“Your father works for my father”

v638sg7k1a92bx

Seriously, I know many rugby fans are in denial but can we call a spade a a spade and just accept that rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week, the article in the IT, the fake south Dublin accents, the aping of the Tory boy mentality in England, the entire post colonial mentality. This is why Irish rugby team will never win a World Cup, because the players derive mostly from private fee paying schools and they just don’t have the grit or toughness. Fan boys on here will argue that this topic has been covered before and try and brush it off but these type of incidents keep popping up that they cannot just be pushed aside, if you are a real rugby fan you have to address this issue.

Article is here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/your-father-works-for-my-father-schools-rugby-turning-toxic-in-the-stands-1.4172843

prawnsambo

Rugby is a sport. Lots of people enjoy it as players and spectators. That is all.

Dog Botherer

sounds like you need a hobby tbh

awec

OP - you originally linked some random article about Dominic Cummings in your post, I assume that was a mistake and I've fixed the link to the Irish Times article I think you meant to link.

Since this is a piece in a mainstream media outlet, I will let this thread stay open for now, but at the first sign of crap it'll be closed. If you're incapable of having a serious discussion then don't post in this thread. There'll be a low tolerance for nonsense.

eclipsechaser

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Seriously, I know many rugby fans are in denial but can we call a spade a a spade and just accept that rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week, the article in the IT, the fake south Dublin accents, the aping of the Tory boy mentality in England, the entire post colonial mentality. This is why Irish rugby team will never win a World Cup, because the players derive mostly from private fee paying schools and they just don’t have the grit or toughness. Fan boys on here will argue that this topic has been covered before and try and brush it off but these type of incidents keep popping up that they cannot just be pushed aside, if you are a real rugby fan you have to address this issue.

Article is here https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/johnson-s-purge-leaves-him-free-to-spend-his-way-to-popularity-1.4173092?mode=amp

You're right. Post colonial attitudes are what's stopping Ireland winning the World Cup. Must be why South Africa did so badly this year...

v638sg7k1a92bx

awec wrote: »

OP - you originally linked some random article about Dominic Cummings in your post, I assume that was a mistake and I've fixed the link to the Irish Times article I think you meant to link.

Since this is a piece in a mainstream media outlet, I will let this thread stay open for now, but at the first sign of crap it'll be closed. If you're incapable of having a serious discussion then don't post in this thread. There'll be a low tolerance for nonsense.

Yes I meant to link the recent article. I understand what your saying about the thread going off the rails but bearing in mind recent political events around social status in Irish society and this recurring theme around rugby and it’s support I think this is a genuine subject which deserves to be thrashed out.

v638sg7k1a92bx

eclipsechaser wrote: »

You're right. Post colonial attitudes are what's stopping Ireland winning the World Cup. Must be why South Africa did so badly this year...

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Dog Botherer wrote: »

sounds like you need a hobby tbh

Judging by the article it won’t be rugby.

Dog Botherer

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

i mean this is untrue to the point where it’s so obviously untrue that it’s a waste of time refuting it.

eclipsechaser

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

South African rugby is grassroots - that's pretty ignorant of reality. Is their grassroot nature the reason they introduced a racial quota?

I've been on a train full of Mayo GAA supporters minding my own business only to be spat on. Do you reckon I should message the Mayo team telling them that's why they haven't won the Sam Maguire lately?

Rockbeast2

"Your father works for my father" is in fact a fraternal call between affluent Southside rugby players and an affirmation that both players' fathers have jobs and pay taxes.

It can often be perceived, possibly correctly, as an attack on the "working" class "Das" of similarly aged soccer players who may not have jobs or pay taxes. This may cause discontent and resentment.

* LOL Bit of harmless banter/sledging. Funny, too.

saabsaab

'old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.'



Isn't that Soccer?


Anyway Dev was a secret rugby player.

irishbucsfan

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

Of course it is played at a grass roots level in Ireland. All sports are. That's what junior rugby is. You just don't know what you're talking about.

There is definitely a strong following in South Dublin, but rugby is strongly supported and played at all kinds of levels across the island

aloooof

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

It really, very isn’t. The reason Siya Kolisi, for example, was so lauded during the RWC is because he is the exception that proves the rule.

stephen_n

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

That’s completely and utterly wrong, but do continue displaying a complete lack of knowledge about rugby in Ireland.

