National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

wexfordman2

ED E wrote: »

Will NBI techs/contractors be given blanket site access under the contract or will it all be escort required? I can see the latter being messy.

Contractors will have access to enter facilities without requiring an escort.

Orebro

Is there a higher res picture of the rollout areas in the contract available? I'm right on the edge of two so can't make out which one I'm in!

NBAiii

I think I've figured out those map colours. If you look at the three green areas they are Galway, Limerick and Kilkenny. These (along with Carrigaline) were the first planned locations announced by NBI to an industry meeting at the end of 2019.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/broadband-plan-first-35-areas-to-get-high-speed-service-are-revealed-1.4107462

Obviously something went wrong with Kilkenny and to a lesser extent Limerick so Cavan was parachuted in as a replacement.

Cavan and Carrigaline are lilac, I suppose, on the map. I presume, therefore, that the other lilac areas were or still are the next in line.

I know NBI have been working on a design for Roscrea and it is another lilac on the map so would tally with that theory.

joe123

NBAiii wrote: »

From what I have seen so far it seems that they are going to build each deployment area in full, which may be several thousand premises, before moving on to the next.

Thanks for the detail really appreciate it.

Just on the bit quoted, so do you think those deployment areas marked on the map are still accurate?

I mentioned earlier while Galways green deployment area is largely accurate, it stops short of fully completing as far out corrandulla area in Galway. A lot of houses there are still pending survey.

Also I could have sworn I read somewhere NBI were not using any Open Eir infrastructure but from what you are saying they will be?

The Cush

Orebro wrote: »

Is there a higher res picture of the rollout areas in the contract available? I'm right on the edge of two so can't make out which one I'm in!

I haven't found a better map, could these boundaries be something that would have to be finalised during the network design phase?

johnnyboy08

Orebro wrote: »

Is there a higher res picture of the rollout areas in the contract available? I'm right on the edge of two so can't make out which one I'm in!

In the very same boat. Exchange in local village 2.5km away where neighbours Openeir fibre originates is in a different rollout area. Is there area correlation between OLTs and local exchanges? My area was surveyed in early May and status on the nbi website is marked as pending still so I'm concerned that the wait for fibre could be significant.

westyIrl

joe123 wrote: »

Also I could have sworn I read somewhere NBI were not using any Open Eir infrastructure but from what you are saying they will be?

NBI will be making significant use of OpenEir infrastructure to the tune of ~1 billion euro over the 25 years of the contract in terms of duct/pole rental, OLT colocation etc. Granted recent cuts announced by comreg to wholesale prices charged by the incumbent (OpenEir) may seriously trim this amount.

The Cush wrote: »

I haven't found a better map, could these boundaries be something that would have to be finalised during the network design phase?

That would make the most sense. Until these areas are surveyed in full and particularly where OLT serviceable areas overlap, they will naturally want to pick the route with most existing infrastructure and ease of installation.

Jim

NBAiii

joe123 wrote: »

Thanks for the detail really appreciate it.

Just on the bit quoted, so do you think those deployment areas marked on the map are still accurate?

I mentioned earlier while Galways green deployment area is largely accurate, it stops short of fully completing as far out corrandulla area in Galway. A lot of houses there are still pending survey.

Also I could have sworn I read somewhere NBI were not using any Open Eir infrastructure but from what you are saying they will be?

The map posted depicts rollout areas not deployments areas. It just so happens that some rollout areas such as Galway contain only one deployment area but many others contain more than one deployment area, rollout area 12, for example, comprises of five deployment areas. Again each deployment area will have its own OLT.

I think the rollout areas are just another method of tracking build progress and paying subsidies to NBI in that they will be paid when a deployment area is complete and then again when a rollout area is fully complete.

I would not be relying on the map for accuracy especially at the edges of areas. I have seen a Cavan deployment map and the one on the map posted here is not really accurate but it is very high level and likely meant to be more indicative than anything.

The open eir question has already been answered but, to reiterate, the vast majority of infrastructure used will be belonging to eir.

