2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

doggerland

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

when has biden pushed "defund the police" or encouraged rioting?

I'm not aware of him saying it, but his base in the Dem party are. I think you'd have to be naive to think that he'll be the real president. It'll be his VP and the top brass of the Dem party calling the shots.

doggerland

KiKi III wrote: »

The riots are already old news, while people are still dying from covid in their thousands.

That's old news too tbh. Watch the latest AllGasNoBrakes, talk to American friends. People don't care as much as I thought they would.

ohnonotgmail

doggerland wrote: »

I'm not aware of him saying it, but his base in the Dem party are. I think you'd have to be naive to think that he'll be the real president. It'll be his VP and the top brass of the Dem party calling the shots.

when has the democratic party pushed "defund the police"? you are just throwing out nonsense and hoping that some of it sticks.

doggerland

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

when has the democratic party pushed "defund the police"? you are just throwing out nonsense and hoping that some of it sticks.

... yes I'm certain my posts, in a niche Irish forum, are part of a dirty tricks campaign...

But ok, here's AOC

“Defunding police means defunding police,” said Ms Ocasio-Cortez. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools”.

I can't post links but it's easily searchable

Leroy42

THe DNC are not encouraging Rioting, that is just the line that Trump is pushing. Biden is not looking to defund the police, even Chris Wallace of Fox debunked that one in real time with Trump.

Trump obviously has committed base that will stick with him no matter what. On top of that there is the GOP voters that will vte for any candidate once R is beside their name (and that also holds true for Dems).

But neither of them are enough to win an election. He lost the popular vote the last time to a massively divisive DNC candidate. Biden is many things but decisive is not one of them. Vanilla is probably the best describe him. He won't energise voters, but he won't alienate them.

Trump won due to tiny margins in swing states. Can he repeat that when he is now in a very different place? He is no longer the outside looking to shake things up. He appears to have to policy agenda. He appears to have achieved very little of substance during this term.

I can certainly see why his supporters will vote for him, but can't see any reason for floating voters to vote for him.

Carfacemandog

doggerland wrote: »

That's old news too tbh. Watch the latest AllGasNoBrakes, talk to American friends. People don't care as much as I thought they would.

Trump cancelled the republican national convention in Florida just yesterday and is now scrambling to change tact and encourage masks, while Americans now find themselves effectively banned from many countries until further notice due to his handling of it.

Hardly 'old news'.

doggerland

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Trump cancelled the republican national convention in Florida just yesterday and is now scrambling to change tact and encourage masks, while Americans now find themselves effectively banned from many countries until further notice due to his handling of it.

Hardly 'old news'.

*shrug* Him making a shambles of it doesn't counter anything I said. People in general, do not seem to care.

WrenBoy

Leroy42 wrote: »

THe DNC are not encouraging Rioting, that is just the line that Trump is pushing. Biden is not looking to defund the police, even Chris Wallace of Fox debunked that one in real time with Trump.

Trump obviously has committed base that will stick with him no matter what. On top of that there is the GOP voters that will vte for any candidate once R is beside their name (and that also holds true for Dems).

But neither of them are enough to win an election. He lost the popular vote the last time to a massively divisive DNC candidate. Biden is many things but decisive is not one of them. Vanilla is probably the best describe him. He won't energise voters, but he won't alienate them.

Trump won due to tiny margins in swing states. Can he repeat that when he is now in a very different place? He is no longer the outside looking to shake things up. He appears to have to policy agenda. He appears to have achieved very little of substance during this term.

I can certainly see why his supporters will vote for him, but can't see any reason for floating voters to vote for him.

I agree with most of that especially the fact Trump is no longer the outsider or protest vote but I'm fascinated to see what happens to these riots and protests at the end of the year if Biden gets into office.

ELM327

doggerland wrote: »

... yes I'm certain my posts, in a niche Irish forum, are part of a dirty tricks campaign...

But ok, here's AOC

“Defunding police means defunding police,” said Ms Ocasio-Cortez. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools”.

I can't post links but it's easily searchable

AOC is another reason to vote for Trump. Keep her and her ilk as far away from any sort of responsibility/power until she grows up

Carfacemandog

doggerland wrote: »

*shrug* Him making a shambles of it doesn't counter anything I said. People in general, do not seem to care.