Your Face

It's like the OP was angry at something else and the first thing he saw was an article about rugby.

Dave_The_Sheep

Will Thundering Principal wrote:

Particularly In light of the election results last week

I'm curious as to what you think the election results have in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby. Could you elaborate?

thebaz

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Yes I meant to link the recent article. I understand what your saying about the thread going off the rails but bearing in mind recent political events around social status in Irish society and this recurring theme around rugby and it’s support I think this is a genuine subject which deserves to be thrashed out.

Been to a few matches down the years, and usually enjoy the banter/chanting/passion even fireworks for a tenner - from my limited viewing seams to be reallly one school with the offensive chanting ****e (like in the thread title) - if they clean it up, problem should be solved - Rugby should be for everyone, not just the privelleged, and that type of snob chanting should be rooted out by school - but keep the flares and the passion !

ToddDameron

Sounds like the author of that article made it up. Intimidating supporters roaring "we pay fees." Yeah, sure.

awec

Not sure if people realise or not but the author of the article is not some rugby-hating inverse snob, in fact he used to work for the IRFU and without question knows his stuff.

This "your father works for my father" and "we pay fees" stuff is actually cringeworthy.

parc

What's the harm in this?

A bunch of rapscallions and a bit of intra-schools verbal jousting.

Great comradery amongst brothers. Letting off a bit of steam after a long hard day in the office. Harking back to the glory days, where life was as simple as bleeding your school's colours.

No doubt the rivals in question shared a drink or two in the bar afterwards. No doubt some of their fathers do work for their fathers given the excellent network amongst Dublin's schools.

Despite the rivalries on the pitch, which often manifests in the stands, Dublin schools have commensurate ethe. You can't argue with that.

lalababa

Ireland can beat anyone on their day. But their days are and can be few and far between, as we don't have the depth or the pedigree. When things get really competitive,and within a short time frame and also against teams we perceive as inferior, we are found lacking. We can do well, and have done in the six nations, and 2/3 tests in a row. Anything more than that we are stretched.
Also that particular great team had peaked, played itself out, couldn't go to the well again, tactics found out, and Sexton & Murry not at their best.
That's not to say those players can not come again after a bit of rest/run of losses.

eclipsechaser

awec wrote: »

Not sure if people realise or not but the author of the article is not some rugby-hating inverse snob, in fact he used to work for the IRFU and without question knows his stuff.

This "your father works for my father" and "we pay fees" stuff is actually cringeworthy.

I absolutely agree that there is a serious issue with the behaviour of some past (and current) pupils attending those matches. However OP linking it to Ireland's world cup performance or the recent election is straw-grasping of the highest order and deserves ridicule.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

lalababa wrote: »

Ireland can beat anyone on their day. But their days are and can be few and far between, as we don't have the depth or the pedigree. When things get really competitive,and within a short time frame and also against teams we perceive as inferior, we are found lacking. We can do well, and have done in the six nations, and 2/3 tests in a row. Anything more than that we are stretched.
Also that particular great team had peaked, played itself out, couldn't go to the well again, tactics found out, and Sexton & Murry not at their best.
That's not to say those players can not come again after a bit of rest/run of losses.

Few and far between? Jesus you’re some spoofer

v638sg7k1a92bx

saabsaab wrote: »

'old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.'



Isn't that Soccer?


Anyway Dev was a secret rugby player.

No sorry it’s rugby

v638sg7k1a92bx

Dog Botherer wrote: »

i mean this is untrue to the point where it’s so obviously untrue that it’s a waste of time refuting it.

Ok so what is the national sport in SA, please enlighten me. What sport is played more widely in SA than rugby I would actually love to know?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'm curious as to what you think the election results have in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby. Could you elaborate?

If you need me to explain it it you it shows how out of touch you really are while burying your head in the sand looking at rugby stats.

prawnsambo

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Ok so what is the national sport in SA, please enlighten me. What sport is played more widely in SA than rugby I would actually love to know?

The most popular sport is soccer. Then cricket and then rugby.

v638sg7k1a92bx

prawnsambo wrote: »

The most popular sport is soccer. Then cricket and then rugby.

