Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

garo

slave1 wrote: »

So just finished off my system today and after a lot of researching and pricing here's my final system/cost...

18 no Canadian Solar 410w PERC Poly panels
1 BPE 5 KW Hybrid Dual MPPT inverter.
1 no safety isolating fireman's switch to solar panels.
All DC cabling and isolators.
All AC cabling and isolators
All protection devices required to inverter.
1 no Battery to inverter. Pylon tec 2.4 kw including mounting bracket.

Gross cost of €8,620, less grant of €3,000, net cost of €5,620
Excellent job, really knowledgeable chap, well open to questions and all the work was really neat.

Excellent price. I paid more for a 4.8kW install a year ago. I had some compensation in some other form. But still great job, Enjoy the system.
And ignore the curmudgeon. :rolleyes:

PS: best practice is always to turn off the AC isolator first. You really won't need to go near the battery isolator except in an emergency and the AC isolator and the fusebox solar RCBO are both not accessible or functional. What are the chances of that?

I just go AC isolator - which puts the inverter in standby mode, PV shutoff, and battery at the switch that's on the pylontech itself.

Caspero

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

"Solar's more cost effective Without the Grant!"



"...wwwwwwwwwwiiiithoutttttt the graaaaant!"

Nice lockdown moustache there Liamalot.

What's the rationale here? That the registered Solar PV installers who must do the certification to get the grant charge more than sparkies that don't have the Solar PV registration done, and the difference is greater than the value of the grant itself?

Respond with a nice song again please.

These comments are quite funny. Talk about shooting the messenger because of the inconvenient truth.
Looking back; What makes it an excellent job? Lack of understanding of hardware appropriateness, intrinsic safety and site suitability.
Sher it's grand you don't need intrinsic safety! First off; a better job wouldn't have cost any more, second you can drive on cheap tyres all you want...nothing illegal about it. It's only a factor when you really need them!
Who exactly am I bullying? Should I be giving gold stars to bad advice, improper terminology use and poor workmanship so sensitive Noras don't take umbrage on the behalf of a falsly held idea? Would yee rather I don't point out the flawed logic and intrinsic problems in the disparity between marketing and reality?

I see the pylontech is only rated to charge in an environmental envelope of 0°C to 50°C. If you install one in an attic and the temperature lowers what protection does it have? Is it failsafe? Will it stop working or set fire if you charge it below zero?


The grant requires you to pay for a BER which is completely pointless because it's not a measure of the house's performance. It's an assessment of a clipboard warrior's observation skills.
You don't need a firefighter safety switch for a non-grant system.
The rates are an awful lot more competitive with the post grant prices.
Indie companies have lower administration costs and quicker turnarounds.
Does registration make somebody talented or informed?

garo

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I see the pylontech is only rated to charge in an environmental envelope of 0°C to 50°C. If you install one in an attic and the temperature lowers what protection does it have? Is it failsafe? Will it stop working or set fire if you charge it below zero?

To answer this: Yes it stops working and doesn't set fire. There is a CAN bus that reports battery temperature to the inverter constantly and inverter regulates the charge on that basis. The charging is derated to 10A (from 25A) below 15C and to 0A at 0C. It's about as failsafe as you can reasonably expect it to be. If the CAN bus has a fault the inverter won't charge the battery at all.



Maybe a bit of humility would serve you well. God knows you were wrong about the PWM/MPPT thing. And were also suprised by the 80% in-and-out efficiency you got for the DC battery. It's not that you are not knowledgeable or don't have much to contribute to this forum. You do. But your attitude rubs most people the wrong way. You can make the same points without being obnoxious.

Interesting so the Pylontech will just perform worse then in a non-temperature stabilised environment. Is it failsafe too? ie. does it work without (defective) temperature sensing or have value validation to prevent erroneous readings?

Sure I was wrong about PWM - MPPT in low light conditions that I tested them under. The Summer results will be much closer.
The 80% round trip haha, I got that from a €2.3k inverter bolted to ~€4k of solid-state hardware...is that a normal setup?
All batteries are DC!!!!!

