2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

Overheal

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok, so for comparison of presidencies you have used a PR photo taken on an organised black civil rights march commemoration years ago vs a photo during the corona virus epidemic in a city with rampant looting and violent protests.

I fail to see how any comparison of a presidents popularity or performance could be drawn from these drastically different situations.

Failure in imagination, then:

This was one of the few, extremely rare (if ever else?) times where Trump was seen out walking on the streets.

Which is something Obama did frequently:

Obama was well respected and walked comfortably among the people. Trump, not so much. He won't even host an event unless it's a campaign event, which gives him the legal remit to screen who is allowed in (when a POTUS has a normal rally/town hall, its open to the public and non-discriminating)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqhyzvBQM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1tE2ue_Cpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lBDK69QboA

kowloon

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok, so for comparison of presidencies you have used a PR photo taken on an organised black civil rights march commemoration years ago vs a photo during the corona virus epidemic in a city with rampant looting and violent protests.

I fail to see how any comparison of a presidents popularity or performance could be drawn from these drastically different situations.

Wasn't that the time he went to a church for a PR photo of him holding a book?

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok, so for comparison of presidencies you have used a PR photo taken on an organised black civil rights march commemoration years ago vs a photo during the corona virus epidemic in a city with rampant looting and violent protests.

I fail to see how any comparison of a presidents popularity or performance could be drawn from these drastically different situations.

Pick a photo you want to represent Trump in a particular light, and lets see what a comparative one of Obama can be found.

I'll start with a photo from Obama's inauguration.



Why don't you post one from a similar situation showcasing Trump's experience.

Tired Gardener

osarusan wrote: »

The idea that you can boil such a huge spectrum of beliefs and practices down to any single question is far too simplistic.

I know this is going off topic somewhat.

I can see how that may seem the case, but remember that the political spectrum also covers authoritarianism and liberalism, both of which are not exclusive to either Left or Right. Left and Right can find commonality in these two areas... although they come to them from very different places.

The one thing that Left and Right will always differ on even when they are at the same extremes of authoritarianism or Liberalism is to do with wealth. Free health care Vs private health care, etc.

It may seem overly simplistic, but remember this is 'boils down to' view, so is designed to look at it from a very reductionist view.

A reductionist view of this will miss a lot of the nuances that are only natural when dealing with people. One of the major benefits of reductionism is that it allows researchers to look at things that can be incredibly varied and complex such as the human mind and behavior, and break them down into smaller parts that are easier to investigate. It allows researchers to focus on a specific problem. So, it does have its uses.

Regarding the upcoming election, I still think that Joe Biden is a weak candidate, he is just more of the same that the Democratic party tried with Hillary Clinton... his policies aren't groundbreaking, he is another old white man in a political environment where they are all too common. If he does win (which would be great if only for no more president Donald Trump), he isn't looking to really be that impactful. That being said after the chaotic 4 years that America has had, may be it could do with a breather, a chance to rest and heal.

America is a country with a lot of wounds that have not healed yet. No matter who wins, the country is not looking like it will be any less volatile.

I am now deeply weary of polls, after witnessing 2016, I doubt I'll put much faith into them ever again.

Sorry if this has come across as a bit of a stream of consciousness, just setting myself up for disappointment/frustration of having 4 more years of Donald Trump.

Tired Gardener

Tired Gardener wrote: »

I know this is going off topic somewhat.

I can see how that may seem the case, but remember that the political spectrum also covers authoritarianism and liberalism, both of which are not exclusive to either Left or Right. Left and Right can find commonality in these two areas... although they come to them from very different places.

The one thing that Left and Right will always differ on even when they are at the same extremes of authoritarianism or Liberalism is to do with wealth. Free health care Vs private health care, etc.

It may seem overly simplistic, but remember this is 'boils down to' view, so is designed to look at it from a very reductionist view.

A reductionist view of this will miss a lot of the nuances that are only natural when dealing with people. One of the major benefits of reductionism is that it allows researchers to look at things that can be incredibly varied and complex such as the human mind and behavior, and break them down into smaller parts that are easier to investigate. It allows researchers to focus on a specific problem. So, it does have its uses.

Regarding the upcoming election, I still think that Joe Biden is a weak candidate, he is just more of the same that the Democratic party tried with Hillary Clinton... his policies aren't groundbreaking, he is another old white man in a political environment where they are all too common. If he does win (which would be great if only for no more president Donald Trump), he isn't looking to really be that impactful. That being said after the chaotic 4 years that America has had, may be it could do with a breather, a chance to rest and heal.

America is a country with a lot of wounds that have not healed yet. No matter who wins, the country is not looking like it will be any less volatile.

I am now deeply weary of polls, after witnessing 2016, I doubt I'll put much faith into them ever again.

Sorry if this has come across as a bit of a stream of consciousness, just setting myself up for disappointment/frustration of having 4 more years of Donald Trump.

Biden may be more of the same but if I was American I would be voting for him. Who honestly wants another four years of Trumps bull****. Another four years of constant corruption, scandals and furthering the USA's slide into authoritarianism.

Tired Gardener

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Biden may be more of the same but if I was American I would be voting for him. Who honestly wants another four years of Trumps bull****. Another four years of constant corruption, scandals and furthering the USA's slide into authoritarianism.

I asked myself that same question when he was nominated as the Republican parties presidential candidate. I don't like being judgemental, but never underestimate stupid, especially in times of economic hardship.

America is a two party nation, and people seem to be very tribal about their political parties. They may not like their parties candidate, but will be very reluctant to vote for the opposite party. Basically Tribalism sucks.

