people buying a home together would have set that out to them in very clear terms. And strongly encouraged them to make Wills. Of course it’s an unusual circumstance, but a potentially devastating one.

You're paying them to assist you with a very specific task of completing a house purchase though, not to provide general advice about inheritance tax, wills etc. In our case, we were engaged when we met with the solicitor anyway. So the only issue is if one of us meets an untimely end before we legally tie the knot (which is very unlikely to happen - but obviously a concern given the pandemic and postponements).

I did mention this to one of my friends who owns a house with her partner, but they're not engaged and I have absolutely no idea if they ever plan to get married. I don't think she was aware of it, but she didn't seem too concerned. You're still better off financially overall. Worst case scenario, you need to sell the house to pay off the tax bill, but she said she probably wouldn't want to live in the house without her partner anyway. Or she could take out a loan to pay off the tax, which would be much smaller than the mortgage they're currently paying off.

In our particular situation though, it would feel so incredibly unfair if one of us was stuck with a hefty inheritance bill, since we planned to be married by now. Feckin pandemic!

Daisy03

When I bought my home as I was leaving the solicitors office with the keys my solicitor told me come back when I was settled in to make my will as it was included in the fee. This was only a couple of years ago.

There and then I told her what my plans were eg who I planned on leaving it to. Without going into detail she straight away told me there was a better way to do it from a tax point of view. A few emails later and the will was sorted for me to go in to sign. From talking to friends who bought houses around the same time they also were given legal/tax advice regarding their wills when they finalised their house purchases too.

cazzer22

How is everyone feeling after the latest leaks? I am just trying to forget it all, waiting for official announcements and very much preparing for 6 on the 10th of April. Regardless of the number, it is going to be a great day. Hope everyone else is doing OK.

confusticated

Not great to be honest. I really thought we'd be OK for 25 at the end of May but that's looking less and less likely. We had said we'd go ahead with 6 but now that it's coming down to it I just don't know. Our venue is being great to be fair and will do a meal etc for us even if it is only six but it's so hard to plan - do we bother with alterations to the bridesmaids' dresses, or order the suits for the lads? We have no rings yet either because the shops all told us to come back in January when we went looking early.

zedhead

confusticated wrote: »

Not great to be honest. I really thought we'd be OK for 25 at the end of May but that's looking less and less likely. We had said we'd go ahead with 6 but now that it's coming down to it I just don't know. Our venue is being great to be fair and will do a meal etc for us even if it is only six but it's so hard to plan - do we bother with alterations to the bridesmaids' dresses, or order the suits for the lads? We have no rings yet either because the shops all told us to come back in January when we went looking early.

I'm a bit the same. i really was feeling positive for 25 in May but its looking less likely each day. The thing is that with everything being so vague we can't plan anything. If none of the shops are open until May, how will my fiance be able to get a suit by the 7th. Are we going to be able to do the bridal dress alterations in April?
If its 25 I want to move the ceremony to the venue but if its 6 we want to just go ahead in the registry office and try and get a hotel to do a meal for us. Then we can have a party in the venue next year sometime. But I can't plan for that until I know. When do we let the guests know?

I just hate all the leaks - stop giving little snippets of info at these press conferences and release the actual plan!

woodchuck

Yeah I was sure at the start of this lockdown that we'd be back to guests of 25 by May. It's really really not looking good now. And to be honest, I don't think I'd want to go ahead in May with 25 anymore anyway. There's just far too much uncertain around everything, including the likes of hair and makeup, menu tastings, accommodation for the night, the possibility of any sort of honeymoon (even just in our own county).

I feel we need a new plan, but I don't know what that is yet. If we'll just push everything out (again!!) or try to do the legal bit soon and do the "big" wedding reception later. I might be open to the idea of going ahead with 6, but our venue can only accommodate the ceremony with those numbers, not a meal (not unless the restaurant is open to the public). So I have no idea what we'd do tbh. I don't really like the idea of doing JUST a ceremony on the day, it would be such an anticlimax. I don't see restaurants being open though and I wouldn't be keen on on having a meal at home (new house, lack of furniture etc and frankly, it just wouldn't feel special). But then do I have to go to the trouble of finding a NEW venue that will do a ceremony AND a meal under level 5 restrictions and stick with the original venue for a blessing and wedding reception later. God, it just sounds like planning 2 weddings though, 1 on very short notice... stress of that.

The only reason I'm considering getting the legal bit done sooner rather than later, is if one of us dies and the whole inheritance tax issue :rolleyes: I don't really want to be rushing having a highly substandard day just because of those concern though.

redheadcork

zedhead wrote: »

I'm a bit the same. i really was feeling positive for 25 in May but its looking less likely each day. The thing is that with everything being so vague we can't plan anything. If none of the shops are open until May, how will my fiance be able to get a suit by the 7th. Are we going to be able to do the bridal dress alterations in April?
If its 25 I want to move the ceremony to the venue but if its 6 we want to just go ahead in the registry office and try and get a hotel to do a meal for us. Then we can have a party in the venue next year sometime. But I can't plan for that until I know. When do we let the guests know?

I just hate all the leaks - stop giving little snippets of info at these press conferences and release the actual plan!

Spot on zedhead the leaks are awful, just tell us officially

redheadcork

I was feeling positive enough early this week thinking we might come out of lockdown in April and might get 25 for our wedding on May 1st. Suits would be hired last minute. Had a look at our guest list and felt once our 14 immediate family went plus a few friends and cousins we’d be happy. We’ve accepted people will say no and that’s fine. My uncle for example, I was going to ask him to come to my house to see me off (outside). So basically we would make the best of it and to be fair it would be a different wedding and that’s special in its own way. But the not knowing is killing me. This 9 weeks craic, if it’s from today it would bring us to the week before the wedding, would that mean we would then be level 4 who knows? What a nightmare.

Phrisbo

confusticated wrote: »

Not great to be honest. I really thought we'd be OK for 25 at the end of May but that's looking less and less likely.

Have an end of May date as well. I was wondering what people thought of the chances of 25 in late May.

I know it’s bleak. I understand that it’s impossible to predict the easing but if they know full well that indoor gatherings won’t be allowed until late June at the earliest they should tell us.

confusticated

Yep, it's the uncertainty. I get that it's only one day and compared to bringing back schools and construction and allowing visitors to nursing homes and loads of other things, weddings are way down the list of priorities, but equally it's not something you can just say "right, from tomorrow 25 is allowed, off ye go lads" because there's a bit of organising that can't be done if shops are closed up to then etc. The constant leaks are much worse than the official announcements.