The rest of my setups are in the order of ~65% round trip.
Anyone else measured theirs? Specifically the ones posting payback predicitions?


I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong.


What about positive humility?

This is excellent or is this excellent?

Caspero

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

The grant requires you to pay for a BER which is completely pointless because it's not a measure of the house's performance. It's an assessment of a clipboard warrior's observation skills.
You don't need a firefighter safety switch for a non-grant system.
The rates are an awful lot more competitive with the post grant prices.
Indie companies have lower administration costs and quicker turnarounds.
Does registration make somebody talented or informed?

So disappointed that your answer wasn't in the form of another nice little song.

I take it your question was rhetorical but....there is a course on Solar PV systems that installers need to take in order to become registered so I suppose the answer is - it depends on what's taught in the course vs what they knew before it. You don't have a high regard for installers' knowledge...if accurate then my answer is ... "sometimes"

What kind of battery disconnects are they being taught to fit?
Are they fitting B-type RCDs where required or type-B RCBOs?

My answer is an expert has 10 000 hours experience. A professional is someone you give money to for a service.

garo

False humility/modesty is not a virtue in my book! When you are right you are right. It's more the dismissive and sneering tone that can be problematic. You may not intend it but it certainly comes across as that.


The temperature sensor is sealed into the unit. I am not aware of any validation or fault tolerance built in. But you keep moving the standards ever higher. And temperature sensors aren't exactly fragile instruments that are prone to breaking.


I await the results of your experiments on LiFePO4 efficiency and cycle life.

It's not meant as sneering. It's an anti-BS reflex. The market is entrenched in it, it's a public service and if I didn't I'd go spare from the shear volume of it.

I'm not claiming 6k cycles Garo. I'll just wait and see if they can beat my 6 and 10 year old lead displaying 100% rated.
I use temp sensors in pairs where mission critical. Thermistors are pretty reliable but very inaccurate. I give myself a 5°C overhead.

The effective operational efficiency is 1>2% better than lead (not including maintenence charging I do once a month which is 20>30% worse for lead)

garo

Your man got 77% efficiency off lead-acid not including inverter losses:
https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1847.0


LiFePO4 losses are less than half that. So your 1>2% number is way off.

SouthWesterly

What ever happened to solar quotes and discussion on them?

MAULBROOK

Lads can we stop this pissing competition and get back on track ya know SOLAR QUOTES 2020.

Yes many of the points are valid but its starting to get out of hand.

You can tell me to fxxxoff but we had a good thing going, thats been very beneficial to a lot of people.

DrPhilG

Well said MAULBROOK.

Every other thread in this forum these days is derailed by the same rants.

Tell ya what carry on without me so. Ye wanna make uninformed decisions, acclaim sub-standard work and throw money in a hole because yee wanna believe the hype and claim green credentials be my guest.

SouthWesterly

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well said MAULBROOK.

Every other thread in this forum these days is derailed by the same rants.

Damn. thought there was going to be a post about a quote

unkel

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Tell ya what carry on without me so.

I hope not, Liam. There are several people in here with strong opinions whose bedside manners leave a lot to be desired - myself included

But hand on heart I can say I value your contributions on this forum and I have personally learnt a good few things from you. And I doubt I'm the only one.

Thanks Unkel.

I do appreciate that for all the loud mouths [myself included] there's 20 listeners who like to see both sides of the story.

I myself am astounded by the power of telling people what the want to hear and them that swallow wholesale everything they want to believe for non-scientific reasons.

Not the first time I've been accused of making my point with a blunt and gnarly axe. From my point of view people are outright lying about their products and system performance, selling mutton dressed as lamb for a premium and it's all gravy because they're ever so nice and mannerly about it. Well-err I've no problem telling them what I think about them to their face and that makes me a [rude word] despite all the data, facts and evidence I bring to the table to refute marketing and pipe dreams.

