Last of the Summer Wine

Murph_D

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Saw that on Strava and first thought was I was looking forward to seeing your log update. Hell of a session D. Very impressive. Seems like you handled it pretty well although you didn't really go into much detail?

Cheers, P. I'm kind of conscious that I sometimes go into too much detail! To be honest, this felt exactly as it should - comfortably hard - and while I might have had some doubt during the first one, which always feels the hardest for me, by the second I knew I'd be seeing it out without too much drama. HRR was a bit high in the last one, but I knew I was overcooking it at that stage and didn't really care!

The strides afterwards were a bit annoying, but no issue.

Swashbuckler

Not unusual for the first rep to feel harder than expected. I cant recall the last time I did a session that didn't have me slightly questioning myself after the first rep.

FYI you don't go into too much detail. Its one of the reasons your log is so interesting. The flipside is the more detail you give the more analysed your training gets!

Great session

TbL is quaking in his bright green boots I'd say

Murph_D

Agree re the first rep - I suppose if the pace is what it should be, it's a shock to the system initially. Amazing how the system adjusts for the next one, really. Yes, enjoyed that tempo session. And I haven't forgotten your list of tempo suggestions. Might swap one or two into the schedule in coming weeks now that it's bedding in.

Murph_D

Week 6 cont.

Sat 27 Feb

13k easy @ 5:18 (69% HRR)

First run in a good while with a bit of company, which was great for the day that was in it. A glorious spring morning for a Docklands tour. Showed C a few shortcuts.

Sun 28 Feb

10 miles easy on the North and South Circular Roads. Another fine morning. Half the world out sitting in the sun and strolling around in shorts. In February. :eek:

Halfway through the 12-week plan now. Definitely feeling the benefit of the work that’s been put in over the past while.

Week 6: 414 mins
Easy/Rec: 334mins (81%)
Moderate/Hard: 80 mins (19%)

This week: 76k (47m)
This month: 295 (183)
This year: 627 (390)

ThebitterLemon

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Not unusual for the first rep to feel harder than expected. I cant recall the last time I did a session that didn't have me slightly questioning myself after the first rep.

FYI you don't go into too much detail. Its one of the reasons your log is so interesting. The flipside is the more detail you give the more analysed your training gets!

Great session

TbL is quaking in his bright green boots I'd say

I have the flip flops ready

TbL

Murph_D

Lots of busy logs at the moment, which is wonderful.

JD5k Week 7/12

Into Week 7, which is the first of six weeks constituting the full phase IV of the JD plan. It will be interesting to see if the recent feeling of strength continues, or will it dissipate as the intensity of the workouts increases? Or if the increase in intensity is sustainable - I’m already questioning one or two of them (hopefully in a good way) and have already modified this week’s speed session. Only one midweek session this week as I have agreed to help out one of my favourite pacees at the weekend in a 5k effort, so won’t do a workout the day before (I’ve gotten into a Weds/Fri habit for these ones, and it’s too late in the week already to change). But the 5k pacing will provide some stimulus too, just at closer to MP effort.

Mon 1 Mar

Rest.

Tue 2 Mar

8.9k easy. No watch, just enjoying a fine afternoon. Legs feeling good.

Wed 3 Mar

Speed: 5 x 1k (400m jog recovery) + strides

I tend not to study the nitty grittiest parts of a plan before doing it. I try to understand the philosophy and science first (the helicopter view), then maybe try to get to grips with what the phases are trying to achieve (the bird’s eye view), before worrying about the detail in the individual workouts (the close-up view, to continue my half-assed classification system). So while I’d usually have a broad expectation of what a session is going to entail, I often don’t look at what’s actually in it until the night before or even minutes before doing it.

So I was not totally surprised to have missed (until now) that the Phase IV speed sessions have a 6k volume - today’s spec was 6 x 1k at I pace (a target of 4:07 per rep). It’s rare that I would do a speed session with more than 5k in repeats, so I decided 5 x 1k would be enough today. Especially as it would be on an up and down route. I may get more adventurous as the weeks progress, but only if I continue to feel like I’m still making good overall progress.

