"None of our children on the list are getting these houses"

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

taking it at source is absolutely possible, if there is a legal limit on how much wellfare cannot be reduced below then the council simply don't go near or below the limit but they will get their money in time.

What in 30 years time that might cover what is owned now but they will stay permanent in arrears ,still the council's will have to take each case to court costing them even more while Joe lazy sits on his whole getting everything for free

Suckit

Gatling wrote: »

What in 30 years time that might cover what is owned now but they will stay permanent in arrears ,still the council's will have to take each case to court costing them even more while Joe lazy sits on his whole getting everything for free

In 20-30 years time there will have been an extra 1,000,000 people at least, added to the population and at least 500,000 of those won't have been born in this country. That's part of the FG masterplan.
Where are they going to get their homes from?

Idbatterim

Suckit wrote: »

In 20-30 years time there will have been an extra 1,000,000 people at least, added to the population and at least 500,000 of those won't have been born in this country. That's part of the FG masterplan.
Where are they going to get their homes from?

If denis o'brien starts selling modular homes, they will have the problem solved in 2-3 years tops! He has magic beans to sell them too! If they bought the rural broadband scam, they'll buy the magic beans too

Diceicle

This came up in my Twitter feed. Its from 2018 but if its indicative of any of the current housing criteria we're using to give people far below market rate homes then we are in trouble.

Maria moves here from Poland 14 Years ago - sticks her name on the list basically straight away. Waits 13 years for a tax-payer subsidised house in Dundrum. I mean, wtf! Help me understand how allowing in migrants (EU or otherwise) who cannot house themselves is in any way fiscally prudent policy?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-a-dream-come-true-mother-of-three-receives-key-to-new-home-after-13-year-wait-on-housing-list-37604917.html

Jinglejangle69

Diceicle wrote: »

This came up in my Twitter feed. Its from 2018 but if its indicative of any of the current housing criteria we're using to give people far below market rate homes then we are in trouble.

Maria moves here from Poland 14 Years ago - sticks her name on the list basically straight away. Waits 13 years for a tax-payer subsidised house in Dundrum. I mean, wtf! Help me understand how allowing in migrants (EU or otherwise) who cannot house themselves is in any way fiscally prudent policy?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-a-dream-come-true-mother-of-three-receives-key-to-new-home-after-13-year-wait-on-housing-list-37604917.html

Houses for anyone that wants one is SF and the oppositions mantra.

And people have lapped it up.

**** me why wouldn't they!!

Why am I paying my mortgage!!??

Jinglejangle69

Suckit wrote: »

In 20-30 years time there will have been an extra 1,000,000 people at least, added to the population and at least 500,000 of those won't have been born in this country. That's part of the FG masterplan.
Where are they going to get their homes from?

Have you a link to this masterplan?

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Houses for anyone that wants one is SF and the oppositions mantra.

And people have lapped it up.

**** me why wouldn't they!!

Why am I paying my mortgage!!??

true jingle! but even thats better than paying obsene rent!

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

true jingle! but even thats better than paying obsene rent!

Obscene rent because chancers like this one in the article is eating up accomadation at the expense of honest hard working families.

This is all fuelled by the left wing media and left wing parties.

No other country would this woman get a brand new house after been on the waiting list for 13 years.

Wonder can an Irish woman go to Poland and put her name on a list for 13 years with 3 kids a a get a shiny new house?

I'm not even gonna ask where the father is.

Give me a break, absolute mugs we are.

Diceicle

Diceicle wrote: »

This came up in my Twitter feed. Its from 2018 but if its indicative of any of the current housing criteria we're using to give people far below market rate homes then we are in trouble.

Maria moves here from Poland 14 Years ago - sticks her name on the list basically straight away. Waits 13 years for a tax-payer subsidised house in Dundrum. I mean, wtf! Help me understand how allowing in migrants (EU or otherwise) who cannot house themselves is in any way fiscally prudent policy?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-a-dream-come-true-mother-of-three-receives-key-to-new-home-after-13-year-wait-on-housing-list-37604917.html

Because she lives here in Ireland, I presume she will pay tax the same as any worker.
Her children will go to third level & get an education & then go on to be tax payers in this country.
Did she ever say that her & her family wanted to live off the state?

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why am I paying my mortgage!!??