Nonsense. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-national-sport-of-South-Africa

prawnsambo

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

If you need me to explain it it you it shows how out of touch you really are while burying your head in the sand looking at rugby stats.

In other words you just made it up.

prawnsambo

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Nonsense. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-national-sport-of-South-Africa

Did you even read what you linked? Rugby is the most popular sport amongst white South Africans. The minority.

Dave_The_Sheep

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

If you need me to explain it it you it shows how out of touch you really are while burying your head in the sand looking at rugby stats.

I'd like you to explain your opinion on what the election results last week mean in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future.

It's your thread, you're the one that claimed there's a link, so I'd like to hear what the link is, and your thought process around it.

The Lost Sheep

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Seriously, I know many rugby fans are in denial but can we call a spade a a spade and just accept that rugby, in Dublin in particular, is considered by many and evidenced by the the article in the Irish times as an old school, garrison, “West Brit” sport.

Particularly In light of the election results last week, the article in the IT, the fake south Dublin accents, the aping of the Tory boy mentality in England, the entire post colonial mentality. This is why Irish rugby team will never win a World Cup, because the players derive mostly from private fee paying schools and they just don’t have the grit or toughness. Fan boys on here will argue that this topic has been covered before and try and brush it off but these type of incidents keep popping up that they cannot just be pushed aside, if you are a real rugby fan you have to address this issue.

Article is here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/your-father-works-for-my-father-schools-rugby-turning-toxic-in-the-stands-1.4172843

I've spent way too Mich time since I joined this site 9 years ago.... discussing this kind of thing.
Rugby is considered by some to be that and the whole coverage of the schools cups dorsnt help the sport in some areas
That you can be a teenager in many parts of Dublin and if interested in playing rugby struggle to find a team to play on as many clubs dont field teams for teenagers doesnt help the sport at all expand
I dont care if we dont ever win a world cup. If we finally win a knockout cup game I will be happy for a start.
I dont think players primarily coming from fee paying schools in some areas is reason Ireland hasn't done as well as we could have in world cups but irfu and provinces are doing a lot to expand playing numbers across the country and are putting in initiatives to get more playing the sport and progress to pro level. Munster launched their u16/18 club competitions today as they get close to knockout stages. This has expanded year on year and getting stronger in quality every year as well. Numbers of pros emerging after having played in it increasing all the time. Same can be said for all provinces.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

that is completely untrue. Rugby played at grassroots all over Ireland from connemara gaeltacht to the cities. New clubs and more underage teams fielding every single season. More schoosl starting to play the sport.

awec wrote: »

Not sure if people realise or not but the author of the article is not some rugby-hating inverse snob, in fact he used to work for the IRFU and without question knows his stuff.

This "your father works for my father" and "we pay fees" stuff is actually cringeworthy.

yeah used to work in refs department
Loads of stuff at schools rugby games are cringeworthy its same at all these games whatever the sport except the gaa including harry cup just doesnt get near same level of coverage in media

v638sg7k1a92bx

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'd like you to explain your opinion on what the election results last week mean in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future.

It's your thread, you're the one that claimed there's a link, so I'd like to hear what the link is, and your thought process around it.

For starters, it’s not my thread I just started it.

Second, why are you so defensive on the issue? There is an irrefutable correlation (or causation) between rugby and perceived privilege in Ireland particularly in Dublin. That is a a fact. How many schools in Darndale, Coolock or outside or D2, D4 in Dublin play rugby as their primary sport? I find it incredulous that people still try to deny it.

Third, it’s the only sport I know that is not interested in reaching out to new players. Rugby doesn’t actually want players from other communities! They want to keep it in that bubble. They are the only organisation that I’m aware of that doesn’t want to branch out. Even the scouts go into working class communities but rugby, no thanks.
That’s the reason why they will never win a World Cup. They rely on privileged kids who never had to dig deep, so when they come up against lads from Oz or NZ they just get smashed and sent packing.

aloooof

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'd like you to explain your opinion on what the election results last week mean in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future.

It's your thread, you're the one that claimed there's a link, so I'd like to hear what the link is, and your thought process around it.

+1 to this.