Splits (target 4:07)

4:10
4:02
4:06
4:10
4:35

While that last one looks like a total blowup, it was mostly uphill, so I’m happy that the effort was good there, and take comfort in the average of the other four being bang on the target. So a good afternoon’s work. Nice weather again today, a little cooler than yesterday which is always welcome for this kind of work. As usual, I found the first quite a challenge, even though it was an overall descent - there were plenty of bumps to keep me guessing about how hard to push it. Settled well into the next two. I was walking the first part of the 400m recoveries, skyblue style. Rep four had a good long drag with some sharp uphills, followed by a descent steep enough to need a few touches on the brakes. I did feel gassed during the fourth recovery but I’m pretty confident I’d have knocked out the last one more consistently on flatter ground. Short recovery then before hitting the strides - just counting steps - 15 to accelerate, hold for 30 (40 for the last three), 15 to decelerate. Then the welcome cooldown jog back home.

Enjoyed that. Nice work when you can get it.

This week: 21k (13 m)
This month: 21 (13)
This year: 649 (403)

Laineyfrecks

Nice session;)

God I could really do with taking a leaf out of your book! I get my plan for the week put the sessions into my watch then just press go that morning/afternoon.

Murph_D

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Nice session;)

God I could really do with taking a leaf out of your book! I get my plan for the week put the sessions into my watch then just press go that morning/afternoon.

Well, your sessions are custom designed so that's probably OK! I think any book plan can and should be modified if necessary (the less the better, mind).

Laineyfrecks

Murph_D wrote: »

Well, your sessions are custom designed so that's probably OK! I think any book plan can and should be modified if necessary (the less the better, mind).

Yeah true, I've never followed any plans from a book, my 1st ever plan was the boards plan then for his sins S has been doing my plans since. I have been a bit more inquisitive the last while in regards to why I do certain sessions etc & S explains very well the reasoning behind them. I do think I am someone who benefits from being mentored, I like that I can just put the sessions into my watch & completely trust what I am been given, plus it holds me accountable to someone else:)

Dubh Geannain

I know we're following different plans but I was due to move onto JD800m 7/12 this week myself. I had a slip in the sessions a couple of weeks ago where I threw in the February Hill challenge instead of a repeats session but I kind of don't want to miss out on the last rep session on phase 3 so am thinking of doing one more phase 3 week this week, so it'll become 7/13 for me. I assume you wouldn't think there's much harm in that?

Also, what's your plan into phase 4? Are you going to follow though to the end with no race or TT efforts replacing a session here and there?

So while I’d usually have a broad expectation of what a session is going to entail, I often don’t look at what’s actually in it until the night before or even minutes before doing it.

Not a hope I'd manage that. I've had excitement and trepidation for a few days before some of the sessions.

BeginnerRunner

I like your "half-assed classification system" concept a lot!

Swashbuckler

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

I like your "half-assed classification system" concept a lot!

So did I actually. Resonated with me for sure. Depending on personality its actually a decent approach to not get too bogged down in the detail up front.

As for Laineyfrecks point I come from the same background with coaching/mentoring so I can definitely understand the benefits of not having to overthink things. I spent the bones of a year training myself and drove myself a bit demented trying to plan training. I think I work better when the thinking is taken out of the equation and I just execute what I'm told. Always nice to have a general sense of whats going on though.

I always admire the folks who plan their own training and make gains. It ain't easy that's for sure!

Murph_D

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

I know we're following different plans but I was due to move onto JD800m 7/12 this week myself. I had a slip in the sessions a couple of weeks ago where I threw in the February Hill challenge instead of a repeats session but I kind of don't want to miss out on the last rep session on phase 3 so am thinking of doing one more phase 3 week this week, so it'll become 7/13 for me. I assume you wouldn't think there's much harm in that?

Also, what's your plan into phase 4? Are you going to follow though to the end with no race or TT efforts replacing a session here and there?



Not a hope I'd manage that. I've had excitement and trepidation for a few days before some of the sessions.

No issue at all with the extra week, especially as (I assume) there is no organised event at the end of it (must take a closer look at your log).