NBAiii

johnnyboy08 wrote: »

In the very same boat. Exchange in local village 2.5km away where neighbours Openeir fibre originates is in a different rollout area. Is there area correlation between OLTs and local exchanges? My area was surveyed in early May and status on the nbi website is marked as pending still so I'm concerned that the wait for fibre could be significant.

There is no correlation between NBI deployment areas (OLTs) and traditional eir exchange areas. NBI have selected certain eir exchange buildings to house equipment but the areas covered by such equipment might encroach on several traditional eir exchange areas.

Basically, NBI have decided to cover the country by using less OLTs, with each OLT covering a larger geographical area, whereas when eir built their rural fibre network they followed the old copper network model with more OLTs covering smaller areas.

The Cush

NBAiii wrote: »

I think the rollout areas are just another method of tracking build progress and paying subsidies to NBI in that they will be paid when a deployment area is complete and then again when a rollout area is fully complete.

I remember one of the Oireachtas Committee discussions with the Dept. about the 110 rollout areas, each would have about 5,000 premises for a total of approx 550,000 premises and payments were based on rollout progress

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: ... The contract, which has 1,500 pages, has strict obligations for them to show us their designs for each of the 100 areas of 5,000 premises throughout every part of the country and that must be proven before it is built.

Chairman: Who set the 100 areas?

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: We did. The Department decided we would look for these 100 areas of 5,000 premises because it would be the best way to chop up the payments. We pay by every area that is done.

Mr. Mark Griffin: The company will not have to get to the end of the 5,000 premises before connections can start.

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: The connections can start once the first 300 or 500 homes are done.

Chairman: They will have put in some of the network, and at the point when the block is done, the Department will give it a block payment for the work done to date and then pay it as connections happen after the event.

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: Exactly.

Source: PAC 28 Mar 2019

clohamon

Not a good look for landowners. IIRC there needed to be a special Act of the Oireachtas to ensure access to the Galway Mayo fibre duct.

https://twitter.com/dominic221/status/1320118151208730624

fergus1001

clohamon wrote:

Not a good look for landowners. IIRC there needed to be a special Act of the Oireachtas to ensure access to the Galway Mayo fibre duct.

absolute cnnnts are looking for money seen it before

listermint

fergus1001 wrote: »

absolute cnnnts are looking for money seen it before

Id imagine this is the case. People can do absolutely scummy things. And bleeding cash out of your neighbors is scummy. Because nbi won't be paying that.

rounders

Absolutely stand with the land owners. The ducts should only run on public property.

Landowners learned their lesson from having the last ducts run through their lands by the sounds of it.

I've seen it before where the ESB come out unannounced and drive through wet fields leaving large tracks and damaging crops with the excuse that they needed to access there poles. Also depending on how deep they put the ducts it can be a headache for the farmer if they are digging drains etc in the future and need to avoid ducts.

Orebro

rounders wrote: »

Absolutely stand with the land owners. The ducts should only run on public property.

Landowners learned their lesson from having the last ducts run through their lands by the sounds of it.

I've seen it before where the ESB come out unannounced and drive through wet fields leaving large tracks and damaging crops with the excuse that they needed to access there poles. Also depending on how deep they put the ducts it can be a headache for the farmer if they are digging drains etc in the future and need to avoid ducts.

Utter nonsense. I come from a farming background and know many farmers, all hold the ESB in the highest regard.

daraghwal

Orebro wrote: »

Utter nonsense. I come from a farming background and know many farmers, all hold the ESB in the highest regard.

I second that. Any experience we have had with them has been positive. Always let us know weeks in advance if they were planning work and if they do make a mess, which they did a few years because of emergency works in wet weather, they either rectify the issue they have caused or compensate for it. No questions asked.

TheSegal

daraghwal wrote: »

I second that. Any experience we have had with them has been positive. Always let us know weeks in advance if they were planning work and if they do make a mess, which they did a few years because of emergency works in wet weather, they either rectify the issue they have caused or compensate for it. No questions asked.

