more nimbyism in Chapelizod ***Read Mod Note in OP***

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

You are claiming that people who live in council houses are more likely to engage in anti social behavior then people who live in private houses. Do you know how that sounds.
It is discrimination & snobbiness & if you deny this you are lying to yourself.

It is proven fact that’s what it is. Just look at council estates and that’s all tbe proof you need.

I don’t see any reason a person can’t express they desire to not want council housing in their estate it’s perfectly acceptable to the vast majority of people that I can guarantee you.

Empty_Space

Empty_Space wrote: »

Its a fact. Its the very reason they decided to integrate social housing.

Its the very reason people dont want council housing in there area. I will give you that for some people snobbiness come to play, but its also based on reality.

The background of some people who end up in social housing makes them and there children more risky to cause trouble in an area. Srry if I hurt anyones feelings.

No that's not fact. That's bias & discrimination in your head.
The reason some old council estates had a bad name, was because of a few problem families.
There are problem families in all estates, I hate to burst your snobby bubble, but that's a fact.

Kairi Witty Hitter

Kairi Witty Hitter wrote: »

It is proven fact that’s what it is. Just look at council estates and that’s all tbe proof you need.

I don’t see any reason a person can’t express they desire to not want council housing in their estate it’s perfectly acceptable to the vast majority of people that I can guarantee you.

Do you mind putting in a link to where this proof is?
I don't believe you can, it is not a proven fact.
Yea, peoole can say they don't want council housing near them, but they must also realise that others can call them out for exactly what they are. Snobs & discriminating against people less off than themselves.

AulWan

Kairi Witty Hitter wrote: »

I don’t see any reason a person can’t express they desire to not want council housing in their estate it’s perfectly acceptable to the vast majority of people that I can guarantee you.

No, it's fine, you can express whatever you want, as long as you're also fine with other people knowing you're a complete snob (and that's the politest term for it.)

/snɒb/
noun
noun: snob; plural noun: snobs

a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.

Empty_Space

bubblypop wrote: »

No that's not fact. That's bias & discrimination in your head.
The reason some old council estates had a bad name, was because of a few problem families.
There are problem families in all estates, I hate to burst your snobby bubble, but that's a fact.

Finally you just proved me right.

A few problem families. As I have said numerous times I dont think all social houses are bad but you have a much greater chance of getting these problem families in a social house.

Did a fancy non council estate on the southside get a bad name due to a few problem families?, I rest my case.

Cyrus

bubblypop wrote: »

No that's not fact. That's bias & discrimination in your head.
The reason some old council estates had a bad name, was because of a few problem families.
There are problem families in all estates, I hate to burst your snobby bubble, but that's a fact.

If you want facts the facts are is that there is far more crime in clondalkin compared to Blackrock

The chances of having anti social behaviour in clondalkin is higher

The amount of council houses in clondalkin is higher

Estates with council houses are more likely to have ‘problem’ families

Empty_Space

Empty_Space wrote: »

Finally you just proved me right.

A few problem families. As I have said numerous times I dont think all social houses are bad but you have a much greater chance of getting these problem families in a social house.

Did a fancy non council estate on the southside get a bad name due to a few problem families?, I rest my case.

What are you talking about? There are a few problem families in a lot of estates, private or council.

You are a snob , & cannot see it.
You are basically saying people with less money than you are more anti social, can you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Cyrus

bubblypop wrote: »

What are you talking about? There are a few problem families in a lot of estates, private or council.

You are a snob , & cannot see it.
You are basically saying people with less money than you are more anti social, can you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Would you argue against the assertion the more affluent an area the less crime there is ?

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Would you argue against the assertion the more affluent an area the less crime there is ?

Not necessarily.
Completely depends on what type of crimes.

woohoo!!!

bubblypop wrote: »

Not necessarily.
Completely depends on what type of crimes.

Yep, the guys in suits and driving fancy cars bankrupted this country, 100s of thousands forced to emigrate but yes it's those nasty social housing folk that we have to keep an eye on.

My own estate is a mix of private, affordable and social. There's been a mix of private and social purchases in recent times. No big anti social issues.

anewme

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Yep, the guys in suits and driving fancy cars bankrupted this country, 100s of thousands forced to emigrate but yes it's those nasty social housing folk that we have to keep an eye on.

My own estate is a mix of private, affordable and social. There's been a mix of private and social purchases in recent times. No big anti social issues.

I drive a fancy car and work in a corporate office.

I pay huge taxes as do many others like me.

It's not a crime to live in or want to live in a nice area.

Your post smacks of reverse snobbery.

woohoo!!!

anewme wrote: »

I drive a fancy car and work in a corporate office.

I pay huge taxes as do many others like me.

It's not a crime to live in or want to live in a nice area.

Your post smacks of reverse snobbery.

No, I'm pointing out that white collar crime had a huge impact but gets nowhere near the same stigma as people in social housing. FWIW I did drive a BMW but it had to go as the children came along, I still miss her

anewme

woohoo!!! wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out that white collar crime had a huge impact but gets nowhere near the same stigma as people in social housing. FWIW I did drive a BMW but it had to go as the children came along, I still miss her

The difference is, harsh as it may seem, white collar crime does not impact you directly.

Having to live with scramblers, horses, quad bikes does, skangers hanging round does.

I have friends living in Adamstown who have terrible problems with anti social gangs.

Colking

AulWan wrote: »

Which is exactly WHY social housing should never be built in that way again, and should always be mixed in with private, affordable, and privately rented estates.

Social housing is not always a disaster and doesn't always mean anti-social tenants.

I am a private owner who lives in a mature private estate with all of the above, and there are have been no increases in anti-social behaviour that I have seen, from the houses within the estate that have been purchased by the Council.

It can and does work.