Oh but they do. If they didn't he wouldn't be desperately trying to do a 180 on the whole 'hoax' and anti mask/shutting down functions and events stuff.

doggerland

ELM327 wrote: »

AOC is another reason to vote for Trump. Keep her and her ilk as far away from any sort of responsibility/power until she grows up

Pretty much the reason I see Trump winning. When you have senior politicians talking about getting rid of the police, while cities are burning... Well it tends to become a voting factor!

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Oh but they do. If they didn't he wouldn't be desperately trying to do a 180 on the whole 'hoax' and anti mask/shutting down functions and events stuff.

Keep telling yourself that. Got an email this morning from our sister team in the states. The site director hosted a big bbq at his place for all the staff. They're not far from the new hotspots. Lots of pics, looks like everyone had fun. No masks, no distancing. All ancedotal of course on my part.

weisses

ELM327 wrote: »

AOC is another reason to vote for Trump. Keep her and her ilk as far away from any sort of responsibility/power until she grows up

You should have taken the same stance 4 years ago at the current white house occupant ....

ancapailldorcha

ELM327 wrote: »

AOC is another reason to vote for Trump. Keep her and her ilk as far away from any sort of responsibility/power until she grows up

Why? What sort of damage do you think she'd do? It's not as if Trump supporters care about dignity, compassion, the Amercian public, national debt or even the democratic process.

Danzy

doggerland wrote: »

Pretty much the reason I see Trump winning. When you have senior politicians talking about getting rid of the police, while cities are burning... Well it tends to become a voting factor!



Keep telling yourself that. Got an email this morning from our sister team in the states. The site director hosted a big bbq at his place for all the staff. They're not far from the new hotspots. Lots of pics, looks like everyone had fun. No masks, no distancing. All ancedotal of course on my part.

AOCs views resonate with young middle and upper class activists. Others would have very different positions.

Podge_irl

doggerland wrote: »

... yes I'm certain my posts, in a niche Irish forum, are part of a dirty tricks campaign...

But ok, here's AOC

“Defunding police means defunding police,” said Ms Ocasio-Cortez. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools”.

I can't post links but it's easily searchable

Ah yes, I forgot the entire Democratic establishment was controlled by a 30 year old freshman Congresswoman.

Carfacemandog

doggerland wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that. Got an email this morning from our sister team in the states. The site director hosted a big bbq at his place for all the staff. They're not far from the new hotspots. Lots of pics, looks like everyone had fun. No masks, no distancing. All ancedotal of course on my part.

And some people are having covid parties where they give prizes to anyone who catches it, because like in the example you gave some people are just absolute morons -https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/us/alabama-coronavirus-parties-trnd/index.html

Meanwhile Trumps approval has plummeted in the last 2 months, the economy is collapsing, record numbers of people have lost their job and are getting very little help from the Trump administration for it. And they can't even get a few weeks away from it due to all the coubtries they have been banned from - it's been a national humiliation to put it mildly.

If it wasn't hurting his chances this badly, he wouldn't be turning around now and suddenly encouraging masks while cancelling the venue for the biggest event of the Republican parties entire calendar.

You can try and tell yourself otherwise, but these are the facts.

doggerland

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ah yes, I forgot the entire Democratic establishment was controlled by a 30 year old freshman Congresswoman.

I was asked where Dems have endorsed defunding the police, I post a quote from a leading star of the party (probably one of the most famous among the newly political) but nah, that's not good enough. You must argue with your teeth.

Do you think the police in the US should be defunded? I think that's a pretty stupid stance anywhere tbh. If I transplanted my life (married, home owner) to a country with ongoing riots and violence, and senior politicans said we should defund the police, I'd think they'd have lost their minds and would seriously question anybody who was associated with them.

To a smaller extent, it's why I couldn't give any preference to SF here on them wanting to get rid of the SCC.

Timberrrrrrrr

doggerland wrote: »

I was asked where Dems have endorsed defunding the police, I post a quote from a leading star of the party (probably one of the most famous among the newly political) but nah, that's not good enough. You must argue with your teeth.