There will be no tune up TTs in the final phase. Even if there was a race available I don’t think I’d do it - certainly not a 5k anyway. In the past I would maybe have slipped in a 1m or 2m if available (the club’s winter or summer league races, during normal times, for example). I hate racing 5ks probably more than any other distance so the fewer the better!

Murph_D

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Yeah true, I've never followed any plans from a book, my 1st ever plan was the boards plan then for his sins S has been doing my plans since. I have been a bit more inquisitive the last while in regards to why I do certain sessions etc & S explains very well the reasoning behind them. I do think I am someone who benefits from being mentored, I like that I can just put the sessions into my watch & completely trust what I am been given, plus it holds me accountable to someone else:)

There probably isn’t an athlete anywhere who wouldn’t benefit from some mentorship. While I like doing my own thing, I have a close group of running buddies and we do a good bit of training talk (and lately a lot of shoe talk) on WhatsApp and in person when we can. There’s a lot of discussion of method and I’ve benefitted a lot from the opinions and experiences and advice of others. These discussion also make us accountable to each other so it’s a good vibe. These runners are nearly all clubmates but met them all via boards a/r originally.

Your mentorship programme has been very interesting so far and I look forward to seeing what you produce when racing returns.

Murph_D

Swashbuckler wrote: »

So did I actually. Resonated with me for sure. Depending on personality its actually a decent approach to not get too bogged down in the detail up front.

As for Laineyfrecks point I come from the same background with coaching/mentoring so I can definitely understand the benefits of not having to overthink things. I spent the bones of a year training myself and drove myself a bit demented trying to plan training. I think I work better when the thinking is taken out of the equation and I just execute what I'm told. Always nice to have a general sense of whats going on though.

I always admire the folks who plan their own training and make gains. It ain't easy that's for sure!

Ultimately we all stand on the shoulders of giants. I think being coached is probably a better arrangement for most runners, especially with a coach like yours.

Murph_D

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Not a hope I'd manage that. I've had excitement and trepidation for a few days before some of the sessions.

I know what you mean. When I did that plan I was hanging on by my fingernails and some of those sessions were very daunting indeed. They definitely turned some sort of switch inside me and the end result was easily my best performance ever (even if I was nowhere near the medals!) I do hope you have a similar outcome. While the 5k sessions are tough, and some of them are very big too, I think the sheer intensity of the 800 training is in a different league.

Dubh Geannain

I'm still only hitting 30 MPW though But I must throw up an update on my log maybe next week as I move onto phase 4.

Murph_D

Week 7 cont.

Thu 4 Mar

11.3 k easy

Another watch-free easy one.

Fri 5 Mar

8.5k easy - again without the watch, just enjoying being out.

Sat 6 Mar

11.4k inc 5k @ M/steady (pacing)

I’m always delighted to be asked to pace, so when laura_ac3 invited me along to her 5k TT in St. Anne’s I signed up immediately - pacing her to a sub-7 in the inaugural Griffith Ave Mile was one of my favourite running moments of 2019. We warmed up with a mile and a half jog up and down the Avenue and a few strides (L likes to keep it simple). A quick strategy chat on the way over to the parkrun course: out at 25 min pace, picking it up in the second lap if all was well. We found the secret piece of green string marking the start line, counted down, and set off. The cold morning air had L breathing quite hard from early on, but the run went mostly to plan. I just tried to keep the pace steady, easing off here, pushing a little there, trying to help L to the final mile in one piece, knowing from past experience that she’s good at digging in when the going is tough, and finishing well if there’s anything left. And that’s what happened - 24:25 for the 5k, a super effort.

Sun 7 Mar

21.1k @ 5:35 (66% HRR)

Left the car charging near Glasnevin Cemetery and headed off on a circular route through Finglas, Ballymun, Santry, Whitehall, Drumcondra and Glasnevin (the NW quadrant of the 5k circle). Glorious morning, nice easy pace. Planning about 11 miles but took a few wrong turns, and towards the end I was at 12 miles approaching the Finglas Road. Suddenly realised it had been a year since Bohermeen - the last race, and the last pint in a pub. So in honour of that momentous anniversary I stretched the run out a bit. I even entered the Virtual Bohermeen afterwards - the club were very good about posting the HR strap I’d lost in the hall, so the least I could do was support the event. Didn’t bother paying extra for the medal, but ordered the bee-coloured bobble hat for my growing collection.