Honestly?
I don't know.
My friend, who is Irish BTW, hasn't paid a mortgage in over 8 years.
It was sold to some fund or other, she still hadn't paid.
The council had told her that when the eviction time comes, they will buy the house & rent it to her, & I have no doubt sell it to her at a massively reduced rate!

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Obscene rent because chancers like this one in the article is eating up accomadation at the expense of honest hard working families.

This is all fuelled by the left wing media and left wing parties.

No other country would this woman get a brand new house after been on the waiting list for 13 years.

Wonder can an Irish woman go to Poland and put her name on a list for 13 years with 3 kids a a get a shiny new house?

I'm not even gonna ask where the father is.

Give me a break, absolute mugs we are.

I agree, RTe just focus on the usual wasters! the homeless issue, sad as it is, cant be solved totally . for many of them, they have mental issues and cant be housed. I have had enough, of hard working people struggling. RTE have their head up their hole, as do the media! Its several hundred thousand being ripped off on property, thats where the anger is, its also for the homeless, but to a far lesser degree!

BanditLuke

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree, RTe just focus on the usual wasters! the homeless issue, sad as it is, cant be solved totally . for many of them, they have mental issues and cant be housed. I have had enough, of hard working people struggling. RTE have their head up their hole, as do the media! Its several hundred thousand being ripped off on property, thats where the anger is, its also for the homeless, but to a far lesser degree!

Time to set up your own political party. Its INSANITY!!!

end of the road

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why am I paying my mortgage!!??

because you took out a bank loan and you agreed to the terms of that loan which include paying it back. + you obviously wish to own the house eventually.
i would have thought that would be obvious, but it seems not for some strange reason.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Obscene rent because chancers like this one in the article is eating up accomadation at the expense of honest hard working families.

This is all fuelled by the left wing media and left wing parties.

No other country would this woman get a brand new house after been on the waiting list for 13 years.

Wonder can an Irish woman go to Poland and put her name on a list for 13 years with 3 kids a a get a shiny new house?

I'm not even gonna ask where the father is.

Give me a break, absolute mugs we are.

the high rents are due to limited supply of houses to meet the demand for the large competition which are looking for houses.
a few chancers being housed in luxury apartments at a very high rent because that is all that is available due to no house building program, makes no difference to the rates of rent, as if it isn't the chancer, it will be the working person who will be paying that rent themselves rather then the tax payer. either way the owner will get their money and the rent will be high.
the left, right and middle wing media have nothing to do with the government's policy not to build houses and to spend large money on housing people in hotels and luxury apartments instead.

neonsofa

bubblypop wrote: »

Honestly?
I don't know.
My friend, who is Irish BTW, hasn't paid a mortgage in over 8 years.
It was sold to some fund or other, she still hadn't paid.
The council had told her that when the eviction time comes, they will buy the house & rent it to her, & I have no doubt sell it to her at a massively reduced rate!

Yep HomeForLife buy the property and lease it to them. After five years they can buy it again.

I looked it up when i heard about it because i genuinely thought the person telling me about it was mistaken.
It sounded so ludicrous that someone could fall into arrears on a mortgage, have this company buy the property and rent it back to them at a reduced rate- with this HomeForLife crowd responsible for maintenance and renovations etc- and then buy it back from them at a lower cost after 5 years. Thought i was missing something but apparently not!

Idbatterim

BanditLuke wrote: »

Time to set up your own political party. Its INSANITY!!!

its an open goal for anyone with the initiative at the moment. I have my rainy day fund, I'm just waiting for the **** to hit the fan here again, no leadership, no vision...

BanditLuke

Idbatterim wrote: »

its an open goal for anyone with the initiative at the moment. I have my rainy day fund, I'm just waiting for the **** to hit the fan here again, no leadership, no vision...

Ah well once your alright that's the main thing.

Suckit

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Houses for anyone that wants one is SF and the oppositions mantra.

And people have lapped it up.

**** me why wouldn't they!!

Why am I paying my mortgage!!??

I don't believe you are paying a mortgage. I think you are still in school, or possibly just finished.

It's FG's mantra, pretty much any and every politicians mantra. Will wait and see which ones can actually do it properly and not for random people ranging from Albania to Zimbabwe.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Have you a link to this masterplan?

https://twitter.com/HGKrell/status/1223172589406818305

Eric Cartman

neonsofa wrote: »

Yep HomeForLife buy the property and lease it to them. After five years they can buy it again.