For someone who started the thread and suggested it’s an issue that needs addressing, I’m surprised Tickers is so reticent to actually discuss it and explain his/her logic.

paddylonglegs

Over €200 for a six nations match ticket is pretty elitist though

https://www.viagogo.ie/Sports-Tickets/Rugby-Union/Guinness-Six-Nations-Tickets/E-3615083Over

v638sg7k1a92bx

aloooof wrote: »

+1 to this.

For someone who started the thread and suggested it’s an issue that needs addressing, I’m surprised Tickers is so reticent to actually discuss it and explain his/her logic.

Are you really that out of touch? We’ve just had the biggest electoral shift in the history of the Irish state. A genuine swing from civil war politics to left/right politics on the tide of an economic success story because there is a large swathe of the population that feels there is a socio economic disparity between the haves and have nots. The article in the Irish times epitomises the attitude of the haves “your father works for my father”. Are you so lumpen that you cannot make that correlation?

thomond2006

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Over €200 for a six nations match ticket is pretty elitist though

https://www.viagogo.ie/Sports-Tickets/Rugby-Union/Guinness-Six-Nations-Tickets/E-3615083Over

Yes, a ticket price on a tout site is an excellent point of reference.

Dave_The_Sheep

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'd like you to explain your opinion on what the election results last week mean in relation to the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future.

It's your thread, you're the one that claimed there's a link, so I'd like to hear what the link is, and your thought process around it.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

For starters, it’s not my thread I just started it.

That makes it your thread.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Second, why are you so defensive on the issue?

I have no idea why asking you to explain your assertions is being 'so defensive' but okidoke.

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

There is an irrefutable correlation (or causation) between rugby and perceived privilege in Ireland particularly in Dublin. That is a a fact. How many schools in Darndale, Coolock or outside or D2, D4 in Dublin play rugby as their primary sport? I find it incredulous that people still try to deny it.

Third, it’s the only sport I know that is not interested in reaching out to new players. Rugby doesn’t actually want players from other communities! They want to keep it in that bubble. They are the only organisation that I’m aware of that doesn’t want to branch out. Even the scouts go into working class communities but rugby, no thanks.
That’s the reason why they will never win a World Cup. They rely on privileged kids who never had to dig deep, so when they come up against lads from Oz or NZ they just get smashed and sent packing.

None of this has anything to do with the election results. It's outdated, stereotypical and plain incorrect in parts, and is neither irrefutable nor a fact, but I won't be replying to it as it's nothing to do with the election results, which is what I asked you to explain.

What do the election results have to do with the popularity or potential lack of success of Irish rugby in the future?

paddylonglegs

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yes, a ticket price on a tout site is an excellent point of reference.

Tickets not available from aviva stadium site and this is the last game of the 6N there. Having searched before the Wales game on the aviva stadium site, even the nosebleeds were higher priced. This site isn’t actually more expensive hence why I posted it

The Lost Sheep

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

For starters, it’s not my thread I just started it.

Second, why are you so defensive on the issue? There is an irrefutable correlation (or causation) between rugby and perceived privilege in Ireland particularly in Dublin. That is a a fact. How many schools in Darndale, Coolock or outside or D2, D4 in Dublin play rugby as their primary sport? I find it incredulous that people still try to deny it.

Third, it’s the only sport I know that is not interested in reaching out to new players. Rugby doesn’t actually want players from other communities! They want to keep it in that bubble. They are the only organisation that I’m aware of that doesn’t want to branch out. Even the scouts go into working class communities but rugby, no thanks.
That’s the reason why they will never win a World Cup. They rely on privileged kids who never had to dig deep, so when they come up against lads from Oz or NZ they just get smashed and sent packing.

you started the thread ergo it's your thread.....
The rugby is elitist argument is extremely outdated especially if you actually look at the sport as a whole nationwide. Look at majority of people playing/coaching/involved in the sport nationwide.
You just havent a clue if you think rugby isnt in reaching out to new people. The whole structure with development officers going into schools and getting kids into clubs is all about bringing sport to new areas and more people.

