Greta Thunberg (Continued...)

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938975#Comment_117938975

People in favour of acting on climate change think they can have the same quality of life as before while doing so.

False. Most of the advocates for climate change are specifically saying that the current practices cannot be sustained. Whether that be the frequency and impact of air travel, the use of single person occupancy vehicles largely because of their convenience, eating meat at every meal, the use of single use plastics or fast fashion, they all are detrimental, and should be reduced where possible.

These same advocates are not suggesting everyone go back to living in caves or eating nothing but home grown food and never going on holiday as has been suggested on this thread that they are saying.

The argument that no one can advocate for any improvement unless they are living a 100% carbon neutral life is impractical, unrealistic, unhelpful and I suspect deliberately used to try to get people to shut up or to give people a way to dismiss their arguments.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939285#Comment_117939285

“Something” needs to be done, what that is seems to change every minute and with every activist.

Eamon Ryan warns of blackouts:

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/electricity-supply-will-be-tight-for-next-three-or-fours-years-says-minister-eamon-ryan-40893279.html

Pretty sure people’s attitude will change pretty quickly then.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938975#Comment_117938975

do you think our current lifestyles are sustainable? of course we have to change how we live, everything has to change or the planet is doomed.

Don't worry we are not going to change though, it doesn't win votes, people would prefer to go to war and fight over lessening resources.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948750#Comment_117948750

It should not be on the shoulders of activists to come up with a fully feasible plan. There are enough scientists, engineers, accountants, strategists throughout government and the agencies they control to do this, the activists are simply saying that action is needed.

As for people changing their minds if there are blackouts? What a short sighted assessment. This isn't like picking which movie to go with or what colour to paint a wall and the risk of being disappointed with the outcome, this is more like choosing to stop smoking, or deal with the health impacts should you not do so.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949727#Comment_117949727

You need to have a plan and be prepared for the consequences of that plan. The government will just bring in a green tax that won’t change anything.

Closing the peat burning power plant was a stupid idea, if they don’t have a replacement with backups to it. The result is the story above which won’t play well with the public. People will associate these things with green initiatives and power outages.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949908#Comment_117949908

Absolutely there needs to be a plan. And sometimes you need to push the envelope by committing to something before you know how it will turn out in the hope that it will make people look for and implement alternative solutions. Unfortunately it is too easy to stick with what is already in play if there is any way to do so.

This is a topic also that makes it very easy to point the finger and say what people are doing wrong, it's also very easy for 'status quo' operators whether that be industry players, lobbyists, whoever to muddy the water and talk about increased costs, lack of services, loss of opportunity or whatever as a consequence of change. A public who are still largely looking for an excuse to not have to consider meaningful change are a ready audience because it delays hard choices.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949991#Comment_117949991

The power issues in the UK are a result of high gas prices and calm weather meaning less wind generating energy. This is not a reliable power supply. You don’t shut down power plants when you don’t have a replacement for them, one that’s sustainable in any weather. High gas prices have resulted in energy providers in the UK shutting down. We should have kept the peat processing plant as a backup. How long does Eamon Ryan think it would take to set up these coastal renewable energy generators and where? Power outages during winter are not pretty, if you live in an apartment even less so.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950396#Comment_117950396

Fianna Gael signed Ireland up to the Paris Agreement. Fianna Fail were in support of that FG government when that happened.

Where is the meaningful action from either of the parties that have been in power since the state was formed or do they get a pass just because there is a convenient punching bag at hands in the Greens.

Why is it that the Greens get more stick for identifying a problem then other parties do for ignoring it?

I’m concerned about climate crisis, but I have to hold my hands up as being a bit of a hypocrite with my previous travel and consumer habits. However I say to Greta, keep up the good work, we may all be at least encouraged to relinquish some of our habits and ho a greener way.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950466#Comment_117950466

Meaningful actions have consequences, the weekend trips away would need to end, that impacts tourism, jobs and tax revenue. Every meaningful change has a cost. People agree things need to change but as soon as it impacts them suddenly it’s an issue.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950523#Comment_117950523

At least you admit it. I find it a bit rich being lectured to by someone travelling the world to events that could be attended by video call (Greta). There is no need to travel to these conferences.

It’s the same with Megan and Harry, big talk about the climate but flies to a polo match on his private jet. These people are getting patted on the back for saying the right things but won’t change their own habits, that’s for us plebs not the elite.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953043#Comment_117953043

Cutting back will always be for someone else to do, not me.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953076#Comment_117953076

Greta doesn't fly, she went to Berlin by train recently. Are you saying we shouldn't even travel by train?

you are right though, everything needs to change, but no government is willing to implement big changes and the people wouldn't have it anyway, which is why we'll just keep going until massive shortages and wars break out.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953160#Comment_117953160

The question is do you need to be there rather than just doing a video conference. COVID has made businesses re-evaluate the need for business travel already and the cost involved. You can dance around the issue but cheap flights are a huge impact on the environment. It’s the easiest target but would mean more expensive flights and job losses.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953240#Comment_117953240

some things are more important than growing the economy and jobs though. Does a world figure like Greta need to travel sometimes to these kinds of events? Sure she does, but she doesn't fly at least. Do you or I need city breaks every year? Probably not.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953508#Comment_117953508

Lead by example. You don’t physically need to be there.