Although it must be said that I did read recently in the Guardian that his core voter base is shrinking. Not sure how that will play out in the electoral college votes, as that is I think were this is won or lost.

Overheal

Section of Trump's border wall fell over in hurricane Hannah - max sustained winds 90 mph according to NOAA, Category 1 :rolleyes: you get shoddy engineering when you bullrush through the regulation and vetting process.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hyfwma/hurricane_hanna_blowing_over_trumps_mighty_border/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Igotadose

Overheal wrote: »

Section of Trump's border wall fell over in hurricane Hannah - max sustained winds 90 mph according to NOAA, Category 1 :rolleyes: you get shoddy engineering when you bullrush through the regulation and vetting process.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hyfwma/hurricane_hanna_blowing_over_trumps_mighty_border/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Post is gone. So far only have seen the rags stating part blew down - mirror, daily fail, daily miscaller. I'd hold up a bit for legitimate confirmation. Hilarious if true, though.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

Pick a photo you want to represent Trump in a particular light, and lets see what a comparative one of Obama can be found.

I'll start with a photo from Obama's inauguration.



Why don't you post one from a similar situation showcasing Trump's experience.

The crowd for trumps was smaller, but Obama 1 held the record for inauguration numbers, and if we look at this graph (methodology data attached also) trump outperforms other republican counterparts.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The crowd for trumps was smaller, but Obama 1 held the record for inauguration numbers, and if we look at this graph (methodology data attached also) trump outperforms other republican counterparts.

hmmm, i dont remember trump boasting that his inauguration was better attended than other republicans. I could have sworn he said it was the best attended of all time. and i could also swear we had people on here posting that he was right.

Igotadose

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

hmmm, i dont remember trump boasting that his inauguration was better attended than other republicans. I could have sworn he said it was the best attended of all time. and i could also swear we had people on here posting that he was right.

https://youtu.be/PKzHXelQi_A


Sean Spicer, we miss you.

osarusan

That discussion about the size of the croud at the inauguration was a real insight into Trump, at such an early stage.

He had won, the comments that ' But Obama had a bigger crowd' were the very exemplification of sour grapes. But instead of just soaking up the 'salty liberal tears' (or however the expression goes), Trump had to weigh in with his stupid 'No, my crowd was bigger' reponse.

An early example of how he cannot suffer any slight whatsoever, no manner how insignificant, and also his tendency to make very easily disprovable claims (which his supporters will defend in the most contorted manner).

ohnonotgmail

Igotadose wrote: »

https://youtu.be/PKzHXelQi_A


Sean Spicer, we miss you.

whatever happened to that clown? watching that you can see he doesn't believe a word he is saying.

Igotadose

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whatever happened to that clown? watching that you can see he doesn't believe a word he is saying.

Taught for awhile at Harvard, and was on "Dancing with the Stars." Hosts a political talk show now. So, typical political operative, stays 'visible' in the media waiting for some sugar daddy to call him with a job.

timsey tiger

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

hmmm, i dont remember trump boasting that his inauguration was better attended than other republicans. I could have sworn he said it was the best attended of all time. and i could also swear we had people on here posting that he was right.

Why not a high low for everybody else? I'm sure the American idiot could have a high estimate higher than Trumps if he wanted to.

ohnonotgmail

timsey tiger wrote: »

Why not a high low for everybody else? I'm sure the American idiot could have a high estimate higher than Trumps if he wanted to.

what?

Eric Cartman

timsey tiger wrote: »

Why not a high low for everybody else? I'm sure the American idiot could have a high estimate higher than Trumps if he wanted to.

I don't think anyone elses numbers were called in to question, hence the high low.

As explained in the table high was ticket sales (so likely lower turnout) and low was transport figures (so likely higher)

even the low estimate puts him higher than Clinton 2, and around the same as bush senior and jr.

The trump inauguration was not bigger as spicer claimed, but was not small / a failure / out of the ordinary for an inauguration crowd like many would choose to believe, especially when Obama term 1 is the record holder for a crowd at such an event.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't think anyone elses numbers were called in to question, hence the high low.

As explained in the table high was ticket sales (so likely lower turnout) and low was transport figures (so likely higher)

even the low estimate puts him higher than Clinton 2, and around the same as bush senior and jr.

The trump inauguration was not bigger as spicer claimed, but was not small / a failure / out of the ordinary for an inauguration crowd like many would choose to believe, especially when Obama term 1 is the record holder for a crowd at such an event.

he promised the biggest attendance, the best you've ever seen. he didnt get that or even close. that sounds like failure to me.

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't think anyone elses numbers were called in to question, hence the high low.

As explained in the table high was ticket sales (so likely lower turnout) and low was transport figures (so likely higher)

even the low estimate puts him higher than Clinton 2, and around the same as bush senior and jr.

The trump inauguration was not bigger as spicer claimed, but was not small / a failure / out of the ordinary for an inauguration crowd like many would choose to believe, especially when Obama term 1 is the record holder for a crowd at such an event.

Classic. You have created an argument nobody raised and then proved yourself correct.

Nobody claimed it was the smallest ever. Trump claimed it was the biggest ever. So Trump was wrong, and openly lied about it. That you are still trying to defend it shows how unwilling you are to see any flaws.

There was nothing wrong with the crowd size, the crowd size is utterly irrelevant. He won the election, it is based on voters and the EC, not on a crowd that turns out on a cold wet January day!

But it lay down a clear maker, along with he's abrasive and almost apocalyptic speech, as to what lay in store. A man that was so easy to get at. A WH so eager to please that there was no one willing to curb his excesses. A WH that would openly lie and then distort the original lie to try to defend something that never happened.

Beasty

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