I'm out, I might come back...it won't be for a while. I'm taking time away from building cost effective hardware that actually works to specification to have an input on the forum. Let's see how the navel gazing goes without meter data to counteract glossy pdfs.

MAULBROOK

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well said MAULBROOK.

Every other thread in this forum these days is derailed by the same rants.

I noticed, its starting to kill the benefits of this helpful thread.

MAULBROOK

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Damn. thought there was going to be a post about a quote

Your setup looks impressive, you must be the first with 400 watt plus panels.
Good catch. If i was doing it all over again I would have got the same panels.

SouthWesterly

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Your setup looks impressive, you must be the first with 400 watt plus panels.
Good catch. If i was doing it all over again I would have got the same panels.

You've quoted the wrong person.

MAULBROOK

SouthWesterly wrote: »

You've quoted the wrong person.

opps

tails_naf

garo wrote: »

To answer this: Yes it stops working and doesn't set fire. There is a CAN bus that reports battery temperature to the inverter constantly and inverter regulates the charge on that basis. The charging is derated to 10A (from 25A) below 15C and to 0A at 0C. It's about as failsafe as you can reasonably expect it to be. If the CAN bus has a fault the inverter won't charge the battery at all.

Damn. My inverter and battery are in the attic also. Is there a way of getting the reported temperature from either the app or the website? The closest thing I found was BMS limited charge and discharge currents, which are reporting 50A still. This is for a solis inverter and pylontech battery.

ParkRunner

Hi guys,
Am new to the PV world and looking at quotes at the moment for my bungalow. I can fit up to 16 panels and got a quote for 12. Would really appreciate your thoughts on it. I have 3 small kids and no EV so standard enough usage I imagine

4.5kWp PV & Sonnen eco 9 5kWh hybrid battery - €9665 after grant + vat.

4.5kWp PV & hot water diverter - €5,334 after grant + vat

rx8

ParkRunner wrote: »

Hi guys,
Am new to the PV world and looking at quotes at the moment for my bungalow. I can fit up to 16 panels and got a quote for 12. Would really appreciate your thoughts on it. I have 3 small kids and no EV so standard enough usage I imagine

4.5kWp PV & Sonnen eco 9 5kWh hybrid battery - €9665 after grant + vat.

4.5kWp PV & hot water diverter - €5,334 after grant + vat

PM Sent.
Fit as many panels as you can would be my advice. Then you will maximise your production.
Prices seem to be way too high there.

championc

ParkRunner wrote: »

Hi guys,
Am new to the PV world and looking at quotes at the moment for my bungalow. I can fit up to 16 panels and got a quote for 12. Would really appreciate your thoughts on it. I have 3 small kids and no EV so standard enough usage I imagine

4.5kWp PV & Sonnen eco 9 5kWh hybrid battery - €9665 after grant + vat.

4.5kWp PV & hot water diverter - €5,334 after grant + vat

Look back a page or two at @slave1 quote !!

ParkRunner

championc wrote: »

Look back a page or two at @slave1 quote !!

Quite a difference there alright, thanks.

trellheim

if you buy in your own panels and are handy with tools can you get the grant

Alkers

trellheim wrote: »

if you buy in your own panels and are handy with tools can you get the grant

No

championc

trellheim wrote: »

if you buy in your own panels and are handy with tools can you get the grant

No, but you won't need the grant since you will complete the whole job well and truely cheaper than the cost of the lowest quotes on here, and consequentally, giving a much quicker payback, and also educating yourself on the full workings of the system.

There is also @SirLiam's point which is that you can possibly choose to install better components for the likes of Isolators, rather than an installer using the cheapest components available.

The only thing you need to do is to file an NC6 with ESB Networks, and a sparks needs to be nominated on the form (but doesn't have to participate in the installation)

trellheim

No, but you won't need the grant since you will complete the whole job well and truely cheaper than the cost of the lowest quotes on here, and consequentally, giving a much quicker payback, and also educating yourself on the full workings of the system.

this is kind of what I was wondering . So what's a good bill of materials quote for a buy-in using current gen stuff ?