Exact same as above, never once had an issue with ESB even after emergency works on Christmas day where they couldn't give us notice. Great example of workers that do a job right

rounders

It's was KN Networks on behalf of ESB we've had issues with. They were doing upgrade works on the main high voltage pylons. Got no letter or call. Just left themselves in.

The normal ESB crew doing repairs after storms etc I've had no issues with

listermint

rounders wrote: »

Absolutely stand with the land owners. The ducts should only run on public property.

Landowners learned their lesson from having the last ducts run through their lands by the sounds of it.

I've seen it before where the ESB come out unannounced and drive through wet fields leaving large tracks and damaging crops with the excuse that they needed to access there poles. Also depending on how deep they put the ducts it can be a headache for the farmer if they are digging drains etc in the future and need to avoid ducts.

Absolute pony ESB phone you and are very conscious of lands. Having dealt with them several times they are very professional and sound.

Your one off sudden change in name to KN has no bearing on access courtesy.

And frankly If it's ducted at proper depths then the chances of access being required is multiple times less than equivalent pole infrastructure.

It's a money spin nothing more. Tbh I'd be on the side of a type of cpo for certain depths. You own the land not the mines beneath it. People stopping vital infrastructure like this for a clear pay off know what they are at

westyIrl

Totally annoying position to be in for people trying to get broadband. Agree that ESBN are a pleasure to deal with regards access, works etc. OpenEir plant not so imho...total pile of BS to get them to remove an old unused pole, came out and cut it with 2 foot sticking up out of the ground, complained, cut it level with the ground...told them to remove it proper ffs, PITA quite frankly. Cables fell from poles and left across fields for months that the cows chewed etc. Little respect for their access compared to ESBN. However the bigger question here is how a public service supply ended up crossing private lands without any wayleave for maintenance. Lands owned by original estate developer?

Jim

The Cush

clohamon wrote: »

Not a good look for landowners. IIRC there needed to be a special Act of the Oireachtas to ensure access to the Galway Mayo fibre duct.

https://twitter.com/dominic221/status/1320118151208730624

This very issue was raised in Committee last year

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_communications_climate_action_and_environment/2019-05-22/speech/155/

Deputy Eamon Ryan: ... The biggest risk is getting anything done across a field rather than down a road. The Eir poles are on the road network, by and large, at the edge of fields whereas the ESB network crosses fields. It is my understanding, having spoken to many of those involved in recent years, that the biggest problem will be getting the agreement of landowners. It is not that landowners will be discommoded in any way and I am sure that farmers like Senator Lombard would readily agree to a line going straight across his land

---

Senator Tim Lombard: Yes, absolutely.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: The downside risk that the ESB and others saw was that it might not be the case with all landowners. Any time one tries to do anything in Ireland, getting access to land can be problematic. Even though it would not take more than an hour or two to run a cable across a field, access could be an issue. What if we had tackled that issue and had got agreement from rural Ireland on it because this project will be so beneficial to rural Ireland? If we had tried to get people to co-operate in order to ensure that the ESB has no difficulty in getting across fields, would that have made a material difference? Am I right in my assessment that land access was probably the biggest challenge for the ESB? I am thinking of the scenario in John B. Keane's play, "The Field", and the notion that no-one can cross a person's land. Was that the biggest problem in terms of amalgamating the network so that there is a single set of poles? As Deputy Stanley pointed out, the ESB poles are probably in far better condition than the Eir poles. What stopped us using the ESB network as the preferred route?

baz9375

NBAiii wrote: »

The map posted depicts rollout areas not deployments areas. It just so happens that some rollout areas such as Galway contain only one deployment area but many others contain more than one deployment area, rollout area 12, for example, comprises of five deployment areas. Again each deployment area will have its own OLT.

I think the rollout areas are just another method of tracking build progress and paying subsidies to NBI in that they will be paid when a deployment area is complete and then again when a rollout area is fully complete.