Wibbs

One of the elephants in the room is the very nature of modern consumerist societies themselves. For the most part our great grandparents, even grandparents had little notion of environmentalism, but they were again for the most part significantly "greener" than we are today. Even if they were among the better off. They were less likely to buy so much new "stuff" and more likely to repair existing stuff or get it repaired. Hell, people would darn socks and patch clothes to keep them going. Now it's in the bin and buy a pack of five from tesco for a fiver, flown in from a sweatshop in Pakistan for your pleasure. If you bought a washing machine, or fridge in the 70's you would expect it to last a very long time and you could repair it if it failed. Nowadays the expectation is a few years and go off and buy a new one, because a) that's what you've come to expect to do and b) repair is either impossible due to lack of spares or too expensive and a new one is "cheaper".

Actually the right to repair is a biggie. Something strongly resisted by most consumer industries and their lobbyists and the lack of repair options is getting worse not better. The churn of the new for that dopamine hit and ever more "sealed for life" stuff. Compare taking apart and replacing components in the first apple iphone and a brand new one and they only came out in what '07? And how many phones has the average man and woman has since '07? Cars are similar. Yes they're more luxurious and safer, but much harder to repair outside of the official dealer network and the manufacturers make sure of that by requiring special tools and the like only available to their dealers. The end user is long out of the picture and the independents are squeezed out. When trains and aircraft and ships can last many many decades with upgrades if required yet the average car is largely done in one, something is wrong with that.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953530#Comment_117953530

So don't even use trains?

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953594#Comment_117953594

If needed but why not stream the event, no travel necessary. These are people shutting down train stations in protests but off I got to a green conference that could be done via video chat.

BorneTobyWilde

You have self sufficient people, here and there, but who is going to be the first self sufficient country? That for me is the key, we need to get to the point we produce all our own clean energy, and where we have zero fossil fuels needed.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953043#Comment_117953043

People living on a rainy Island might be a bit miffed about not being allowed to fly to another country

mickdw

Can anyone outline the situation re power supply at the minute.

The ESB have closed a couple of plants recently. Why were these closed if there is a shortage of supply while awaiting new plants?

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953851#Comment_117953851

The EU has been pushing for the peat plants to be closed for years but they are one of our few natural resources. Wind and solar are not dependable and need a backup. We should have built a hydro plant off the Shannon but good lock getting planning permission for that. All we have left is gas and coal imports that can fluctuate in price and availability. Eamonn Ryan talking about costal hydro power plants are years away and were never planned. It’s all bad planning or lack of any planning at all.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953829#Comment_117953829

We are net importers of food too. Surely we need to shake up what food we are producing because climate change will be causing shortages worldwide.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953946#Comment_117953946

Eamonn Ryan should be taken out and shot.

Close the peat plants before we can replace the electricity production. Closed Bord Na Mona peat production too. We are now importing Briquettes from Germany and loose peat from other EU countries.

How are Germany allowed to continue production to such a level that they can export?

Normal minded people need to stand up to this crap and ask the questions of our politicians. Are they going out to Europe and just being yes men to all the EU requests where others stand up or what's the story?

How can Ryan stand over a situation where peat is being imported into Ireland. If it's greener to transport peat a few thousand miles instead of 100 miles, something is not adding up.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954348#Comment_117954348

who was responsible for the closing of the peat plants? it was agreed in 2019 to close the plants, how is Eamon Ryan responsible for that when the Greens weren't in government?

it's amazing how you people blame Eamon Ryan and the Greens for things like this and the Paris Agreement and Carbon Taxes, when they didn't do any of it. Brilliant for the other parties too.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954348#Comment_117954348

If I were cynical, that sh1tshow that seemingly makes no sense may benefit certain interests.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954348#Comment_117954348

Irish politicians, and politicians in general, don't give a **** about you or I. Irish politicians going to Europe always agree to these things because they have one eye on getting a job in Europe once they get booted out of office in Ireland.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954610#Comment_117954610

Irish politicians are elected at least 3very 5 years for local, national or european offices. If you or anyone else doesn't like a particular one, they don't have to vote for them. If they don't like any of the candidates, they are free to run themselves, either as a member of a party or as an independent. Given this system, we have to accept that those in Dail Eireann are the ones the people of the country want to be there.

Politicians don't act on the environment because they don't think the electorate would accept the difficulties that might come with that. That is why someone like Greta deserves to be supported because she, or any of the other activists who are committed to the cause are creating a conversation that the public need to hear more so than the politicians.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954348#Comment_117954348

What do you think of FG and FF stance on environmental matters?

Do you think we should see emission reduction strategies being implement?