I looked it up when i heard about it because i genuinely thought the person telling me about it was mistaken.
It sounded so ludicrous that someone could fall into arrears on a mortgage, have this company buy the property and rent it back to them at a reduced rate- with this HomeForLife crowd responsible for maintenance and renovations etc- and then buy it back from them at a lower cost after 5 years. Thought i was missing something but apparently not!

What..... this cant be real, thats madness

Diceicle

bubblypop wrote: »

Because she lives here in Ireland, I presume she will pay tax the same as any worker.
Her children will go to third level & get an education & then go on to be tax payers in this country.
Did she ever say that her & her family wanted to live off the state?

Ok, thats fine.

The point re: her children is a little soft is it not? Hopefully the ones that dont have kids have kids, and hopefully they are upstanding citizens, and hopefully they go to college, and hopefully they don't get poorly paying jobs, and hopefully they dont emigrate. That's not good economic policy thats 'just cross your fingers and hope for the best'.
On the point that she's a worker and paying tax. Thats fine. I'm focused more on the logic of the principle of allowing in workers who cannot financially stand on their own 2 feet. I'm happy to have my thinking changed if someone can spell out how or why this makes economic sense.
Seeing as how she can be on the housing list in the Dundrum area (no mention of a husband from the article so I presume he's not on the scene) she earns somewhere below €35k. The tax she's paying per year is hardly likely to cover housing her - particularly if she was getting HAP or similar while in Rathfarnham.

GreeBo

Idbatterim wrote: »

you didnt ever question the insanity of this ? Why shouldnt I be able to live where I want (within reason) How much time do you have? I can send you endless links of why vested interests, just want to keep development and supply to a minimum and live in their own bubbles. You think that is acceptable or tolerable any more? it isnt...

Why aren't you questioning the inanity of everyone being able to live where they want?

That doesnt work anywhere, it simply cant work in an expanding population.
You can build as many highrises as you want, 50 storey and within one generation you have more people than accomodation available. Now what? Start building 100 storey buildings?

This isnt even economics guys, its physics and maths.
Each person needs X space to live.
We have 10 times X in area Y.
Hence you can have 10 people living in area Y.
Thats it, there is no magic or no bogey man stopping more people living in Y.

Diceicle

For clarity (as I've just clarified it for myself), you don't need to be an Irish citizen to get social housing....
Details here

All EEA nationals may be considered for assessment for social housing support from housing authorities
if;
1) they are in employment/self-employed in the State; or
2) where they are not currently working/employed it is because -
 they are temporarily unable to work because of illness/accident;
 they are recorded as involuntarily unemployed after having been employed for longer than a year, and they are registered as a job-seeker with Department of Social Protection and FÁS.

You only need to have worked for a year? Seems an extremely low barrier to entry for a state subsidised home....

GreeBo

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Because you can't afford it, that's simple
That's the sense of entitlement that please talk about

Or even simpler, other people can afford to pay more than you can and they are pricing you out of the limited supply.
Its the same as any free market auction, but for some reason Idbatterim and others want some mommy type figure to come along and force all the other children to play with them.

Its really bizarre stuff to me.

Diceicle

GreeBo wrote: »

Why aren't you questioning the inanity of everyone being able to live where they want?

That doesnt work anywhere, it simply cant work in an expanding population.
You can build as many highrises as you want, 50 storey and within one generation you have more people than accomodation available. Now what? Start building 100 storey buildings?

This isnt even economics guys, its physics and maths.
Each person needs X space to live.
We have 10 times X in area Y.
Hence you can have 10 people living in area Y.
Thats it, there is no magic or no bogey man stopping more people living in Y.

I don't disagree with the thrust of your post but we should acknowledge the amount of land-hording and under-utilised land very close to the City Centre.
Swathes of areas near Clondalkin. Plenty of land in Dublin 8 is under-developed.

GreeBo wrote: »

Or even simpler, other people can afford to pay more than you can and they are pricing you out of the limited supply.
Its the same as any free market auction.....

I disllike this argument. Its not the same as any other free-market. I was listening to a radio program where this argument was put forth - its just too simplistic. Having a home impacts your life and which in turn can impact all other aspects of your life including your health. Its also the biggest purchase and or biggest monthly outlay most people have. Having rents too high is not good for workers or the economy. It benefits a very limited number of people.
To say it is just the free market just doesn't cut it.