I would not be relying on the map for accuracy especially at the edges of areas. I have seen a Cavan deployment map and the one on the map posted here is not really accurate but it is very high level and likely meant to be more indicative than anything.

The open eir question has already been answered but, to reiterate, the vast majority of infrastructure used will be belonging to eir.

Can you share anything on the Cavan deployment map at all?

I'm in Cloverhill, Co.Cavan and just wondering if the rollout date they've given of February is accurate?

Some press are saying that Cavan will see connections in 2020 however I cant see any Cavan Eircodes with Deccember date when I check the NBI website (only the Feb - April that my own Eircode give).

Do you think there'll be one go live date for all premises that have been surveyed together or will that be phased also?

Pique

On a slightly related note (seeing as how some people were advocating Starlink as a feasible alternative to the NBP), the Starlink Beta has been announced.

To join the beta test, called Better Than Nothing Beta, users must purchase all of the Starlink ground equipment for $499 and then pay a $99 monthly fee for active service.

westyIrl

called Better Than Nothing Beta

Must be a first for honest advertising in the sector. 20-40ms latency with further improvement promised is impressive.

Orebro

Let’s not start on Starlink in this thread folks...

StickyMcGinty

listermint wrote: »

East Wicklow where.?


Fibre Cable has to come to your physical building from the street by NBI.

Greystones

djd80

Hi All

I met some of the NBI guys running fibre up our road yesterday, they are running some underground sections which another overhead team will come and connect to when they are finished.

We are between Ballygarvan and Carrigaline in Cork and the NBI map says December 2020 to Feb 2021 for connection so things look to be broadly on track.

My question is around the physical connection into my house, Im trying to be organised now so that I dont have a delay in getting connected once its available.

I have a new build house, 3 years old and I ran a duct from the house to the nearest pole so thats all in place for them to pull the cable in.

The other end of the duct is presented in a smallish box on the side wall of my house, like a smaller ESB meter box.

In that box is a CAT6 cable which is going into the house.

Now my question is how do I get the fibre into the house with the minimal work!!

I dont really want them drilling through the wall where the duct is presented, its at a strange height to come into the house and is right next to the mains ESB cable on the outside wall and some sockets on the inside - not keen on taking the chance.

Does the fibre get connected to a box before the modem? I could easily get power to the box on my outside wall, leave the fibre box in there and connect to the CAT6 cable to present to the broadband modem?

Any thoughts?

fergus1001

Pique wrote:

On a slightly related note (seeing as how some people were advocating Starlink as a feasible alternative to the NBP), the

$99 jesus that's expensive

oscarBravo

djd80 wrote: »

Does the fibre get connected to a box before the modem?

Yes, the ONT.

I could easily get power to the box on my outside wall, leave the fibre box in there and connect to the CAT6 cable to present to the broadband modem?

Not going to happen. That miniature ESB box (standard design for a copper phone line) isn't remotely weatherproof enough for the task.

If you can easily get power to it, can you get a pull-rope to it instead that you could use to pull the fibre in to where the Cat6 is currently going?

djd80

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, the ONT. Not going to happen. That miniature ESB box (standard design for a copper phone line) isn't remotely weatherproof enough for the task.

If you can easily get power to it, can you get a pull-rope to it instead that you could use to pull the fibre in to where the Cat6 is currently going?

Thanks for the reply.

No the CAT6 is run through the house embedded in the walls and plastered over etc - cannot get the fibre pulled in that way unfortunately.

So really I'm seeing only a couple of options.

Take a chance and let them drill through the wall and figure out a way to make it look respectable on the inside.

Perhaps find a way of retrofitting that miniature box to make it weatherproof.

Lastly we have a 2 storey house and on the same wall but at the very top of the wall I have my Sky dish which has a small duct into the attic so I could bring the fibre up the outside wall and in there and have the ONT there on the inside.
Only question with that is how to do it wo make it look well, don't like the idea of a visible cable snaking up the side of the house.