Do you think the police in the US should be defunded? I think that's a pretty stupid stance anywhere tbh. If I transplanted my life (married, home owner) to a country with ongoing riots and violence, and senior politicans said we should defund the police, I'd think they'd have lost their minds and would seriously question anybody who was associated with them.

To a smaller extent, it's why I couldn't give any preference to SF here on them wanting to get rid of the SCC.

You were asked where "the Dems" wanted to defund the police, you quoted a post from A DEM. One member doesn't speak for the whole political party.

doggerland

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You can try and tell yourself otherwise, but these are the facts.

I don't live in the US, don't care much outside of it being an interesting ongoing story.

I remain confident that he'll win. To put it mildly, I think that the inability to holiday in France this Summer, isn't going to be decisive factor you reckon it will be.

doggerland

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You were asked where "the Dems" wanted to defund the police, you quoted a post from A DEM. One member doesn't speak for the whole political party.

You're correct. I don't have links for every single Democrat politician saying it. Or anything else for that matter. Good talk.

Timberrrrrrrr

doggerland wrote: »

You're correct. I don't have links for every single Democrat politician saying it. Or anything else for that matter. Good talk.

fo you have links for 5 elected Democrats saying it?

doggerland

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

fo you have links for 5 elected Democrats saying it?

Can't post links, and I'm not your dog. Google the Minneapolis City Council members if you want. They've done the ultimate in defunding the police.

But somehow... I guess that doesn't count either.

Carfacemandog

doggerland wrote: »

I don't live in the US, don't care much outside of it being an interesting ongoing story.

I remain confident that he'll win. To put it mildly, I think that the inability to holiday in France this Summer, isn't going to be decisive factor you reckon it will be.

The quarter million plus dead by that stage and tens of millions already unemployed with little assistance is the more likely reason why he has gone from odds on favourite to stark underdog and seem his already low approval ratings nosedive, true. But being globally humiliated as a nation isn't exactly helping either.

ELM327

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You were asked where "the Dems" wanted to defund the police, you quoted a post from A DEM. One member doesn't speak for the whole political party.

You haven't posted a link to A PROMINENT DEM that has stated not to defund.

Timberrrrrrrr

doggerland wrote: »

Can't post links, and I'm not your dog. Google the Minneapolis City Council members if you want. They've done the ultimate in defunding the police.

But somehow... I guess that doesn't count either.

So that's a no, somehow I didn't think you would be able to.

Timberrrrrrrr

ELM327 wrote: »

You haven't posted a link to A PROMINENT DEM that has stated not to defund.

I haven't made any claims so why would I have to post proof to back anything up?

doggerland

Carfacemandog wrote: »

But being globally humiliated as a nation isn't exactly helping either.

In all my experiences of yanks, I can't say that their interest in what the world thinks of them comes to mind as a quality. Quite the opposite imo.

Irish are the world masters at that

doggerland

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So that's a no, somehow I didn't think you would be able to.

There's about 15 Dems on that council. They literally defunded the police.

Do you think defunding the police is a good idea? Be nice to see you answer a question for a change!

Igotadose

doggerland wrote: »

Can't post links, and I'm not your dog. Google the Minneapolis City Council members if you want. They've done the ultimate in defunding the police.

But somehow... I guess that doesn't count either.

Really? By proposing a ballot amendment that the city can vote on?
http://news.minneapolismn.gov/2020/06/26/city-council-advances-proposed-ballot-measure-asking-voters-to-create-a-new-department-of-community-safety-and-violence-prevention/

That is, *nothing's happened yet*. It's a reorganization. Of course, if you insist we can call what you posted a lie, but you can get away with being lazy on this thread once.


Oh, and per Wikipedia: "Municipal elections in Minnesota are nonpartisan"


FWIW, Camden NJ fired it's entire police department and is a better place to live. Being from NJ, I grew up knowing Camden was a terrifying crime-ridden town that you only went through on your way to/from Philadelphia. It's not that way anymore and a big part was the police department reform.


So, try something better than seizing on a word to represent everything about a political party.

doggerland

Igotadose wrote: »

So, try something better than seizing on a word to represent everything about a political party.

I vow in the future, I will not use what politicians say, or do, or propose, as a reflection on them or what their party represents

Does this apply to Reps too btw?