GreeBo

Diceicle wrote: »

I don't disagree with the thrust of your post but we should acknowledge the amount of land-hording and under-utilised land very close to the City Centre.
Swathes of areas near Clondalkin. Plenty of land in Dublin 8 is under-developed.

But you could say the same about any commodity.
I dont think people have a good understanding of how expensive it is to buy a property to the current regulations. Its not 1990 where as long as it has around 4 walls and most of a roof its grand.
Its hundreds of thousands to build a property and a multi year committment.
Would you, as a builder, sink your future on the hope that the market supports your costs when you come to sell in 2-3 years time?

I disllike this argument. Its not the same as any other free-market. I was listening to a radio program where this argument was put forth - its just too simplistic. Having a home impacts your life and which in turn can impact all other aspects of your life including your health. Its also the biggest purchase and or biggest monthly outlay most people have. Having rents too high is not good for workers or the economy. It benefits a very limited number of people.
To say it is just the free market just doesn't cut it.

Sure it does, but its still a free-market. You mightn't like the fact that it is, but it is.
Not having lots of money impacts your life and your health. Should we all just be giving 20K a year by the government to make us happy? If you read some other threads on here that is what is being proposed.

Building is a business. Any business benefits a limited number of people, namely the people who own it. Why would a business do something to benefit others to their own detriment? How often does your local coffee shop give you free stuff because you look sad? Why would a house be any different?

Yurt2

A home is not a latte. Nobody has to have a latte. I, and nobody else, is worried about a latte shortage or people not being able to afford one. It's a foolish and rather silly non-sequitur

Free marketeering in a space with inelastic land supply that is needed to generate an essential utility for evreyone with a pulse had led to a situation where we have Canadian pension funds, German property fund spivs etc selling our lifestyle back to us.

Housing is not a commodity and should be viewed as such. You've been trained to think that way about it, but it's actually a very recent phenomenon. Many people display an extremely ridgid dogma when it comes to housing and you're one of them.

The way financing is structured for affordable build model as operated by Cluid for example is actually an extremely attractive and low-risk, and ultimately profitable option for construction companies. Many more would bite the hand off affordable build developers and housing associations if it was ramped up and prioritised by the state.

There are vested interests that of course do not wish to see this happening. There are others who do not wish to see it happen as they are dogmatic and/or they don't like to think they spunked money on a house when others stand to benefit from an affordable purchase scheme and they missed out.

Diceicle

Diceicle wrote: »

For clarity (as I've just clarified it for myself), you don't need to be an Irish citizen to get social housing....
Details here



You only need to have worked for a year? Seems an extremely low barrier to entry for a state subsidised home....

How long do Irish people work before they are eligible for social housing?

enricoh

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What..... this cant be real, thats madness

Nothing surprises me anymore with Ireland's welfare state. It's a bottomless pit. What has Pascal in the rainy day fund ? A billion -peanuts, but there's no votes in that.
We should just get the imf back here to run the show permanently!

Eric Cartman

enricoh wrote: »

Nothing surprises me anymore with Ireland's welfare state. It's a bottomless pit. What has Pascal in the rainy day fund ? A billion -peanuts, but there's no votes in that.
We should just get the imf back here to run the show permanently!

It was great to have a body that wasn't afraid to cut spending for a while, no amount of rabble rousing or sob stories could stop them, I want that back in power. With the exception of the USC, Austerity was the best thing to happen to Ireland in decades.

Diceicle

bubblypop wrote: »

How long do Irish people work before they are eligible for social housing?

Not long enough in my opinion.
However, supporting a policy where people can move from a low pay, low opportunity economy (if I can encapsulate it like that) like, for example, Romania - to a higher opportunity economy, with all the benefits for their family that goes along with it - is not a good policy.
It creates a 'pull' incentive for low skill workers.

BanditLuke

enricoh wrote: »

Nothing surprises me anymore with Ireland's welfare state. It's a bottomless pit. What has Pascal in the rainy day fund ? A billion -peanuts, but there's no votes in that.
We should just get the imf back here to run the show permanently!

Not to mention the welfare for the banking sector. 6 billion a year in interest alone. Shocking.