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Over €200 for a six nations match ticket is pretty elitist though

https://www.viagogo.ie/Sports-Tickets/Rugby-Union/Guinness-Six-Nations-Tickets/E-3615083Over

you reference a touting/reselling site when tickets were sold officially for less than half that price

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Tickets not available from aviva stadium site and this is the last game of the 6N there. Having searched before the Wales game on the aviva stadium site, even the nosebleeds were higher priced. This site isn’t actually more expensive hence why I posted it

because they were sold out from official channels well in advance of the game no tickets would have been priced higher or near that price on any site connected to the irfu

paddylonglegs

[quote="The Lost Sheep;112539042

you reference a touting/reselling site when tickets were sold officially for less than half that price

because they were sold out from official channels well in advance of the game no tickets would have been priced higher or near that price on any site connected to the irfu[/quote]

Agree, such a site is not the best reference. However , Have a look at the official sites next year when the time comes around again. There is no need to be in denial that ticket costs for a six nations match is incredibly over priced however

The Lost Sheep

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Agree, such a site is not the best reference. However , Have a look at the official sites next year when the time comes around again. There is no need to be in denial that ticket costs for a six nations match is incredibly over priced however

over priced. Not at all. Demand dictates price and there is plenty tickets considerably lower even if they are restricted view seats.
What would you see as reasonable price any way?

paddylonglegs

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

over priced. Not at all. Demand dictates price and there is plenty tickets considerably lower even if they are restricted view seats.


What would you see as reasonable price any way?

Absolutely agree, it’s business 101. Price a ticket at what people are willing to/capable of paying. You just won’t get a family coming up from Thomond park for the day.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What would you see as reasonable price any way?

A quick search of similar in demand sporting events will tell you that

C0N0R

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Tickets not available from aviva stadium site and this is the last game of the 6N there. Having searched before the Wales game on the aviva stadium site, even the nosebleeds were higher priced. This site isn’t actually more expensive hence why I posted it

Ticket master had tickets available yesterday priced at €80 for the Ireland Italy game so to quote viagogo as a basis for price is wrong, viagogo will charge what they feel the market is willing to pay, supply and demand.

A bunch of idiots chanting cringy nonsense at each other at school games and the only thing more embarrassing is people giving it and the obvious trolls on here more oxygen.

Non story folks. Same small group of idiots in my day 20 years ago up to the same. They almost all grow out of it quick enough.

molloyjh

Will Thundering Principal wrote: »

Difference is that Rugby in SA is played at grass roots levels whereas in Ireland it is not so you’ve actually just inadvertently reinforced my point.

This is so very totally and completely untrue. Rugby's popularity throughout the country is enormous. Kids are playing it in clubs all over the country every weekend in pretty huge numbers. We have professional players in every province who came through grass roots clubs.

Also, you're attempt to link the debate to the elections seems odd. McDonald is a Trinity graduate living in an expensive house. O'Brón is a BlackRock alum and Trinity graduate too. SF is a party led by privileged people as much, if not more so, than other parties.

I'm afraid the entire basis of whatever point you are trying to make is founded on a basic lack of understanding of the facts.

salmocab

Why are people giving this rubbish any oxygen?

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm afraid the entire basis of whatever point you are trying to make is founded on a basic lack of understanding of the facts.

Par for the course for a lot of these guys.

It stems from jealously from gaa and soccer zealots at the growing popularity of rugby here, the excellent organisation of the sport across the board, and the revenue generation opportunities.

Anyone involved in the sport at grassroots level knows the days of it being a "privileged" sport ended in the 80s

tea and coffee

parc wrote: »

What's the harm in this?

A bunch of rapscallions and a bit of intra-schools verbal jousting.

Great comradery amongst brothers. Letting off a bit of steam after a long hard day in the office. Harking back to the glory days, where life was as simple as bleeding your school's colours.

No doubt the rivals in question shared a drink or two in the bar afterwards. No doubt some of their fathers do work for their fathers given the excellent network amongst Dublin's schools.

Despite the rivalries on the pitch, which often manifests in the stands, Dublin schools have commensurate ethe. You can't argue with that.

Is that you, Paul Howard? Lol

It is indicative of a deeper held mentality off the pitch which I would be more worried about. Imagine little Ross coming into the office thinking he was better than you or me because he went to a "bleeding blue" school.
Sometimes I don't think you need to look further than the parents to see where these attitudes come from. And that's almost as worrying as the other extreme (*note : almost).

VayNiice

Growing up I heard this being said at hurling matches in kilkenny between public schools. It happens everywhere in all sports.

The whole thing is bull**** to feed the rugby hating morons out there.