Enjoyable morning. The Northside was sparkling in the morning sun. Noticed afterwards that someone has named a Strava segment after Dermot Bannon's gaff - worst kept secret in the world!

Week 7: 419 mins
Easy/Rec: 351mins (83%)
Moderate/Hard: 68 mins (17%)

This week: 74k (46m)
This month: 74 (46)
This year: 702 (436)

Bungy Girl

Murph_D wrote: »

Noticed afterwards that someone has named a Strava segment after Dermot Bannon's gaff - worst kept secret in the world!

That's hilarious. I'd say his neighbours are driven demented with people wandering past for a nose every 5 minutes .

Murph_D

Bungy Girl wrote: »

That's hilarious. I'd say his neighbours are driven demented with people wandering past for a nose every 5 minutes .

I see he has installed frosted glass to thwart the gawkers!

API

Murph_D wrote: »

I see he has installed frosted glass to thwart the gawkers!

I don't even own a TV and I know his name, my sister brought me past his house last year and explained who he is.

Murph_D

API wrote: »

I don't even own a TV and I know his name, my sister brought me past his house last year and explained who he is.

Hope you had a good gawk.

API

Murph_D wrote: »

Hope you had a good gawk.

We're not used to having celebs in a D9 area

Murph_D

API wrote: »

We're not used to having celebs in a D9 area

I can think of a good few, actually!

Murph_D

JD5k Week 8/12

Week 8 - where is the time going?

Just looking over the remaining five weeks of Phase IV, it’s not that varied: 3-5 mile volume of tempos on the Tuesday or Wednesday, and that 6k of speedwork on the Thursday or Friday. As mentioned last week, I’ll be playing that speedwork by ear, probably limiting to 5k. And of course the 2-hour Sunday long run. I’m happy with the way things are progressing after the fairly difficult start when the body had to be shocked back into action. It seems to be responding quite well at the moment, although the prospect of doing 5k at race pace seems as daunting as ever, to be honest, and I am not looking forward to it at all. Which is the exact opposite of marathon training, when you can’t wait for the training to be over and the race to be underway. Or at least that’s the way I feel about it!

Mon 8 Mar

Rest.

Tue 9 Mar

10k easy @ 5:46 avg (70% HRR?)

Had a go at shotgun’s March challenge. As I mentioned on that thread, I didn’t enjoy this at all as I was glued to the watch for the whole run. I started very slowly, at the suggested 40 secs/k slower than regular easy. I found it very difficult to judge this pace evenly (although I wouldn’t a couple of months ago), and to step it up 5 secs/km was difficult as I couldn’t really discern any difference in the slower paces until I got to the second half of the run. Felt good to be at ‘fast easy’ at the end of the outing. Thought I hadn’t managed any bonus points but M sportingly gave me one for an unintentional -1 sec split difference, which was the result of a four second overshoot rather than any finesse! HRR was very high for this kind of run - possibly a bad read from the strap, or possibly from the tension of looking at the watch every 10 seconds.

Wed 10 Mar

11.3k with 3m @ T

Unlike the earlier part of the plan, the tempos no longer have any speed reps tagged onto the end of them, which I kind of miss already. It was a dirty morning, spitting rain from grey skies, as I set out, swinging by the hospital to collect a car key from my daughter. She’d lost it, of course. :rolleyes: I tried to put this out of my mind as I completed the warmup and hit the Royal Canal between Phibsboro and Broombridge for the tempo session. The weather was reminding me of what it always seemed to be like when, in my late teens and early 20s, I used to cycle this stretch to a summer job in a film processing factory in the industrial estate. I often used to arrive soaked to the skin, and once had to hang my trousers to dry in a hot air machine that was part of the production line.