You haven't actually taken the time to understand the complaints have you ? I'd advise you to look into the matter a little further, rather than rushing to paint everyone with the nimbyism paintbrush.

Varta wrote: »

As I understand it the residents were promised a mix of social and affordable. Now it's 100% social. Lots of people renting apartments there would like to buy affordable. Doesn't seem fair to only build social.

Spanish Eyes

bubblypop wrote: »

No that's not fact. That's bias & discrimination in your head.
The reason some old council estates had a bad name, was because of a few problem families.
There are problem families in all estates, I hate to burst your snobby bubble, but that's a fact.

I don't think you understand that those of us who scrimped and scraped to buy a house under our own steam do not relish the idea of others living next door who didn't have to do that at all, just have a few kids and you're grand, here's the key.

It is normal to resent an immediate occupation of a house with no deposit, no mortgage etc. compared to those who have to pay through the nose.

Perfectly normal IMV.
,

woohoo!!!

anewme wrote: »

The difference is, harsh as it may seem, white collar crime does not impact you directly.

Having to live with scramblers, horses, quad bikes does, skangers hanging round does.

I have friends living in Adamstown who have terrible problems with anti social gangs.

Of course, and the state agencies need to step up, deal with those issues and intervene to stop younger kids to follow in their footsteps. A complicated issue that the state has largely failed on.

Eric Cartman

woohoo!!! wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out that white collar crime had a huge impact but gets nowhere near the same stigma as people in social housing. FWIW I did drive a BMW but it had to go as the children came along, I still miss her

insurance / claim fraud is technically white collar and we've been clamping down on it pretty heavily, turns out most of it is being done by the same social groups, who would have known.

woohoo!!!

Eric Cartman wrote: »

insurance / claim fraud is technically white collar and we've been clamping down on it pretty heavily, turns out most of it is being done by the same social groups, who would have known.

Which is good. Have you a link re certain social groups?

woohoo!!!

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I don't think you understand that those of us who scrimped and scraped to buy a house under our own steam do not relish the idea of others living next door who didn't have to do that at all, just have a few kids and you're grand, here's the key.

It is normal to resent an immediate occupation of a house with no deposit, no mortgage etc. compared to those who have to pay through the nose.

Perfectly normal IMV.
,

I don't resent those on our estate, some of whom I know, whether their house was affordable or social and no I'm not some morally superior person, it just doesn't cross my mind to bother me.

Spanish Eyes

woohoo!!! wrote: »

I don't resent those on our estate, some of whom I know, whether their house was affordable or social and no I'm not some morally superior person, it just doesn't cross my mind to bother me.

Fine, and that's a good thing from you. I would totally resent a neighbour who had the same house as me and didn't have to pinch and scrape to get it.

I think that would be the view of most people who have to mortgage to buy really.

I think people are afraid to say it. So I just did. Kill me now!

AulWan

There is plenty of anti-social behaviour in all areas of Dublin.

I don't particular care to slap a label on any particular area over the other, especially areas I have never personally lived in, but no area is untouched.

If you want to talk about the wealthier suburbs, have you read about the behaviour of the rugger buggers from the fee paying schools lately? Little ****s.

I've often heard it said, the junkies and the small time dealers live in the council estates, while the money behind it, the big boys, the importers and the distributors all live in much more salubrious surroundings.

So, pick your class of criminal.

woohoo!!!

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Fine, and that's a good thing from you. I would totally resent a neighbour who had the same house as me and didn't have to pinch and scrape to get it.

I think that would be the view of most people who have to mortgage to buy really.

I think people are afraid to say it. So I just did. Kill me now!

I was actually more resentful of the family that bought a few doors down around 2014 for a good bit less than I. But that's just dumb luck re timing.

woohoo!!!

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Fine, and that's a good thing from you. I would totally resent a neighbour who had the same house as me and didn't have to pinch and scrape to get it.

I think that would be the view of most people who have to mortgage to buy really.

I think people are afraid to say it. So I just did. Kill me now!

Double post.

anewme

AulWan wrote: »

I've often heard it said, the junkies and the small time dealers live in the council estates, while the money behind it, the big boys, the importers and the distributors all live in much more salubrious surroundings.

So, pick your class of criminal.

Now you know right well that's not true. The big Drug Lords wear Rolexes, drive Porsches and live in corpo/ council houses or a step above.

Clondalkin / Lucan typical example.

Spanish Eyes

The D4 or SCD types do not need help. They are and always will be ok.

The rest of us are cannon fodder really. I do realise that there are apartments in Dundrum by the shopping centre, paid for by us. Who are they assigned to I wonder.

Honestly it is like the Chapelizod thread. If you are low paid worker fine. If you are a dolie, with six kids, not so fine.

Prime areas are for purchasers. IMV.

AulWan

woohoo!!! wrote: »

I don't resent those on our estate, some of whom I know, whether their house was affordable or social and no I'm not some morally superior person, it just doesn't cross my mind to bother me.

Same.

AulWan

anewme wrote: »

Now you know right well that's not true. The big Drug Lords wear Rolexes, drive Porsches and live in corpo/ council houses or a step above.

Clondalkin / Lucan typical example.

Don't presume to tell me what I know or don't know.

Spanish Eyes

Can people be honest here.

Those who work hard and build up a deposit, sweat for a mortgage approval and all that, then next door get a key with nothing to do really.

Treppen

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

There is no way the drop is that high.

So where do you build them then? Under the sea? On the moon?

Ronan Lyons says empty Army Barracks, Bus Depots, Industrial Estates...

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2017/02/06/how-to-build-enough-homes/

anewme

AulWan wrote: »

Don't presume to tell me what I know or don't know.

Youd think you are the only one who grew up in a Council Estate.

Anyone with 50k cash to spend on a car/ watch is not just a junkie.