Anyway, the tempo - the first km was a bit slow as I squelched my way along the canal, uphill and buffeted by a swirly crosswind. For the second km I had the benefit of a corpo worker who cycled out of the industrial estate and unwittingly paced me as far as Broombridge (he kept looking over his shoulder as if I was stalking him but I was just trying to keep an even pace). Left him at the bridge (where the mathematicians and other lovers of serendipity among you may know that William Hamilton scratched out the quaternion equation formula in a moment of inspiration while out for a walk). Turned then at the halfway point and coasted for a bit in the slightly helping wind, before digging in well for the final 2kms. Got a nice wave and compliment from a runner I’d passed on both the way out and the way back, and finished up at the old Boland’s flour mills. Jogged home, feeling strong. 21:36 for the 3 miles, against a 7:09-7:12 /mile target. HRR averaging 85% for the second half, which is also where JD wants it to be.

This week: 21k (13 m)
This month: 96 (59)
This year: 723 (449)

Murph_D

Thu 11 Mar

How’s this for an old man moment, and a great start to the day? I’m standing, pulling on my trousers and get my foot stuck in the second leg. End up crashing agains the wardrobe and land on my arse on the floor. My arse doesn’t have a lot of padding, so my tailbone gets a good whack. I laugh it off, but nearly black out a few minutes later, so I take a few moments to lie down and get over the shock/excitement.

I’m OK, but this is the kind of thing that previously has thrown my back out and had me in pain for weeks or even months. It’s a reminder of how easily you can be plunged into the injury abyss.

Slowly does it, D, and sit down when you’re dressing yourself!

10k recovery later in St. Anne’s Park, after visiting my 89-year-old mother on her birthday. I didn't tell her my story, but glad to be in one piece.

This week: 31k (19 m)
This month: 106 (66)
This year: 733 (456)

Laineyfrecks

Jaysus D you are blessed you didn't do any serious damage!! I agree prob best to sit on the bed from now on getting dressed;)

89 what a fine age, bet it was great to see her

ThebitterLemon

Murph_D wrote: »

Thu 11 Mar

How’s this for an old man moment, and a great start to the day? I’m standing, pulling on my trousers and get my foot stuck in the second leg. End up crashing agains the wardrobe and land on my arse on the floor. My arse doesn’t have a lot of padding, so my tailbone gets a good whack. I laugh it off, but nearly black out a few minutes later, so I take a few moments to lie down and get over the shock/excitement.

I’m OK, but this is the kind of thing that previously has thrown my back out and had me in pain for weeks or even months. It’s a reminder of how easily you can be plunged into the injury abyss.

Slowly does it, D, and sit down when you’re dressing yourself!

10k recovery later in St. Anne’s Park, after visiting my 89-year-old mother on her birthday. I didn't tell her my story, but glad to be in one piece.

This week: 31k (19 m)
This month: 106 (66)
This year: 733 (456)

You’re still dressing yourself...:)





Glad your ok!

TbL

Murph_D

Week 8 cont.

Fri 12 Mar

5 x 1200 (3 mins)

Down to the Port and the Terminal 10 ‘Brexit Track’. Another windy afternoon, which persuaded me against doing the reps on the long straight roads, as the upwind versions would be no fun at all. At least the 650m Terminal 10 circuit offers upwind and downwind stretches.

Told myself I only had to do four. Ignored the watch and hit the first rep, easing into it. We’d see where we ended up. Giving myself the option to sit out the last rep made the first four go past more quickly, oddly enough. I suspected the pace wasn’t as honest as last time out, and ended up doing the final one after all.

Splits (target 4:57)

5:12
5:11
5:06
5:13
5:10

These are a good bit slower than last time out. As that last one turned out the second fastest, maybe I knew all along I’d do all five and held back a bit. Still a bit sore after my senior moment yesterday, but probably still fair to say I wimped out of this one.

14.4k (9m) for the afternoon.

This week: 46k (28 m)
This month: 120 (75)
This year: 747 (465)

shotgunmcos

Still, you got it done. Even undercooked is better than nothing. These are the days when we build our mental tenacity!